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| Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 (1446967) | |
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Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Aug 19 08:18:23 2017 Tuscarora Almanac - August 19, 1933 - The Book of First Runs Queens, New York New York City Board of Transportation The IND Queens Line opens between the 42nd Street-8th Avenue Station in Manhattan and the Roosevelt Avenue – Jackson Heights Station in Queens. Stations are located in Manhattan at 50 Street (Lower Level), 7th Avenue, 5th Avenue , Lexington-3rd Avenues. Stations in Queens are Queens Plaza, 36th Street, Steinway Street, 46th Street, Northern Boulevard, 65th Street and Roosevelt Avenue-Jackson Heights. 23RD Street – Ely Avenue will not open until August 28, 1939. The stations at 7th Avenue and 5th Avenue are on two levels. Southbound trains are on the upper level while northbound (Queensbound) trains are on the lower level. Tuscarora Almanac - August 19, 1933 - The Book of First Runs Queens, New York New York City Board of Transportation The IND Crosstown Line opens between Queens Plaza in Queens and Nassau Avenue in Brooklyn. Stations are located in Queens at Court Square and 21st Street-Van Alst; in Brooklyn at Greenpoint Avenue and Nassau Avenue. Tuscarora Almanac – August 19, 1991 – The Book of First Runs Jamaica, New York Long Island Railroad The double deck cars known as the C-1’s begin service today on the Long Island Railroad. They were built by Mitsui. Some if these cars are still in service on the Saratoga and North Creek Railroad in upstate New York. Larry, RedbirdR33 Source: New York Division Bulletin /August 2001 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Q4 on Sat Aug 19 11:45:03 2017, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Aug 19 08:18:23 2017. When did the upper level at 50th St. open? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by W.B. on Sat Aug 19 11:54:12 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Q4 on Sat Aug 19 11:45:03 2017. Why, Sept. 10, 1932 . . . |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Q4 on Sat Aug 19 12:29:00 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by W.B. on Sat Aug 19 11:54:12 2017. Thanks. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sat Aug 19 21:48:41 2017, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Aug 19 08:18:23 2017. Were there empty trackways where the Sixth Avenue tracks were going to be at Seventh Avenue? Was the tunnel for the Sixth Avenue Line connection between Seventh Avenue and Columbus Circle already built? |
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Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Aug 23 08:55:51 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Aug 19 21:48:41 2017. Were there empty trackways where the Sixth Avenue tracks were going to be at Seventh Avenue? Was the tunnel for the Sixth Avenue Line connection between Seventh Avenue and Columbus Circle already built? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Aug 23 09:39:34 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Aug 19 21:48:41 2017. Provisions were built for the 6th ave line.You have to remember, the 8th ave,Queens Blvd,Smith st,Concourse, Crosstown And Fulton st routes were ALL UNDER CONSTRUCTION AT THE SAME TIME either partiality, or fully during the late 20s and All of the 1930s.. Even the 6th ave route,though its construction was delayed until 1935-36..while the City wrangled over cost,WPA LOANS..The Second Ave subway..and other extensions. |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Aug 23 20:29:36 2017, in response to Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Aug 23 08:55:51 2017. You had to figure the ramps from 59th St. were built along with the rest of the 8th Ave. line. |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Thu Aug 24 06:43:23 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Aug 23 20:29:36 2017. I figured that, but that does not answer my question. Was the other track walled off if it was built? Or did people just have access to it? |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Fri Aug 25 01:41:38 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Aug 24 06:43:23 2017. Who knows? Probably the same construction method used when they built the ramp from the Van Wyck Blvd. E/F station (that wasn't used until the 1980s when the Archer Ave line was opened and E trains rerouted down that line). |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Aug 25 11:45:23 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Aug 24 06:43:23 2017. The diverging tracks south of the 59th Street-Columbus Circle may have been constructed with the rest of the Eighth Avenue subway line in ANTICIPATION of the construction of the Sixth Avenue line. However those tracks would have been simply UN-USED.Within the tower room those tracks and the physical switches could have been BLOCKED OFF from usage until the rest of the line had been built. In a sense we now have the opposite of the problem a bit further south on the Eighth Avenue line. As every transit fan knows there used to be a lower platform level at 42nd Street-Eighth Avenue that was used by some E-trains and A-trains. The track for that pathway and platform was closed off a decade or more ago. At one time when the actual track and switches for this path existed there was a set of permanent red lights, track blocking devices, as well as notices in the tower room that that track section was BLOCKED OFF. Once the physical tracks and switch was removed, I'm pretty sure that within the tower room the corresponding controls were blocked off, also. Mike |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Aug 25 12:23:05 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Edwards! on Wed Aug 23 09:39:34 2017. The IND Fulton section between Lewis Ave-Rockaway Ave was halted for a year, due to lack of funding. It should have been opened in 1935, instead of 1936. |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 25 15:08:37 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by Michael549 on Fri Aug 25 11:45:23 2017. The switch configuration N/O 42/8 did not allow A trains to access the lower level. Only trains from Queens could access it. |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 25 15:19:48 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by Michael549 on Fri Aug 25 11:45:23 2017. Not only that, but there was a tower at the S/E of the S/B U/L platform that controlled the switches from the lower level and was completely removed from service along with the lower level track. There were a few towers on the IND that had spare switch and signal lever spaces for proposed lines and in the case of Roosevelt Ave, even had the switch and signal levers completely installed although painted yellow indicating them as spare levers. |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Aug 25 18:26:43 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 25 15:08:37 2017. I was not as clear as I should have been. The A-trains that took on passengers from the lower level of the 42nd Street-Eighth Avenue station were Aqueduct Raceway Special A-trains that took on passengers there, and at Hoyt-Schermerhorn Streets.These special A-trains came off of the E-train line in Queens. Mike |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Fri Aug 25 23:26:59 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 25 15:19:48 2017. Continental Tower is about to close, by the way. I'm quite saddened. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sat Aug 26 01:54:14 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Edwards! on Wed Aug 23 09:39:34 2017. The 6th Avenue route was very expensive to build due to its location especially in the 14th-42nd St. areas where it had to pass under (or over) several other subway and railroad lines plus the PATH and one of the city's water tunnels. In addition there was an elevated line on 6th Ave. until 1938 when it was torn down and streetcars at the surface level. |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Sat Aug 26 02:37:03 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by G1Ravage on Fri Aug 25 23:26:59 2017. So where will T/O and C/R for trains that start/terminate at Continental take their breaks? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Aug 26 10:53:28 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by murray1575 on Sat Aug 26 01:54:14 2017. 34th St. was especially hairy. The 6th Ave. line goes under the BMT Broadway line and over the LIRR and Amtrak tracks into Penn Station.I also noticed this past June that at 42nd St., the mezzanine north of 42nd isn't all that big and there's a wall right above the stairs down to the platforms. Then it dawned on me: the 42nd St. shuttle is on the other side of that wall. The 6th Ave. line goes right beneath it. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Sat Aug 26 13:11:18 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Aug 26 10:53:28 2017. Fredrick Kramer, in his "Building the Independent Subway" book, has a pic from track level of the shuttle, showing just how close it is....Not to mention having to squeeze the local tracks 34 st - 14 st around the H&M/PATH tunnels. |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Aug 26 15:56:34 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Sat Aug 26 02:37:03 2017. There is a crew room on the mezzanine level at Ctl. Also, even though the present interlocking machine will be removed, the physical room will still remain for the supervisory staff and possibly even a satellite tower to whatever master tower will control the area. |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Aug 26 16:07:27 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by Michael549 on Fri Aug 25 18:26:43 2017. Actually 2 of the Aqueduct specials were F trains that terminated at 2 Av towards the end of the AM rush and ran light to Qns Plz where they changed ends and went south to 42/8 lower. The Aqueduct specials were in no way shape or form A trains and by the way they were staffed by Qns crews not A line crews. |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Sat Aug 26 16:44:17 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by randyo on Sat Aug 26 16:07:27 2017. Interesting! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Aug 26 23:01:10 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Sat Aug 26 13:11:18 2017. "I'll make it fit." |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Aug 27 03:12:59 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by murray1575 on Sat Aug 26 01:54:14 2017. And even with that,the IND had put many routes on hold that SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUILT BEFORE THE 6TH AVENUE LINE...especially the SAS...The 34th st subway would definitely come in handy,as it would have served as a crosstown connector between th3 various new IND lines either under construction or planned. The Amsterdam/10th ave line...the 8th ave...6th ave...Madison ave and Second Ave lines all would have linked . |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by Handbrake on Sun Aug 27 13:53:07 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by Michael549 on Fri Aug 25 11:45:23 2017. A tower, since closed, located on the south end-southbound of 42nd street controlled switches on D5 track. |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Aug 27 14:07:11 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Aug 24 06:43:23 2017. Why wall it off? If it had had anything like the orange wall at Lex-63rd, I'm sure there there would have been stories that mentioned it and its later removal. There aren't, so it's a pretty safe bet that the 6th Ave. trackways were accessible from the time the station opened. People then would not have been bothered by that. In fact, there's no reason people now should be bothered by something like that either. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 27 14:08:26 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Sat Aug 26 13:11:18 2017. I still can't believe that the IND planners actually thought they could repurpose the H&M tubes, between 33rd St-9th St, for express tunnels. |
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Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 27 15:42:55 2017, in response to Re: Question about Seventh Avenue station on the IND, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Aug 27 14:07:11 2017. I suspect that the reason that the reason the proposed SAS track was walled off was due to the public controversy that surrounded the SAS. If the track were exposed, passengers might have questioned its presence and the riding public would have been even more upset about the numerous delays in its construction. With the wall it was a case of “out of sight out of mind” unlike the situation with the construction of the 6 Av Line. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Sun Aug 27 17:18:32 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 27 14:08:26 2017. I can't imagine the thought lasted a long time...I hope the M&M soaked the city very well for the relocation of 33rd St,too! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Aug 27 20:36:31 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Edwards! on Sun Aug 27 03:12:59 2017. At least the 6 Ave subway was built before the 6 Ave el was torn down. 2 and 3 Avenues weren't as fortunate. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Asgard on Sun Aug 27 20:49:48 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Aug 27 20:36:31 2017. The Sixth Avenue el was gone before the subway was finished. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 27 21:19:19 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Asgard on Sun Aug 27 20:49:48 2017. The el was dismantled by early 1939 while the subway line opened in December of 1940. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 27 21:22:02 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Sun Aug 27 17:18:32 2017. Once they found out the H&M tunnels were built to IRT clearances, that was end of that plan. It would have cost a fortune to retrofit those tunnels to handle 10-foot-wide cars. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 27 21:35:47 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Asgard on Sun Aug 27 20:49:48 2017. Demolition of the 6th Ave el began on Jan 3rd, 1939, by the runner-up bidder, Harris Structural Steel Co. By the first week of April, that year, almost everything was gone, except for some of the stairways on 33rd Street. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 27 21:50:02 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 27 21:22:02 2017. Those H&M tunnels had been deliberately built for smaller cars, so that the other railroads on the NJ side could not use them for through service to Manhattan with their larger passenger cars. As I said before, I was very surprised that the IND did not realize this!By the way, ever notice that the H&M never fought the City over demolition of its original 33rd St terminal? That's because of a 1905 agreement, where the H&M had to agree to any future eminent domain claims, in case the City wanted to build a subway under 6th Ave. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 28 15:46:04 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 19, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 27 21:50:02 2017. I don’t think that the H&M tunnels were built for small cars to prevent NJ RRs from using them. At the time the H&M tunnels were built state of the art for rapid transit construction was IRT sized dimensions. |
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