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| Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? (1445944) | |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Aug 9 18:51:07 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 9 16:23:30 2017. 179th Street was built significantly later than the rest of the line. 169th opened in 1939 and 179th in 1950. It was the last station of the classic IND to be opened. The next new subway station was Grant Avenue in 1956.I am aware of this. However, the original question was why stop at 179th St and not extend the line to 188th St. Someone must know the real reason why. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by northshore on Wed Aug 9 18:57:49 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Aug 9 18:51:07 2017. After WWII expansion plans were shelved because the existing infrastructure (including cars) were in desperate need od repair and replacement (sound familiar?) The Second Avenue Bond money was used instead for new cars and equipment. Only Rockaway was tackled because of the fire. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Aug 9 19:08:29 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by northshore on Wed Aug 9 18:57:49 2017. Thankx northshore.Bill Newkirk |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 9 21:08:19 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by northshore on Wed Aug 9 18:57:49 2017. "Only Rockaway was tackled because of the fire."I'm not sure I understand this. The City had always intended to build a line to the Rockaways but that plan stalled over money. When the LIRR decided to abandon the Rockaway line south of Ozone Park, the TA grabbed the chance to build a Rockaway line on the cheap. Is that what you meant? |
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Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?) |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 9 21:09:58 2017, in response to Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?), posted by jailhousedoc on Wed Aug 9 17:34:07 2017. That's not happening. The political will isn't there, the money isn't there and the NIMBY's will eat you alive.It would be nice but I don't see any new lines being built in the next 50 years except MAYBE the full SAS. |
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Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?) |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 9 21:12:27 2017, in response to Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?), posted by LuchAAA on Wed Aug 9 16:17:01 2017. Depends on the time of day. During the morning rush hours, the eastbound GCP is pretty bad. Between 9 am and 2 pm its OK. During the afternoon rush its hell and damnation, especially during the school year. I used to work in Hicksville and when I used to drive to the office from Jamaica, I used Hillside Avenue all the way down until it turned into Jericho Turnpike, and then grab the Northern State near the Wantagh. It was a long haul but easier on the nerves. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 9 22:21:05 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 9 18:06:06 2017. They did and it was a miserable failure because the area was too built up and locals complained. If the area were empty it would be no problem. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by northshore on Wed Aug 9 22:40:37 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 9 21:08:19 2017. The LIRR service to Rockaway was abandoned in 1950 due to the trestle fire. The TA had no plans to take over the line at that time, but was forced to out of necessity of providing rail service to the Rockaways |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Aug 9 23:08:07 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by northshore on Wed Aug 9 22:40:37 2017. The LIRR service to Rockaway was abandoned in 1950 due to the trestle fire.A fire they started themselves to abandon the line without strong backlash. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by northshore on Wed Aug 9 23:13:41 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Aug 9 23:08:07 2017. I would agree with that |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Wed Aug 9 23:32:57 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 9 13:01:10 2017. As I said, you still don't get it. The tail tracks are irrelevant. Why is that so hard to understand? |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Wed Aug 9 23:33:32 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 9 11:52:05 2017. Pics? |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Wed Aug 9 23:38:34 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Edwards! on Wed Aug 9 12:41:53 2017. Yep. You're so smart. Now you just need to tell everyone my other handle. I (won't) be waiting... |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 10 06:28:31 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 9 22:21:05 2017. If the area were "empty", there would have been no need to do it.I think they complained of the vibrations. I wouldn't think there was a whole lot of difference between trolley cars and wooden el cars, even in 3 car consists. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 10 06:35:25 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by northshore on Wed Aug 9 22:40:37 2017. They had other serious fires before that. They simply decided this would be the last fire. The mistake made after the city rebuilt the line was turning control over to the TA. They simply should have handed the keys back to the LIRR, having solved the problem.LIRR was all to happy to accept a capital bailout from NYS to buy the 242 Pullman-Standard coaches, but turned their nose up at accepting city capital money to restore RBB service.It would have been cheaper, as the city would not have had to pay for the expense of upgrading the signal and 3rd rail power systems for rapid transit service. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 10 06:45:01 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by northshore on Wed Aug 9 23:13:41 2017. Rumor has it LIRR arsoned their own "WIN" tower in the late 1970's so they could remove all the switches on the curve among all the tracks, which were difficult to engineer and maintain. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Aug 10 10:23:26 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Aug 9 18:51:07 2017. There need not be a reason per se. If there were funds to get to 179th then you would get there. If after getting there or while approaching getting there, one learns that you won't get all the way to 188th you can still finish 179th, even if it's not the biggest of intersections at street level.Building 179th allows, for example, for short-turns of bus routes as appropriate at 179th for subway access, rather than continuing west to 169th. If/when there are more "doomsday" cuts due to finances, you can turn many/all of the Eastern Queens / Nassau buses at 179th rather than bringing them in as far as 169th. There doesn't have to be a specific reason why they stopped at 179th. That may just be as far as they got. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 10 12:03:46 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Aug 10 10:23:26 2017. In terms of bus transfers, there is a logic to building a station in a less prominent location. It minimizes congestion because there isn't as much traffic other than the buses picking up and dropping off passengers. This is as opposed to forcing bus passengers to sit through congestion trying to get to a more prominent location like Parsons.Also, most of the 179th Street buses run to the 165th Street bus terminal, because it's better than using side streets to turn around and some people just want to go to downtown Jamaica, or transfer to buses that don't pass 179th. So extending to 188 will have minimal effect on bus service except for the ability to merge the Q17 with either the Q2 or Q3. It would only benefit the people who are within walking distance of a potential 188th Street station who are not within walking distance of 179th. It would also have to be built cut and cover, which would provide sufficient disruption to traffic along Hillside that it would be as bad as disrupting a longer stretch. So at that point it doesn't seem worthwhile to extend it without extending it to Francis Lewis or Springfield. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 10 13:28:02 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 10 12:03:46 2017. I think Nassau County would turn their Hillside Av buses back as far east as they dare. They would not lose a wink of sleep of those people had to transfer again to get to Sutphin Blvd area.As it was, the N4 was cut back south from Hillside & 169th to Archer & around 160th. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Aug 10 15:10:26 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Aug 9 18:51:07 2017. There is a strong argument that the 169th Street local subway station terminal was not adequate for the E and F line service. In comparison a new terminal (opening in 1950) at 179th Street with its layup track arrangement was better suited for handling the crowds of riders coming from the various bus lines, and the handling and storage of trains, Plus if there were funds (even if unlikely) the potential to expand the line was not precluded.Mike |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Aug 10 15:31:08 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 10 13:28:02 2017. I think Nassau County would turn their Hillside Av buses back as far east as they dare. They would not lose a wink of sleep of those people had to transfer again to get to Sutphin Blvd area.Leaving aside the causes of Nassau's budget problems, requiring people to make a (usually free) transfer to the subway in a more eastern location sounds relatively tolerable if it helps avoid the entire cutting of service elsewhere in the county. I don't know for sure, but it would call for a survey of how many people are going for the subway (west of Jamaica) versus how many actually want Jamaica or a local bus therein. If you have a good majority going for the subway anyway, at least at a certain time of day, it may not be cost effective for the County to be sending buses all the way into Jamaica, while creating "transit deserts" elsewhere. And it is only because the F train doesn't really cut through Jamaica centrally that I think those bound for Jamaica itself should be considered. If the F was within convenient walking distance for all of Downtown Jamaica, I would say that there is no reason (not counting a suitable place to relay) for Nassau buses to go all the way in without the support of an overwhelming majority. Not, of course, that the purpose of extending the NYC subway is to help out Nassau's bus system. As it was, the N4 was cut back south from Hillside & 169th to Archer & around 160th. This sounds more like a rerouting than a cutback to me. How would people today react if it reverted back to Hillside / 169th, now that there is no J train at 168th? |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 10 16:19:56 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Aug 10 15:31:08 2017. < This sounds more like a rerouting than a cutback to me. How would people today react if it reverted back to Hillside / 169th, now that there is no J train at 168th? >The J and E train are right there at Parson/Archer. No sense in schlepping north to Hillside and I don't think they would like it one bit. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 10 18:19:33 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 10 16:19:56 2017. It's not "right there." The N4 runs on Merrick and 168th. Historically it went up to Hillside and now it turns onto Archer. If it had kept its old route, it would NOT intercept the E/J/Z.Unless of course, the Archer Subway had been completed as planned and there would have been a J/Z station at Merrick Boulevard. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 10 18:23:38 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 10 18:19:33 2017. So it turns west instead of heading north. It does not matter. They still have direct access to the Queens Blvd line and Jamaica el. |
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Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?) |
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Posted by jailhousedoc on Thu Aug 10 19:10:30 2017, in response to Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?), posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 9 21:09:58 2017. the politicians have money or can find money for what they or their friends want, and they have excuses for the rest...... |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Aug 10 20:43:49 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 10 06:28:31 2017. "If the area were "empty", there would have been no need to do it."Don't forget the picture (posted here before) of the 7 going through "empty" farmland on Queens Blvd. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 10 20:45:43 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Aug 10 20:43:49 2017. I know that. But even then Woodside and Flushing did not look like North Dakota. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 11 11:29:19 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Edwards! on Wed Aug 9 12:41:53 2017. Does he have another handle? |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 11 11:29:21 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Union Tpke on Tue Aug 8 18:12:21 2017. Why? There are already, what, 6 tracks beyond 179th? You'd only need two of them for service, and those two are already being used for relays anyway so there isn't really a lot of space lost. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 11 11:29:24 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Aug 8 18:19:53 2017. Aw, felt the place wasn't obnoxious enough without you? Sorry, but we've got a literal Nazi posting here; your asshole behaviour is small potatoes in comparison. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Aug 11 13:04:26 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 11 11:29:21 2017. Beyond 179th Street there are 8 tracks in a two level arrangement with 4 tracks per level.The lower level train storage area can store 1 full-sized train on each track, and there are switches present allowing a "full-X cross-over" to and from all of the tracks. Trains that use the "local tracks" at 179th Street lead directly to and from the lower level tracks. The upper train storage area can store 2 full-sized trains on each track, and there are switches present allowing a "full-X cross-over" to and from all of the tracks. Trains that use the "express tracks" at 179th Street lead directly to and from the upper level tracks. Effectively this means that one could store 3 full-size trains on the lower level while leaving one track open to terminate and relay trains into and out of the 179th Street station by the local tracks. Peter Dougherty notes that two ten-car full-size trains using the outer upper level storage tracks will be "foul of" or basically block the inner upper level storage tracks. Effectively this means that one could store 5 full-size trains on all of the upper level tracks while leaving one track open to terminate and relay trains into and out of the 179th Street station by the express tracks. (For example - 4 trains at the back part of the storage area, plus the "front" part of one of the inner express tracks, with the other "front inner express track" open.) I suppose that up to 6 trains could be stored on the upper level - 4 trains at the back part of the storage area, plus 2 trains stored at the "front" sections of the inner express tracks. Leaving 2 "spots" open on the outer tracks to terminate and relay trains - knowing that the trains on inner sections won't be moving for a while. Possibly up to 10 trains could be stored at 179th Street over-night for the start of rush hours. If there was a full cross-over set of track switches between 169th Street and 179th Street - then the entire set of storage tracks and spaces aft of the 179th Street could be used for the over-night storage of trains. Mike |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Aug 11 14:04:06 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 11 11:29:19 2017. He did. I'd know it if I saw it again, unless he has chosen yet another one. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Aug 11 14:15:56 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by TerrApin Station on Wed Aug 9 23:38:34 2017. Who cares? |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 11 15:49:59 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 11 11:29:21 2017. The upper level was always intended for services heading east to the boarder.Francis Lewis Blvd was the intended terminal...then a two track extension further east to about Springfield Blvd/Queens boarder... |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by R2Chinatown on Fri Aug 11 15:53:41 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 11 15:49:59 2017. The Queens border along Hillside Avenue is at about 271 St. and not Springfield Blvd. (roughly 2.5 miles from the border) |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Aug 11 17:14:25 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Aug 11 14:15:56 2017. Edwards does, obviously. What a stupid post, Mitch45! |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 11 22:15:09 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Aug 11 17:14:25 2017. Hey...why wouldn't I miss my "favorite Subchat compatriot" of all time? |
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Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?) |
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Posted by menJop on Fri Aug 11 23:49:49 2017, in response to Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?), posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 9 12:45:29 2017. There's already 8 tracks on two levels just east (RR north) of 179th, with capacity to lay up 10 trains without fouling any switches (Peter Dougherty).If you were to extend D1-D4 (bringing the local tracks D1/D2 up to the same level on new ramps), you'd lose 6 trains of layup capacity (one each on the local tracks and two each on the express tracks), but you could make up some or all of that with tail tracks beyond the new terminal. You could also add switches for access to the existing layup tracks from the new terminal (i.e., from RR north). That way services terminating at the new terminal could run light back to the existing layups. Not saying this would be cheap, but wouldn't be that bad. A cheaper option would be to simply extend the express tracks out to a new terminal, with tail tracks to recoup the 4 trains worth of storage capacity. I dislike the inflexibility of 2-track lines though. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by menJop on Sat Aug 12 00:08:40 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 9 15:43:32 2017. Given the two level layup past 179th, it is possible that 179th Street was intended as the LOCAL terminal, with express service continuing beyond...That's my interpretation of the layout at 179th. The locals have access to only the lower level, which would be trickier to extend, so it seems reasonable that it was intended as a 71st-style relay operation. The express tracks could relatively easily be extended along Hillside, perhaps as a two- or three-track service to the city line, which is pretty typical of IND construction. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by menJop on Sat Aug 12 00:12:32 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Aug 9 14:35:47 2017. Plus you need space at the terminal anyway for at least 2 gap trains.I'd like to understand this. Would you mind explaining? |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Aug 12 01:45:18 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by menJop on Sat Aug 12 00:08:40 2017. In the years BEFORE the Archer Avenue segments were constructed or opened, it is easy to imagine that the N or R and the G trains all ended as they did at 71st Avenue-Forest Hills. With E-trains making local stops to 179th Street as it did BEFORE the Archer Avenue stations openedd. Then the F-train was the rush hours express, and could easily be imagined to extend and service Queens subway stations beyond the 179th Street terminal.Just a thought. Mike |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Sat Aug 12 01:49:29 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 9 00:40:36 2017. Subchat Herpes is flaring up again. |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 12 11:44:38 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by menJop on Sat Aug 12 00:12:32 2017. In case one of your trains on the road goes bad you have a spare.Or In case you have a long delay in your arriving trains you can use one of these "gap trains" to provide service. |
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Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?) |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Aug 12 14:47:30 2017, in response to Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?), posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 9 21:09:58 2017. Sadly, I have to agree with you. |
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Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?) |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Aug 13 08:02:08 2017, in response to Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?), posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 9 21:09:58 2017. LaGuardia AirTrain has become increasingly likely, though not NYC subway proper.IMHO the NYC subway is sufficiently large both to wow other international cities and to be a playground for railfans. At this point I'd much rather see the existing infrastructure be state of the art and much more passenger friendly than to just see expansion for the sake of expansion. As someone who has lived in the Floral Park area, I'd rather take a high-tech, modern bus (Q43) to the high-tech, modern subway (F train) than get on a low-tech, or at least hastily-constructed and thus unreliable F train in Floral Park. |
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Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Aug 13 12:08:49 2017, in response to Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?), posted by jailhousedoc on Wed Aug 9 17:34:07 2017. Adding more bus lines will not help. Adding BETTER bus lines will help.Eliminate parking along the bus routes. Use long bendy buses, load at all doors. COLLECT NO FARES! They will pay when they enter the subway. Obviously these will be express buses and will make stops at about where subway stations might have been built and will not make intermediate stops. ROAR |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 13 12:24:19 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by jailhousedoc on Wed Aug 9 17:40:39 2017. Back in the 1950, we were lucky to get 179th St terminal, the Culver, Liberty Ave, and the Rockaway connectors. Extending the IND Queens line east of 179th St is just wishful thinking. Concentrate your energies on the SAS, south of 63rd Street! |
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Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?) |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Aug 13 12:50:06 2017, in response to Re: Underground Layup (Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?), posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Aug 13 12:08:49 2017. The streetcar / light rail / tram / whatever you want to call it option should also be looked into. Hillside and Jamaica / Jericho are wide enough to accommodate if properly planned. Or it could just take Route 25 proper (Hillside to Braddock to Jericho). |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Aug 13 13:14:22 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 13 12:24:19 2017. Plus the 179th Street Terminal is unique. There are NO OTHER four track local/express platform terminals within the NYC subway system where all trains begin & end at that terminal station. The 179th Street Terminal has been shown by daily/yearly usage to be actually capable of pumping out 30 trains per hour during the rush hours!The 179th Street Terminal is an extremely capable local/express terminal station. Mike |
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Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 13 15:50:18 2017, in response to Re: Question: Why No Station at 188th Street/Hillside Avenue?, posted by Michael549 on Sun Aug 13 13:14:22 2017. The lower level of 179 (local track side) only has room for 4 trains, all tracks ending in bumper blocks and it's a tight squeeze.After the MM who had a fatal heart attack and destroyed 2 R46 cars, near the bumper block they put in a signal where you have to stop and push a button that drives down a stop arm before you can proceed the rest of the way. The bottom line is it takes longer to relay downstairs than upstairs, which can fit 2 trains on some tracks. Therefore you can relay without dealing with a bumper block and the kind of signal that's downstairs. |
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