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| New Video on Moynihan Station (1446924) | |
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| (1446924) | |
New Video on Moynihan Station |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Aug 18 21:30:41 2017 Courtesy of Prince Andrew: |
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| (1446926) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 18 21:40:03 2017, in response to New Video on Moynihan Station, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Aug 18 21:30:41 2017. I suspect it won't open, like Berlin's Brandenburg Airport or ESA. |
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| (1446963) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 19 06:30:31 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 18 21:40:03 2017. It'll open, and be a white elephant on day 1, just like the Oculus with its stores that have no customers to stay in business, except the IPhone store. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 21 07:47:45 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 18 21:40:03 2017. Is this actually under construction today? In other words, has it gotten materially past a promotional video and some silly ceremony? |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Aug 21 09:42:53 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 19 06:30:31 2017. Agreed. It needed to be between 7th and 8th avenues. But NY spent too much time dragging their feet instead of letting MSG move to The Farley Building and rebuild penn where it was. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Aug 21 10:45:59 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Aug 21 09:42:53 2017. Only does good for people getting off the southbound A/C.I see it already with that new concourse they just built. I wonder if Amtrak's has "gate dragons"? What about the 2 early AM Canada trains on track 5 where they give you the sheet you hand over to the passport agents at the border? Amtrak makes sure you have your documents before boarding. If you want NJ the new concourse is useless because your train could leave on tracks 1-4. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Aug 21 11:02:05 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Aug 21 10:45:59 2017. Exactly, a beautiful waste of taxpayer cash |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 14:18:53 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Aug 21 10:45:59 2017. If you want NJ the new concourse is useless because your train could leave on tracks 1-4Those are the tracks they are most likely to depart from. |
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| (1447263) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan Station |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Aug 21 15:40:40 2017, in response to New Video on Moynihan Station, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Aug 18 21:30:41 2017. Will this replace the current Penn Station, or is this an expansion of it? |
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| (1447266) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 16:11:10 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan Station, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Aug 21 15:40:40 2017. No, and no. It's a second concourse, and this does not expand what goes on at track level. Most of the tracks will be out of reach of this new concourse; they'll only be useful for westbound (southbound) Amtrak trains, and not even all that useful what with just one entrance point at each western end of the platforms.Imagine "expanding" Philadelphia's 30th Street Station into the post office across Market Street. That's what this project would be like. |
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| (1447274) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 21 17:40:07 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Aug 21 09:42:53 2017. According to the NARP Hotline:" The state is providing $550 million for the project, while $420 million is coming from Amtrak, the MTA, the Port Authority and a federal grant. Another $630 million is coming from private developers." $420M is about 150 worth of coaches that Amtrak could have used instead of pissing it away on this vanity project. God knows how much Andrew slashed from the MTA to come up with $560M, or from upstate projects. They could have started a low-budget commuter service between Saratogo and Albany-Rensellaer. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 21 17:48:17 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan Station, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Aug 21 15:40:40 2017. In Chicago terms, imagine sticking a new concourse over the tracks by Madison or by Van Buren to serve Amtrak trains at Union Station. The platforms stretch that far, but it would be stupid to tell everybody to schlep over there to board trains. They have a Madison Street entrance now, and once had something on the south side, but you don't tell intercity passengers to get on there, and build a Taj Majal. |
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| (1447277) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 21 17:57:25 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Aug 21 10:45:59 2017. Yes Amtrak has Gate Dragons. That's why it takes them so long to load trains, and they'd love to have their own palace to do it just like they have in Chicago and Washington.The Canadian check-in is a stupid exercise in futility and security theatre. It does not speed up the job CBSA does by a minute. VIA Rail does not do it in Montreal. At most other stations along the way, you simply get on. The conductors can check passports with the tickets if they want. What we have now Gate Agents impersonating Customs. If CBSA got a look at the nonsense, they'd laugh their heads off. The line starts forming over an hour before departure. In that time, you could take MN to Yonkers if you were closer to GCT, and sit down until the train comes. |
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| (1447278) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan Station |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Aug 21 18:10:45 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan Station, posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 21 17:48:17 2017. In Chicago terms, imagine using the original grand Union Station building as part of Union Station despite it being relatively inconvenient to actually boarding trains. Yes, it's pretty but it's hardly the most convenient way to get in. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan Station |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Aug 21 22:11:00 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan Station, posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 21 17:48:17 2017. YAWN. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan Station |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Aug 21 22:12:51 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan Station, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Aug 21 15:40:40 2017. Pretty much an expansion of the existing Penn Station. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Aug 21 23:23:26 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 21 17:40:07 2017. Even if we have 2 new tubes to NJ by the time this palace is built, the other 2 ancient ones have to close for rebuilding.So we have a new station (do we get additional tracks?) and still a 2 tube bottleneck to/from NJ. Am I missing something? |
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| (1447320) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 23:42:20 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Aug 21 23:23:26 2017. No additional tracks are specifically associated with this concourse that used to be a post office. |
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| (1447321) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 23:43:32 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 21 17:40:07 2017. $420M is about 150 worth of coaches that Amtrak could have used instead of pissing it away on this vanity projectOr some upgrades to the catenary wire. They keep putting those off. |
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| (1447354) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Aug 22 11:53:50 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 16:11:10 2017. Thank you. But I am not familiar with 30th St. station. |
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| (1447355) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan Station |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Aug 22 11:54:22 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan Station, posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 21 17:48:17 2017. Thank you. Now I have a better idea. |
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| (1447360) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 22 13:02:24 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Aug 22 11:53:50 2017. Well, the only parallel I can think of in Chicago would be if they put in a new Union Station concourse in the buildings on the southeastern corner of Jackson Boulevard and Clinton Street. (That would mean getting rid of the parking garage.) |
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| (1447361) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Aug 22 13:03:12 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 22 13:02:24 2017. Good analogy. |
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| (1447362) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 22 13:03:35 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Aug 22 11:53:50 2017. Also, what Joe V. said is a good sense of what's going on. However, the Farley post office building in NYC is already there. |
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| (1447364) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Aug 22 13:19:06 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 16:11:10 2017. I don't disagree that this is not the most useful of projects, but it will reach a large majority of the tracks at Penn. (5-21) |
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| (1447365) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Aug 22 13:20:42 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 18 21:40:03 2017. BER is going to open. (Absurdly late, certainly. but it is practically finished.) |
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| (1447366) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Aug 22 13:22:50 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Aug 21 23:23:26 2017. Once the new tubes open, one tube at a time will be shut for rebuilding, so at least there will be 3 tunnels open to NJ. That said, this changes nothing at track level... |
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| (1447368) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by pragmatist on Tue Aug 22 13:44:37 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 23:42:20 2017. You get a shiny new concourse that still leads to a track and platform layout that is not optimized for the current primary role of the station. This is a huge commuter destination, a very busy regional rail destination, and a place where some LD trains originate. If the old Penn Station were still there, it would likely be inappropriate for today's passenger mix. The real work needed is "underneath". As others have previously pointed out, it may have been a major mistake to allow this commuter pattern to develop, without exploring (and creating) reasonable options to offer alternate routing. |
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| (1447374) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 22 14:45:28 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by pragmatist on Tue Aug 22 13:44:37 2017. If the old Penn Station were still there, it would likely be inappropriate for today's passenger mixThe current NYP is the stifling disaster. And down underneath was never designed for the number of trains it currently hosts. What should have been built is a Union Station further downtown, serving both NJT's Hoboken Division and LIRR's Atlantic Avenue branch (or possibly the Lower Montauk via a reconfigured Bushwick Branch leading into downtown). |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Aug 22 15:20:56 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by R30A on Tue Aug 22 13:20:42 2017. So is ESA. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by pragmatist on Tue Aug 22 15:52:11 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 21 17:57:25 2017. Lots of organizations check documents before boarding. Cruise ships and airlines do it all the time, it is way easier than dealing with stranded passengers and pissed off customs people in other countries who can cost you thousands by delaying your ship or plane or giving your passengers and crew extra scrutiny...however, if you are going to board passengers at 15 more stops before the border, it makes no sense. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan Station |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Tue Aug 22 16:05:17 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan Station, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Aug 21 22:12:51 2017. Thank you. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Aug 22 18:09:53 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by pragmatist on Tue Aug 22 15:52:11 2017. They can check it on board with the tickets. They can be told by Yonkers if you have no Passport, you might as well get off now and go back home because you won't make it across the border. CBSA will taxi you right back to a flee bag motel Rousses Point.That said, even with Passports, every trip I have taken on #69 for the last 4+ years, CBSA pulls 2 or 3 people off. They have gotten to be as much of SOBs as US Customs. As it is, you have to enter your Passport # and Expiry date when you make your Amtrak reservation. |
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| (1447419) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Aug 22 21:18:32 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 21 17:40:07 2017. God knows how much Andrew slashed from the MTA to come up with $560M, or from upstate projects. They could have started a low-budget commuter service between Saratogo and Albany-Rensellaer.That would actually be relatively cheap to pull off, maybe $100 million. The SNCRR has a large number of passenger coaches (including the ex-LIRR C1s), and the route between Saratoga and Albany is 80% double track. All that would need to happen is (1) trackage agreements with CP and Amtrak (2) some infill stations (Ballston Spa, Rt-155 where the Amtrak 'Schenectady-Colonie' Amshack still stands, Fuller Rd, Central Ave) (3) "Guaranteed" bus connection at ALB to downtown, running routes similar to the parking circulators and the NX through downtown. |
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| (1447427) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 22 23:17:32 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Aug 22 21:18:32 2017. Yes, and a bunch of high platforms that may require gantlet tracks for freight car clearance. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by R30a on Tue Aug 22 23:53:16 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by italianstallion on Tue Aug 22 15:20:56 2017. Yes, but it is far from finished. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Aug 23 00:12:52 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Joe V on Tue Aug 22 18:09:53 2017. Which is why we all pretty much agree that the special setup at NYP is a waste. Entering a document number and having are obviously 2 different things. I had my drivers lic. converted to an EDL (available in NY) for border crossing, only need the passport for int'l flying. |
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| (1447432) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Aug 23 00:28:29 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 22 23:17:32 2017. SNCRR is 100% low platform, yet they use(d) them anyway. The conductor pushes a metal staircase to the doors near the center of the pair, and the other side people would cross into the vestibule of the adjacent trapdoor-equipped car. Not sure how they are ADA compliant with such a setup, but there it is.Alternatively they can use just their regular vintage coaches, but using those for commuter service seems wrong somehow. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Aug 23 07:08:07 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Joe V on Tue Aug 22 18:09:53 2017. In 2009 or 2011, I forget which (was there both years), I crossed into Canada by foot at Niagara. The Canadians were insanely rude and nasty to this group of Hasidic guys (in their upper teens).The sergeant (I don't know if that was his actual rank, but he was clearly the boss) roared "We don't want you here! Step over to this desk so I can give you your notice of exclusion!" The guys then walked over about 10 feet to another counter, where said sergeant printed something off his computer and stuck it in the face of one of the young guys. I guess it said, in legalese, "Stay the fuck outta Canada!". I don't know what happened next. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 23 07:12:09 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by pragmatist on Wed Aug 23 00:12:52 2017. Most of us still need a Passport card for trains and buses. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 23 07:15:13 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Aug 23 07:08:07 2017. You should have filed a formal complaint about the Sergeant to CBSA, the US State Department, and perhaps the local Member of Parliament, maybe even stop in at the US consulate. That is a fire-able offense. |
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| (1447442) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Aug 23 07:30:08 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 23 07:12:09 2017. Yes, the EDL and the Passport card are roughly equal, but not that many states issue them (The EDL). Neither works for int'l flying. |
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| (1447449) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 23 08:07:58 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by pragmatist on Wed Aug 23 07:30:08 2017. I don't think NJ MVC has an EDL. |
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Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station” |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Aug 23 09:59:39 2017, in response to Re: New Video on Moynihan “Station”, posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 23 08:07:58 2017. The last I looked it was NY, VT, WA, MN, and MI..All states with lots of border crossing to Canada by residents,,,,We have EDL, but unless NY upgrades its regular license to higher standards (Federal Real ID) it will not be usable for the airport (domestic) or entry into federal buildings. A bunch of states are on the final extension for airport use, lots of states oppose some of the Real ID Act provisions. The EDL meets the standard and will not be a problem. |
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| (1447532) | |
Re: New Video on Moynihan Station |
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Posted by menJop on Wed Aug 23 20:14:35 2017, in response to New Video on Moynihan Station, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Aug 18 21:30:41 2017. Subliminal message?
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