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| Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. (1446966) | |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 19 09:10:51 2017, in response to Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Aug 19 08:16:25 2017. Not sure what your question is.By the way, it's very possible that the additional G train service will only operate between Court Sq and Bedford-Nostrand. That's where the extra demand will be, and turnaround is easy to accomplish at Bedford-Nostrand. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 19 09:12:07 2017, in response to Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Aug 19 08:16:25 2017. What is the question? |
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| (1446973) | |
Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Chicago44 on Sat Aug 19 11:01:23 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by AlM on Sat Aug 19 09:10:51 2017. But don't forget, G train riders need to get to the A & C trains at Hoyt/Schmerhorn St stations so riders between Bedford/Nostrand & Court Sq would be very angry if they have to get off at Bedford/Nostrand & wait for a Church Av bound G trains during peak periods. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 19 12:29:14 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Aug 19 11:01:23 2017. Yes. And NYCT would have to put a dispatcher there too. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Aug 19 13:04:14 2017, in response to Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Aug 19 08:16:25 2017. I dont see the reason for it.The express tracks are slow as crap. The local is much faster With station stops! |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Aug 19 13:37:51 2017, in response to Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Aug 19 08:16:25 2017. Here's the part that I do not understand. Generally it has been explained that up to 30 trains per hour can operate over a segment of tracks. (We are going to leave out how the #7 train managed 33 trains per hour rush hours up to the 1970's.)For years during the rush hours both E-trains and F-trains have operated at 15 trains per hour, resulting in a wait time between express trains of every 2 minutes. The level of Queens Blvd ridership requires such a level of service, it has been that way for decades. Which means for the Brooklyn segment 15 trains per hour from Kings Highway to/from 179th Street, Queens. That comes to an F local train every 4 minutes in Brooklyn - an extremely desirable level of service - that few places have. The G-train simply does NOT operate at a service level of 4-minutes between trains! The current schedule indicates that one could wait 6-8 minutes between G-trains, with up to 10 minutes between trains the usual practice. At 6 minutes between G trains that comes to 10 trains per hour, and at 10 minutes per train coming up to 6 trains per hour. Unless my math is wrong, with 15 F-trains per hour, and 10-G-trains per hour - that leaves 5 additional G-trains that could be added to those same tracks. I doubt very much at the MTA is going increase G-train service more than 15 trains per hour! In the days when the G-train operated to 71st Avenue/Forest Hills 24/7/365 as the Queens Blvd local service, it did not operate at more than 15 trains per hour. Yes, every one wants the MTA to "do something" because the Manhattan segment of the L-train will be closing for 15-months. It seems that there are plenty of proposals for all kinds of stuff - that will not REALLY HELP the riders of the L-train that use the remaining portion in Brooklyn, or those riders in Manhattan who need to travel across 14th Street - enhancing the connections between those two groups. Mike |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 19 13:42:51 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Michael549 on Sat Aug 19 13:37:51 2017. You are correct. What's more, F service is asymmetric. There aren't 15 tph toward 179th in the AM rush - more like 12. |
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| (1446992) | |
Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Sat Aug 19 13:44:38 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Aug 19 11:01:23 2017. Well, the idea was that displaced Canarsie Line riders would take the G to Court Square and then take the 7, E or M to Manhattan. Going all the way back to Hoyt would likely take longer.I would think that the same number of trains would operate south of Bedford-Nostrand Av as they do today. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 19 13:52:23 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Michael549 on Sat Aug 19 13:37:51 2017. The G train does have to be cleared out on the 'main' at Church Ave, which gimps the TPH of the line to something closer to 25. As long as they do not plan on more than 10TPH maximum for the G, it should be fine, but if not, sending some Fs express may actually be needed. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 19 14:23:43 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 19 13:52:23 2017. If that's a problem, then extend the G to 18th Avenue and turn it on the middle track. |
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| (1446999) | |
Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 19 14:24:37 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 19 12:29:14 2017. A lot cheaper to put in a dispatcher at Bedford-Nostrand than to run an extra 6 tph all the way to Church Ave. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 19 14:25:45 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Kriston Lewis on Sat Aug 19 13:44:38 2017. It makes sense but no one seems to have really said what the plan is. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 19 14:29:04 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Kriston Lewis on Sat Aug 19 13:44:38 2017. The 7, E, and M are packed as it is.As are the A and C, for that matter. As is the L, for that matter. The MTA has no plan to deal with the Canarsie shutdown. They're just sort of assuming that an entire line's rush hour crowd can just get absorbed by other lines with their own rush hour crowds. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Aug 19 14:32:52 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 19 13:52:23 2017. I doubt (but I could be wrong) that there is huge load of G-train riders during the AM rush hours in the Brooklyn bound direction that remain on the G-trains all of the way to Church Avenue ON A REGULAR BASIS.I doubt (but I could be wrong) that the "operation" to clear the shorter G-trains at Church Avenue heavily "backs up" traffic along the line ON A REGULAR BASIS. I concede that at times, some F-trains run express along the Smith Street segment for what-ever traffic reasons at times. All of this seems to be manage-able - as in not REQUIRING other service changes. Mike |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 19 14:35:44 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 19 14:29:04 2017. They do have a plan and they've published a high level summary. It's a set of charts - I don't know where to find them any more but they were linked here.- They expect to squeeze some extra people onto the 7, E, and southbound M. - They expect to fit a lot of people onto the northbound M. - They expect to fit quite a few people onto southbound J/Z (for transfer to the 4/5/6 and N/Q/R/W). - They expect to squeeze some extra people onto the A/C at East New York. - They expect some people from the far end of the L to take the 3 instead. And then there are also buses and ferries. I have no idea if the numbers add up, but it is a plan. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Sat Aug 19 14:40:48 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 19 14:29:04 2017. A major corridor with heavy ridership will be closed.There can never be a plan that has exactly the same capacity as how many 8 car trains per hour travel back and forth now. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Aug 19 14:42:12 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by AlM on Sat Aug 19 14:35:44 2017. There ARE a few places where this plan has been published, including the MTA's main web-page under the section: "Canarsie Tunnel Reconstruction."The Truth Is Out There! Mike |
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| (1447008) | |
Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 19 14:44:11 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Kriston Lewis on Sat Aug 19 14:40:48 2017. There can never be a plan that has exactly the same capacity as how many 8 car trains per hour travel back and forth now.Build a new tunnel, then close the old tunnels one at a time. A bit late for that plan now, but they had seven years to prepare for this. It didn't take seven years to build the Transbay Tube so they could have gotten a third Canarsie tube up and running by 2019 if they really tried. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 19 14:44:58 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Michael549 on Sat Aug 19 14:42:12 2017. I've seen it.Wallyhorse has come up with better and more workable plans than that. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Aug 19 15:09:48 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 19 14:44:58 2017. From a previous message:"Wallyhorse has come up with better and more workable plans than that." NO!! HE HAS NOT!! WE HAVE SEEN HIS IDEAS AND PLANS!! WE HAVE REVIEWED HIS PLANS AND IDEAS!! Mike |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Aug 19 16:17:04 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 19 14:44:11 2017. Where's the money????? |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Chicago44 on Sat Aug 19 16:35:03 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by italianstallion on Sat Aug 19 16:17:04 2017. Like I said, the transfer to the A & C trains is important as well & the stops between Hoyt/Schmerhorn & Bedford/Nostrand Av in both Ft.Greene & Clinton Hill are growing with new residential development going on. |
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| (1447026) | |
Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 19 17:22:11 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Aug 19 16:35:03 2017. That's a good reason to have more G service all the time. It's not a good reason to have unusual extra G service while the L is down. |
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| (1447029) | |
Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 19 18:06:41 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by AlM on Sat Aug 19 14:24:37 2017. There is no office there for the dispatcher and crews. The tower is not in a good place to run a railroad.As noted, many L customers will need Hoyt/Sch. to get A or C service to Manhattan. By turning selected trains at Bed/Nost, you are inconveniencing a whole bunch of passengers. Not every passenger wants to get to Manhattan via Queens. Some want to come directly from Brooklyn. Transit would make it inconvenient for passengers if they turn some trains at Bedford/Nost. |
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| (1447030) | |
Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 19 18:09:07 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 19 14:23:43 2017. No crew facility and no dispatchers office at 18th Ave. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 19 18:12:19 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 19 14:29:04 2017. What's the answer? Do we not do the work? |
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| (1447035) | |
Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Sat Aug 19 18:53:39 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 19 18:06:41 2017. Including those trying to get to Pratt Institute (Clinton/Washington St. station) or Brooklyn Technical HS (Fulton St. station). |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 19 20:16:52 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 19 18:06:41 2017. By turning selected trains at Bed/Nost, you are inconveniencing a whole bunch of passengers.How so? I was only suggesting turning the added trains that don't exist right now, and would only exist to carry people who can't use the L train. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 19 22:31:52 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 19 18:09:07 2017. Change crew at Church then run to 18th. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Randyo on Sun Aug 20 01:16:04 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 19 22:31:52 2017. Exactly sort of like the D does between 205 and Bed Pk. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 20 07:13:41 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by AlM on Sat Aug 19 17:22:11 2017. Full length G trains is the only significant capacity expansion, as well as a couple of more A & C frequencies.Wonder where the R32's will wind up ? I don't believe the "B" train rumor. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 20 08:05:03 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 20 07:13:41 2017. Full length G trains is the only significant capacity expansionLink? I haven't seen anything that actually said. I agree that if they don't add any trains, they can't turn any at B-N. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 20 08:29:32 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by AlM on Sat Aug 19 20:16:52 2017. You highlight what you want to highlight and ignore the rest of the post where the answer is.I am not doing a back and forth. We disagree, the end. NYCT has said nothing about turning some Good trains at Bedford/Nost. I worked the G line. 5 days acweek, same job, same schedule. I made the 7:07 out of Church every morning. I got to know faces. Lots of them got on at all stations from Clinton/Wash to Broadway. They got off at Metropolitan. For those going to Manhattan, why would they go to Queens? Wouldn't it make sense to go the other way? Turning trains at Bed/Nost would inconvenience them. Of course, I wasn't the only G. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 20 08:31:26 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 20 08:29:32 2017. Damn spell check.G train, Good train is what popped up. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 20 08:35:34 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 20 08:29:32 2017. Lots of them got on at all stations from Clinton/Wash to Broadway. They got off at Metropolitan.They won't be getting off at Metropolitan if the L isn't going to Manhattan. Anyway, Joe V is probably right that there won't be any extra G trains as a result of the L closure. If he is right, then everything I said is a discussion about nothing, because I was only ever talking about extra trains. I never suggested reducing service south of Bedford-Nostrand. |
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| (1447104) | |
Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 20 09:16:15 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by AlM on Sun Aug 20 08:35:34 2017. There you go again, highlighting stuff that you want to highlight and ignoring the answer elsewhere in the post.I clearly said that these passengers will go the other way, meaning to Hoyt/Sch. Reading comprehension is key. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 20 09:18:15 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Randyo on Sun Aug 20 01:16:04 2017. Bedford Park already has a dispatcher. 18th Ave. does not. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 20 09:20:06 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 20 09:16:15 2017. I clearly said that these passengers will go the other way, meaning to Hoyt/Sch.OK, now I see your point. Once the L is shut they will go south instead of north. But again, I'm not suggesting a reduction in service; I'm only suggesting no increase. And the MTA Has said they will lengthen the trains. |
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Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sun Aug 20 12:57:54 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by AlM on Sun Aug 20 09:20:06 2017. The MTA doesn't seem to think they'll go that far south, though. Source. Expand Service Strategies and Alternative Travel Patterns for L Riders. It makes sense. If I were headed to Midtown above 38th Street or so (walking distance from the 7), I'd go 7/E/M. The M/J/Z and transfers at Fulton and Canal have almost all other likely Manhattan destinations covered. I'd maybe use the A/C if crowding issues on the other lines were so chronically severe that I had to let several trains pass before I could board, but that would probably mean forgoing even more sleep. |
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| (1447122) | |
Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 20 13:19:15 2017, in response to Re: Question about the proposed Brooklyn F train express., posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sun Aug 20 12:57:54 2017. The map is showing what Bill is saying. If you're south of Bedford-Nostrand, you might take the G south to the A/C to get into Manhattan.Of course, you might also take it north to the M/J/Z. |
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