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| Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? (1445944) | |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Aug 13 15:57:05 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 13 15:50:18 2017. The infamous circle K. Never fails every couple yrs some new T/O goes down there and goes BIE multiple times trying to key that thing...lol |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 13 16:20:18 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Aug 13 15:57:05 2017. Or just sits behind the signal or tries to key by w/o activating the lever LOL! |
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| (1446474) | |
Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Aug 13 16:55:00 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 13 16:20:18 2017. Yeah that too. Can hear the radio calls now saying the stop arm won't go down...lol |
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| (1446477) | |
Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Aug 13 18:43:49 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 13 15:50:18 2017. Interesting.Yes, it may take "longer to relay downstairs than upstairs", and there may be issues of train operator training, etc., all of which are manageable things. The 179th Street terminal however did pump out 15 trains per hour for E-trains, and 15 trains per hour for F trains during the morning rush hours for several decades. In both directions of travel - both out-going traffic and in-coming traffic. Sometimes it seems like some want to say that things have gotten so bad that previous levels of service are somehow not possible today. Mike |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Aug 14 10:54:56 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Michael549 on Sun Aug 13 18:43:49 2017. It has nothing to do with Train Operator training.I clearly explained why it takes longer to relay downstairs than upstairs, even when the t/o knows exactly what he's doing. I was among those who knew his job so I know what I'm talking about because I relayed trains upstairs and downstairs MANY times in my career. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by jailhousedoc on Mon Aug 14 11:07:44 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 13 12:24:19 2017. all of those were part of the proposed subway expansion known as the IND ' Second System ' - which now really needs to be made a reality. Eastern queens is a long way from yesteryear's potato farms - there is a different group out there who might be amenable to more mass transit to get them home especially during a winter snowstorm. With the car blocked in the driveway due to the snow piled up by the plows, the underground would be a welcome asset to getting around in that kind of situation. |
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| (1446530) | |
Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Aug 14 11:14:23 2017, in response to Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Aug 8 18:02:44 2017. There is a station on Hillside Av East of 179 St. The East Williston LIRR Station. |
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| (1446573) | |
Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Aug 14 16:38:32 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Aug 14 10:54:56 2017. Maybe I was not being clear.I started out talking about the capabilities of the 179th Street station as a terminal, both as a place to store trains, to terminate and relay trains, and to handle the heavy load of train traffic both into and out of the station. I was NOT talking about any one's skills or capabilities in any negative way. I guess that in my own way I was applauding the skills and management of the folks who have and continue to work there - by applauding the capabilities of the terminal. I was NOT saying anything negative about the Motorman who died, or about any of the MTA staff that work there. I apologize if that was the impression or message conveyed - that was never my intention. You said that trains that use the lower level to conduct the terminate and relay operation take a little longer than trains that use the upper level. I was simply saying that even if it "takes a little longer" - the 179th Street station as a terminal is still VERY MUCH A VERY CAPABLE TERMINAL. The 179th Street terminal pumped out 15 trains per hour for E-trains, and 15 trains per hour for F trains during the rush hours for several decades. In both directions of travel - both out-going traffic and in-coming traffic. You said, " . . . I relayed trains upstairs and downstairs MANY times in my career." I realize that some now may think at the station is not as capable as it used to be, with only F-trains operating there, and a few E-trains. I hoped to rebut that contention. I never meant to insult anyone or the memory of anyone. If I did, I apologize. Michael PS - In the mid-1970's, a friend of mine Jackie who lived in Hollis, Queens told me about her train trip to City College. About how she would note where the doors opened on newly arriving trains so that she could "spot her seat" for the trip to Manhattan. I was intrigued by her description of the station because it was unlike any of the subway stations that I used growing up in the Bronx. This meant that I had to travel to the end of the E line in Queens just to see the station in operation during the rush hours after class. This was before the Transit Exhibition opened with the white plastic model board of the whole subway system which gave away its many secrets. Where before I had to make my own hand-drawn track maps to figure out the subway stations and tracks. Those where the days when being a "transit nerd" was a kind of lonely hobby. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Aug 15 03:54:00 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 13 15:50:18 2017. Would it be possible to have local service to 179? If so, it would certainly make riders' trips into Manhattan that much quicker.179 > Kew Gardens/Union Tpke. > 71st. Continental Ave., instead of the F (and formerly E) slogging through those first eight stations before running express. Don't enough people (especially rush hour traffic) get on at 179 to make this viable? And during rush hour could some expresses run light, beginning their run at Kew Gardens or 71st, picking up those passengers who used the local service as a feeder for those stations? |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Aug 15 09:04:00 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Express Rider on Tue Aug 15 03:54:00 2017. The thing is if one line (such as the F) is not horribly overcrowded by the time it reaches, say, Kew Gardens, that means it is handling all of the people from 179th to Kew Gardens by itself with no problem (not counting the infrequent special express Es). If one line can handle 179th to Kew Gardens and there are no significant problems with that, they will just run that one line -- they don't run second lines just to make things faster (anymore), they only run them to avoid crowding. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Tue Aug 15 12:50:43 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Aug 14 11:14:23 2017. Rapid transit will stimulate property development that can have a negative impact on a neighborhood. Example, property development in the Brighton Sheepshead Bay area over the past twenty years has seen one, and two family houses give way to multi story apartment/condominiums.A giant multi story building adjacent to the Sheepshead Bay station is nearing completion and will add a significant passenger load to Brighton line trains that presently carry a heavy load on a two track line north of Parkside Avenue into DeKalb to reach Manhattan. I have seen how Hillside Avenue transformed from how it appeared in the early 1960's, to how Hillside appears today. The relatively tranquil suburban feel is long gone. |
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| (1446665) | |
Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 16 06:56:10 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by HANDBRAKE on Tue Aug 15 12:50:43 2017. Some people have the point of view that "negative Impact" does not equate to "tranquil suburban feel"It's all about money. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by FormerStrapHanger on Wed Aug 16 15:03:29 2017, in response to Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Aug 8 18:02:44 2017. My parents bought their home in Bellerose off of Hillside Ave. in 1941. One of the things they were told at the time was that preliminary plans were in place to extend the subway East as far as the City Line. Obviously, that has never happened.However, growing up in the 60's I could still see evidence that there had been some thought given to the possibility. Hillside Ave. where it intersects Springfield Blvd gets very wide. In the 60's, there was no median - just asphalt. The thought was that this would be the next terminus after 179th St. After that, it would be extended further East as warranted. Notice that Little Neck Parkway widens considerably at Hillside. That was going to a major stop for the line. Just beyond the City Line is a shopping center. That land was vacant up until the early 70's when W.T. Grant first occupied it. Reportedly, that land sat vacant for so long because NYC had an option on it so that they could use it as a layup yard if the subway did get that far. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 16 15:29:40 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by FormerStrapHanger on Wed Aug 16 15:03:29 2017. If it existed today, they'd probably send the R to 179th and F beyond to wherever. I don't know if the F would have to be a Hillside Express between 71st Av and 179th. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 16 15:31:22 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by FormerStrapHanger on Wed Aug 16 15:03:29 2017. Too bad it didn't. There are large swaths of eastern and northern Queens that have never seen a subway train and most likely never will. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Aug 16 15:34:03 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 16 15:31:22 2017. Same with the Bronx! |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 16 15:36:55 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 16 15:31:22 2017. Imagine if the Flushing Line got extended onto the Port Washington branch. That was the plan. The two services would have had a symbiotic relationship with feeder traffic. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by FormerStrapHanger on Wed Aug 16 16:36:33 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 16 15:31:22 2017. My parents moved from Brooklyn, where they had lots of choices for subways/els/streetcars. Bellerose was the other side of the world at times. One of the selling points was that the subways were coming, and Dad would be able to get to his job in Manhattan easily.Then the war came. So much for that. |
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| (1446731) | |
Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Handbrake on Wed Aug 16 18:37:25 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 16 06:56:10 2017. Joe. You are absolutely correct. Build it and they will come. The subways that is, and development shall follow. City Government was pretty keen to know that money will follow transportation. Too bad that from the middle of the last century government put all that money into the rubber wheeled horse, and not the iron one. We are paying the price for those 1930 through 1970 priorities of government. |
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| (1446734) | |
Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Handbrake on Wed Aug 16 18:48:56 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 16 15:31:22 2017. Had the IRT agreed to run trains on the LIRR Whitestone Branch as NYC had an agreement with the PRR to lease the line, and tie it into the Flushing line at Willets Point Blvd. Had the agreed to run its trains up to Whitestone, Whitestone would be a very different place today.Had the BRT been around at the time of the City's deal with the LIRR, the BRT would have more than likely taken the deal to run into Whitestone, with the IRT more than likely following. Hence, Whitestone was able to avoid the over development urban bullet, as it remains a rather quaint Long Island like village. |
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| (1446742) | |
Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 16 19:03:25 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Handbrake on Wed Aug 16 18:48:56 2017. IRT may not have liked the Whitestone Branch's grade-crossings."Quaint" means shitty public transit, like much of Long Island's North Shore. |
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| (1446747) | |
Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Aug 16 20:16:39 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Handbrake on Wed Aug 16 18:48:56 2017. The IRT had no money to hook up to the Whitestone branch, which closed on Feb 9th, 1932. The IRT went bankrupt in August 26th, 1932, some six months later. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Aug 16 20:52:43 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by FormerStrapHanger on Wed Aug 16 16:36:33 2017. It wasn't just the war. LaGuardia had exhausted City funds with his Unification expenditures. He couldn't even afford to tear down the entire length of the Fulton St el, from Fulton Ferry to Rockaway Ave. Instead, it had to be done in 3 contracts: Myrtle Ave-Lafayette Ave, Lafayette-Rockaway, and Myrtle-Fulton Ferry. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Handbrake on Wed Aug 16 21:21:41 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 16 19:03:25 2017. NYC was ready to upgrade the LIRR Whitestone RoW to eliminate grade crossings, and double track the line.Private rapid transit operators spent little money when it came to capital construction projects to build subways. Typically NYC built the underground RoW's, and leased out the RoW to private operators. The IRT turned down the Whitestone route for business reasons better explained in the book, "Routes Not Taken." Sadly, with all the undeveloped land available at the time in Queens, a more costly four track subway would have been a better alternative to the elevated structure that is the Flushing line today. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Handbrake on Wed Aug 16 21:53:30 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Aug 16 20:16:39 2017. Negotiations of a lease of the LIRR Whitestone Branch took place in 1915. The negotiated yearly lease was negotiated at $125,000.00, and with public support of a two fare zone to entice the IRT, and BRT to run trains on the LIRR RoW. Eventually an agreement was reached with the NYC, The LIRR, IRT, and BRT but by late 1917 the plan fell apart due to politics, as usual.A 1928 plan to sell the Whitestone RoW to NYC BoT went no where. Too bad, the 1939 IND World's fair Subway would have made a nice connection to the Whitestone RoW, but a very long ride for commuters had it happened. A link to Routes Not Taken" is below. https://books.google.com/books?id=-_gVDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=LIRR+whitestone+branch+lease+to+IRT&source=bl&ots=KMYmi4rdNw&sig=iobk4yLmXIEyIdjvkYiQDQ29BhY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwib8aH8jt3VAhVm7IMKHfeLBVc4ChDoAQg2MAM#v=onepage&q=LIRR%20whitestone%20branch%20lease%20to%20IRT&f=false |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Euclid Avenue A Train on Fri Aug 18 10:19:02 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by R2Chinatown on Fri Aug 11 15:53:41 2017. The Queens/Nassau Line at Hillside Avenue is at Lakeville Road |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Aug 18 11:37:56 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by FormerStrapHanger on Wed Aug 16 15:03:29 2017. I,VE POSTED ON THESE INTERSECTIONS BEFORE,SEVERAL TIMES IN FACT.ACCORDING TO VINCENT SEYFRIED A 20 YEAR PERSONAL FRIEND AND NOTED QUEENS/ LIRR/TROLLEY HISTORIAN THESE WIDE INTERSECTIONS WERE INTENDED TO BE STREET UNDERPASSES,SAME AS MERRICK BLVD-N- SPRINGFIELD BLVD IN LAURELTON.NOT FOR SUBWAY USE. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Aug 18 11:47:15 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Euclid Avenue A Train on Fri Aug 18 10:19:02 2017. original ind. plans called for it to go right[e/b] on little neck p`way and end at Jamaica ave-n- little neck p`way. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Aug 18 13:52:01 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Euclid Avenue A Train on Fri Aug 18 10:19:02 2017. Please look at your map again - it is Langdale Street, Lakeville Road is inside Nassau County. The proposed subway was supposed to end at Little Neck Parkway. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Aug 18 14:34:51 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Euclid Avenue A Train on Fri Aug 18 10:19:02 2017. No, Lakeville closely approaches the city line at Union Tpke. But Lakeville heads east as it heads south and ends up well into Nassau County by the time it is at Hillside. |
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