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| On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested (1445621) | |
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| (1445621) | |
On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Aug 5 05:57:32 2017 A passenger wanted to go from GCT to 125. Conductor told him his train only picked up passengers at 125. Cops arrived, conductor argued with them, got arrested. |
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| (1445639) | |
Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 5 12:31:57 2017, in response to On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Aug 5 05:57:32 2017. WTF? MTA Police are supposed to back up the conductor. Another detail, it was a New Haven line train. Did the MTA Police not know the rules? This conductor is hopefully going to get one hell of a pay day.Doesn't intentionally letting a customer disembark at 125th or Fordham violate the contract with Conndot? |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Aug 5 12:41:38 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 5 12:31:57 2017. Actually, yes, it does.The MTA and ConnDot are in for a huge lawsuit. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1445643) | |
Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 5 13:16:09 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Aug 5 12:41:38 2017. The MTA and ConnDot are in for a huge lawsuit.I doubt it. He's an employee. If they apologize and give him overtime pay for his time in jail and a bit of a bonus for hazardous duty he probably has limited recourse. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Aug 5 13:18:26 2017, in response to On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Aug 5 05:57:32 2017. First of all, the drunk just should have just got on the train & get off at 125 & claim ignorance or, if confronted, say he got on the wrong train. This whole incident could have been avoided if he never spoke to the conductor in the first place ( & hope the doors of his car open up at 125. Sometimes not all of them do.)Second, since the conductor was approached, how was he to know that the "drunk" wasn't some sort of quality control agent checking that he followed the rules? Years ago, MNRR used to have a few guys known as the "goon squad" (trainpersons term) who rode trains to see if train personnel followed all aspects of customer service, courtesy,safety, revenue protection, etc. These guys were all ex conductors btw so they knew the deal. But sometimes they went a little too far. Example, 8 car train & one trainperson and one of these quality control folks walks up to the guy & says, "theres a guy in the third car with his feet on the seat, check it out!" They had few friends. Point being,based on the story as reported, Mr Moran was doing his job in his interaction with the customer. Looks like he might hit the "Metro North Lotto" with this one. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Aug 5 13:25:59 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by AlM on Sat Aug 5 13:16:09 2017. employee has nothing to do with it, Railroad workers have to sue under FELA law |
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| (1445646) | |
Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 5 14:15:45 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Aug 5 13:25:59 2017. I was assuming from the context of the article that even though he was taken to the hospital, his injuries were not disabling. If he sustained serious injuries, I agree it would be different.What he isn't going to get is the $1 million for the humiliation of being arrested that regular people can demand in case of a false arrest. |
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| (1445647) | |
Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sat Aug 5 14:29:06 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by AlM on Sat Aug 5 14:15:45 2017. We do not know that it was a false arrest. Remember, you can be right about something, and still do something that gets you (legally) locked up. |
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| (1445648) | |
Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 5 14:36:37 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by pragmatist on Sat Aug 5 14:29:06 2017. Agreed, and that doesn't change the point of my posts. His chances of getting much more money than the cost of medical care and lost wages are low, no matter whether he was properly arrested or not. |
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| (1445660) | |
Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sat Aug 5 18:07:41 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by AlM on Sat Aug 5 14:36:37 2017. You are most likely correct. For an MTA cop to collar an MTA employee, there is definitely a "rest of the story" |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Aug 5 18:57:26 2017, in response to On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Aug 5 05:57:32 2017. I'm SURE there's more to the story. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sat Aug 5 19:01:07 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Aug 5 12:41:38 2017. If you ignorantly board the train at Grand Central and want to get off at 125 Street, what are the employees going to do? Physically stop you from leaving the train? Hold you hostage? |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Aug 5 19:14:16 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by G1Ravage on Sat Aug 5 19:01:07 2017. They can charge you for a trip to the next legal drop-off station. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 5 20:05:01 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Aug 5 18:57:26 2017. You always say that. |
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| (1445678) | |
Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Aug 5 21:47:01 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 5 20:05:01 2017. Because it's true.If you think for one moment that any cop is going to arrest an on-duty conductor "just because", you are mistaken. |
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| (1445682) | |
Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 5 22:29:52 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Aug 5 21:47:01 2017. You always defend the police regardless. I'm going to take your claims with a grain of salt. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Aug 5 22:46:39 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 5 22:29:52 2017. You have to be cerebral. You shouldn't be a sheeple. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Aug 5 22:58:01 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by italianstallion on Sat Aug 5 19:14:16 2017. Correct. In addition, whack him with an on board ticket purchase penalty. IIRC, on the NH line, Fordham is also a stop to recieve & not discharge station. So he gets charged to Mt Vernon. With that fare (peak) plus the onboard penalty, it would have been cheaper to take a cab! |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Aug 6 00:04:13 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Aug 5 12:41:38 2017. Just a simple question.Suppose an ordinary rider wanted to go from Grand Central station direct to 125th Street, or Fordham Road via Metro-North. What should they do? Which trains should they pay for and board? What would it cost? Mike PS - I realize that some folks may say, "take the subway" for a variety of reasons. I really just want to learn more about Metro-North, and this particular issue. |
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| (1445688) | |
Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 01:56:59 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Aug 5 22:58:01 2017. Why would he get charged the onboard peak fare and not simply a ride extension to Mount Vernon?Also, that policy would be somewhat tricky to enforce against someone traveling to 125th. They can just refuse to pay and agree to be kicked off at the next stop. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 02:00:56 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Michael549 on Sun Aug 6 00:04:13 2017. One can ride a Hudson or Harlem train. Not New Haven. |
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| (1445690) | |
Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 02:01:47 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 01:56:59 2017. But they have already committed fare evasion and may be arrested or fined upon exit. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 02:04:05 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Michael549 on Sun Aug 6 00:04:13 2017. Suppose an ordinary rider wanted to go from Grand Central station direct to 125th Street, or Fordham Road via Metro-North. What should they do? Which trains should they pay for and board? What would it cost?For 125th, use any Hudson or Harlem line train which stops there. Cost is $8 peak, $6 off-peak. ($14 and $12 respectively if purchased on board.) For Fordham, use any Harlem line train which stops there. Cost is $9.25 peak, $6.75 off-peak. ($15 and $13 respectively if purchased on board.) On the Grand Central departure boards, New Haven trains never list Fordham as their first stop since they don't "officially" stop there from the perspective of someone boarding in Grand Central. However, no trains list 125th as their first stop since virtually every train stops there— so somebody going to 125th would probably just board whichever train is leaving first regardless of its ultimate destination. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 02:04:42 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 02:01:47 2017. Not if they have a ticket. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 02:18:37 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 02:01:47 2017. Correction: Not if they have a ticket or enough cash to pay the onboard fare to 125th (not Mount Vernon). If a passenger boards at Grand Central with cash to pay the onboard fare to 125th but the conductor refuses to sell that ticket, then the passenger can legally exit at 125th without being subject to arrest or fine. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 02:23:03 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by AlM on Sat Aug 5 13:16:09 2017. I doubt it. He's an employee. If they apologize and give him overtime pay for his time in jail and a bit of a bonus for hazardous duty he probably has limited recourse.I doubt this C/R will be in service for a very long time. Getting arrested is a traumatic event. Even more so under these circumstances. If the passenger fell going down the stairs at 125 and MTA determined what train he got off then the C/R could be fired. So he did the right thing. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 02:32:11 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Aug 5 18:57:26 2017. never challenge a cops authority.For some reason they wanted to swing their dicks and let the passenger off at 125. Would be great if video emerges. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 05:59:35 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 02:18:37 2017. If a passenger boards at Grand Central with cash to pay the onboard fare to 125th but the conductor refuses to sell that ticket, then the passenger can legally exit at 125th without being subject to arrest or fine.I'm not convinced. It is very clearly stated on New Haven Line trains that the first stop where you can get off is Mt. Vernon East. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 08:53:47 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 05:59:35 2017. It is very clearly stated on New Haven Line trains that the first stop where you can get off is Mt. Vernon East.First, it's not "clearly stated" anywhere. In fact, I don't think it's mentioned at all aside from a vague and easily missed note on a schedule most people probably never look at in any detail. Second, even if it were "clearly stated," it wouldn't change the fact that a person who boards a New Haven train at Grand Central with a ticket to 125th (or cash to buy one onboard) cannot be fined or arrested upon exiting at 125th. This is because you can't be fined or arrested unless you've actually committed a crime. What crime could they possibly be arrested or fined for? |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 6 09:47:41 2017, in response to On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Aug 5 05:57:32 2017. These cops need to be informed about railroad rules and then they should be arrested for interfering with them. 😠 |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 09:56:14 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 08:53:47 2017. They can't be subject to arrest if they pay the fare to Mt. Vernon East. I'm not convinced the fare to 125th suffices. It could be considered theft of services: you're underpaying for your required minimum trip to Mt Vernon East. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Aug 6 10:05:11 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 02:32:11 2017. If it was the conductor and not a trainman that was removed, then the train stops there until the conductor is replaced. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Aug 6 10:09:37 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 02:18:37 2017. Straws, Grasping forSince C/R cannot sell a GCT-125 ticket, the best deal he can give is a GCT-MtV ticket, plus on-board fees. And yes it is a peek-a-boo ticket. ROAR Reality OTOH suggest udderwise. Him probly done this many times with no ticket collection until past 125 nobody would know. This time him got caught. C/R shoulda held him for PD and let the fuzz do the work. ROAR |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Aug 6 10:12:00 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 08:53:47 2017. You cannot buy what I cannot sell.I cannot seel a ticket to 125, I can only sell tickets to MtV. You can buy that from me our you can be arrested for theft of service. ROAR |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sun Aug 6 10:55:19 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 6 09:47:41 2017. MTA cops certainly are familiar with the rules. They are there to enforce them. The MTA Police Force was the result of the merger of the MNRR and LIRR Police. Whether or not they properly did things is a separate issue. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Aug 6 11:58:41 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Michael549 on Sun Aug 6 00:04:13 2017. "PS - I realize that some folks may say, "take the subway" for a variety of reasons..."As an aside here, you'd be suprised how many people absolutely positively refuse to take the subway from 125 to GCT. When I was a ticket agent there in the mid 90s, I would sell dozens of 125-GCT monthly, weekly, 10 trip & one way tickets. I always thought that was insane since the Lex Ave subway is a block away but hey if you have the $$$, knock yourself out! |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 6 12:10:52 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 6 09:47:41 2017. And these are MTA cops? They ought to be more familiar with the rules than the NYPD. Goldbrickers. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 12:31:14 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Aug 6 11:58:41 2017. dozensSo that's .0001% of the people who do the trip. :) |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sun Aug 6 14:31:26 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Aug 6 11:58:41 2017. I sometimes take the QM-4 express bus from my neighborhood into Manhattan. At the last stop before it runs express into Manhattan there are always people getting on and paying $6.50 to avoid the QnsBl subway lines a few blocks away at 71-Continental. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Aug 6 15:24:41 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by pragmatist on Sun Aug 6 14:31:26 2017. I knew a woman who lived in eastern Queens and worked in Manhattan and used only express buses-- never the subway. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sun Aug 6 16:10:22 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Aug 6 15:24:41 2017. In most of Eastern Queens you would be taking the bus to the subway, and many areas (like mine)you could choose either way. That's a little different from getting on the bus to avoid a subway that is right there, and goes to the same places. But lots of people hate taking the subway and don't mind paying extra for a reasonably comfortable seated ride. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Aug 6 16:22:28 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 09:56:14 2017. Yes. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Aug 6 17:07:37 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 02:04:05 2017. "no trains list 125th as their first stop"I know the big general boards don't, but what about the individual station listings on the boards for each track? |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Aug 6 17:58:00 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 01:56:59 2017. If he had a ticket to 125th st, say off peak, and the train he was on was peak & listed in the public timetables as stopping at 125th St to recieve passengers only, the conductor would be within his right to "step up" the ticket to Mt Vernon peak without charging him with the on board penalty, since he already had a ticket. But in the real world, this rarely happens since the conductor might not get to him on a crowded rush hr train.Or just takes the ticket & moves on with a "I'll let you slide this time..." speech. If the conductor dosen't get to him, 125 St, doors open, he gets off...with a good unpunched ticket. Then goes downstairs to the ticket office for a cash refund! Thats the way things were done in 2011 when I left. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 18:07:31 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by italianstallion on Sun Aug 6 17:07:37 2017. No. The Harlem Line ultra-locals list Melrose as the first stop. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 18:08:50 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Aug 6 17:58:00 2017. Then goes downstairs to the ticket office for a cash refund!Or keeps it for the next time he tries the maneuver. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Aug 6 18:44:28 2017, in response to On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Aug 5 05:57:32 2017. By the way, I don't believe anyone has explained the reason behind the rule (which makes it look like just something stupid). I had to deduce it from other information provided here. I presume that since the Connecticut Department of Transportation is subsidizing the New Haven line, it only wants to pay for people going to or from Connecticut. Similarly, Nassau County buses do not discharge eastbound passengers in Queens or board westbound passengers there. On the other hand, that doesn't explain why the rule applies only to 125 St. That makes it look more like a rule designed to keep out riff-raff, although Harlem, like other areas, has been making a comeback of sorts. |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 18:44:40 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Aug 6 10:12:00 2017. I cannot seel a ticket to 125, I can only sell tickets to MtV.Why can't you sell a ticket to 125th? You stop there, you have a quoted price for it, so sell it. You can buy that from me our you can be arrested for theft of service. Theft of service requires that you use services and not pay for them. What service did you steal? You didn't steal a trip from Grand Central to 125th because you paid for it (or offered to pay for it). You didn't steal a trip from 125th to Mount Vernon because you didn't actually take that trip; you got off at 125th. So what services did you steal? |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 18:44:43 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 09:56:14 2017. They can't be subject to arrest if they pay the fare to Mt. Vernon East. I'm not convinced the fare to 125th suffices.If you get off at 125th, then the fare to 125th suffices. It could be considered theft of services: you're underpaying for your required minimum trip to Mt Vernon East. It can't be considered theft of services because you've paid (or offered to pay) for the service you received. Theft of services requires that you refuse to pay for services you've used; it cannot be "theft of service" to refuse to pay for services you did not use but which the vendor deems "required." |
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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 6 18:44:46 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Aug 6 17:58:00 2017. If he had a ticket to 125th st, say off peak, and the train he was on was peak & listed in the public timetables as stopping at 125th St to recieve passengers only, the conductor would be within his right to "step up" the ticket to Mt Vernon peak without charging him with the on board penalty, since he already had a ticket.Actually, if the passenger was getting off at 125th they would be within their rights to pay only the step-up to a 125th peak. They're not going to Mount Vernon, why should they pay for it? Then goes downstairs to the ticket office for a cash refund! Can't refund a ticket for cash. The $10 refund fee is more than the ticket is worth. |
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