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| Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. (1436413) | |
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Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed May 17 10:39:34 2017 Naperville |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by jailhousedoc on Wed May 17 13:49:15 2017, in response to Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by TransitChuckG on Wed May 17 10:39:34 2017. and some say that gun control is not needed.... |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed May 17 15:30:47 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by jailhousedoc on Wed May 17 13:49:15 2017. Nobody should have guns to make a level playing field. But with all the illegal guns out there......... |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed May 17 18:03:07 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed May 17 15:30:47 2017. Nobody should have guns to make a level playing field.Agreed. But with all the illegal guns out there. "Illegal guns" were made legally and sold legally. They only became illegal when their legal owners sold them without the proper paperwork or sold them to the wrong person or lost them or had them stolen. Ban guns and the supply of "illegal" guns will quickly dry up since there won't be any new guns flowing into the market to replace the ones that get confiscated. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 17 20:38:56 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by jailhousedoc on Wed May 17 13:49:15 2017. kook control is needed.Here in ND any citizen in good standing (passed a check when th gun was purchased-and with no offenses, and mentally stable)can carry. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 17 20:40:28 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Nilet on Wed May 17 18:03:07 2017. The constitution does not permit the ban of guns and with good reason too. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 18 01:39:33 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 17 20:40:28 2017. The constitution does not permit the ban of gunsYes it does. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu May 18 06:56:33 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by jailhousedoc on Wed May 17 13:49:15 2017. No, we need senor citizen control. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu May 18 07:07:16 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by SLRT on Thu May 18 06:56:33 2017. He may have been insane long before he hit his 70's. We know nothing about him, can't diagnose dementia or anything else. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Thu May 18 13:31:25 2017, in response to Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by TransitChuckG on Wed May 17 10:39:34 2017. I imagine there's some background that will come out. Had there been a dispute between the passenger and conductor or another crew member earlier in the trip?Alan Follett Hercules, CA |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu May 18 16:59:53 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Nilet on Thu May 18 01:39:33 2017. Where? |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu May 18 17:27:14 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by randyo on Thu May 18 16:59:53 2017. There are many ways to interpret the 2nd amendment. That's why it's a controversial issue, not a simple boolean "right to bare arms" (or not). |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 18 19:02:29 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by randyo on Thu May 18 16:59:53 2017. It doesn't forbid banning guns. Therefore, a gun ban does not violate the constitution. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu May 18 19:09:47 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Alan Follett on Thu May 18 13:31:25 2017. I read in one of many articles that they had an earlier argument about his baggage with that conductor. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 18 23:45:02 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Joe V on Thu May 18 19:09:47 2017. As long as he didn't have any baggage with a redcap...; |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Fri May 19 11:51:07 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Nilet on Thu May 18 19:02:29 2017. Yeah, in by Nilet's logic the right to vote doesn't mean you have the right to vote (it's a 'collective right'), having a SWAT team break into your home because their informant was told to repeat that you had once smoked a joint is not a violation of the 4th, and words mean what the clever say they mean, possibly not what they said they meant yesterday.It was to provide a means for ejecting Nilets from government that the 2nd amendment was written. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri May 19 13:33:45 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Steamdriven on Fri May 19 11:51:07 2017. Regardless of whether or not he owned the gun legally, carrying it the train was not legal. Limited (not total) gun bans are most certainly constitutional, even Justice Scalia a strict constructionist, accepted that. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri May 19 17:29:40 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Nilet on Thu May 18 23:45:02 2017. And I read in another article today that he wanted to get off at Naperville, and they wouldn't let him. Frightened passengers wanted to get into the waiting room, but the ticket agent locked the door and told them to go to to the bathroom to get out of harm's way.There is a Go Fund Me link on Trainorders.com. The conductor is in critical condition, despite media reports. It will be a long time before he returns to work, if ever. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri May 19 18:47:39 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Steamdriven on Fri May 19 11:51:07 2017. Was any of that nonsense actually intended to mean anything?the right to vote doesn't mean you have the right to vote (it's a 'collective right') The right to vote is guaranteed by the Constitution. It's also a fundamental right, meaning that if it weren't in the Constitution, that would be a defect in the Constitution in need of amendment. Your belief that it's a "collective right" is true only in the sense that everyone has it despite the government violating that right. having a SWAT team break into your home because their informant was told to repeat that you had once smoked a joint is not a violation of the 4th I'm not sure where you got this idea, but it's patently untrue. The 4th Amendment specifically requires a warrant issued on the strength of probable cause; contrary to your belief, a coerced or coached informant's statement does not meet that standard. Moreover, the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure is a fundamental right. If that right were not in the Constitution, or if the Constitution's protection of that right were insufficient, then that would be a defect in the Constitution. Having a SWAT team break into your house over a drug crime even with a warrant would violate your fundamental right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure. and words mean what the clever say they mean, possibly not what they said they meant yesterday. If you regularly have trouble understanding what smarter people say, maybe you should pursue further education. It was to provide a means for ejecting Nilets from government that the 2nd amendment was written. This statement is completely meaningless. The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with ejecting anyone from government. The right to vote, the right to petition, the right to protest, the right to speech, and the impeachment process all touch on ejecting people from government, but the 2nd Amendment manifestly does not. The 2nd Amendment also contains absolutely no mention of guns or the banning thereof, which was the point of the post you are responding to, since you clearly forgot. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri May 19 18:51:56 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by pragmatist on Fri May 19 13:33:45 2017. See, what the gun nuts constantly fail to understand is that criminals don't obey the law. Banning guns on trains doesn't mean anything because criminals will simply disregard the ban and carry their gun onto the train.If you want to stop shootings, you need to make sure criminals don't have guns in the first place, and you can't do that by letting anyone except criminals have guns because criminals don't obey the law and won't care that they're individually banned from buying guns. What you need to do is ban guns outright, because criminals are perfectly happy to buy guns in violation of the law, but they can't buy guns that don't exist. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri May 19 19:59:08 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Nilet on Fri May 19 18:51:56 2017. From what I have read so far, the man was retired from some type of law enforcement, and even in the most strict gun control jurisdictions in this country would likely have a legal gun. He may or may not have even been aware that he was violating the law, by bringing the gun on the train, since there appear to be questions as to how much he is aware of about anything period. As people age or deteriorate for various reasons, we have very few reliable mechanisms for removing privileges. Same thing for driving. Not unheard of, but probably not as often as it should be. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri May 19 23:50:58 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Joe V on Fri May 19 17:29:40 2017. Frightened passengers wanted to get into the waiting room, but the ticket agent locked the door and told them to go to to the bathroom to get out of harm's way.Seriously??? Surprised there weren't more bullets flying, directed at the stationhouse door locks... |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by B1bus on Sat May 20 00:36:30 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Nilet on Fri May 19 18:51:56 2017. What about the guy who did legally check a gun on a plane, then shot people after he landed? |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat May 20 02:16:05 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Nilet on Fri May 19 18:47:39 2017. Actually, Nilet, you are wrong. There was a notorious case in Boston where the cops fraudulently obtained a warrant and stormed the wrong apartment. In the post incident investigations, it turned out that "informant # 6 who has previously provided good information" was an invented person whose completely made up "information" had been used numerous times by the narks to falsely obtain warrants.As with everything else we were taught to believe, when push comes to shove many corners are cut. And, if you read the decisions of the Burger, Rehnquist, and now Roberts led SCOTUS, the 4th Amendment has been shredded--with, I underline, the connivance of the strict constructionist/pseduo-originalists one of whom was excluded from full humanity by the "original framers". For all their talk about the sacred status of the words in the document as printed, they seem unwilling to believe that the protections in the Bill of Rights actually apply to EVERYONE. I am dismayed that a Conductor, presumably doing his job, was shot. If, as has been suggested the shooter is indeed suffering from senile dementia or equivalent, I believe his guns should be confiscated, as well as his driving privileges. Presumably, if tried and convicted he will spend most of the rest of his life behind bars. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat May 20 06:45:02 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri May 19 23:50:58 2017. Passengers tackled him.The one bullet damaged the conductor's liver, pancreas, and intestine. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat May 20 06:51:02 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by pragmatist on Fri May 19 13:33:45 2017. Amtrak regs call for guns to be checked baggage. His right to have a gun had been revoked anyway due to his mental competency.http://bit.ly/2rCBR4V "Passengers failing to meet the above-mentioned requirements for checking firearms will be denied transportation." |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Sun May 21 10:29:44 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Joe V on Fri May 19 17:29:40 2017. Any information on why he wouldn't have been allowed to leave the train at Naperville, even if ticketed to or through Chicago? Naperville is a discharge stop for the eastbound SW Chief.Alan Follett Hercules, CA |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 21 14:08:11 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by Alan Follett on Sun May 21 10:29:44 2017. From what I read, Naperville was not his stop, they sensed he was somewhat senile, should not be left roaming the streets of Naperville, would not open the door of his car, and decided it best to keep him on until Chicago.It is still uncertain if the conductor will survive. |
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Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 26 12:55:39 2017, in response to Amtrak Conductor shot by older man., posted by TransitChuckG on Wed May 17 10:39:34 2017. Arlington Heights Daily Herald
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri May 26 15:21:31 2017, in response to Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 26 12:55:39 2017. Mental evaluation = Unfit to stand trial. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Fri May 26 21:47:34 2017, in response to Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 26 12:55:39 2017. Muddier and muddier. So, this was the westbound Southwest Chief? All right, then, Naperville is a receive-only stop, and I suppose they were right, if not prudent, in saying he couldn't leave the train there; but why would he have had to go all the way to Kansas City, rather than Galesburg? And what's this about a plan to escort Klein at Union Station, which the train had already left? Or does this refer to Kansas City Union Station?Alan Follett Hercules, CA |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Fri May 26 21:49:31 2017, in response to Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 26 12:55:39 2017. Muddier and muddier. So, this was the westbound Southwest Chief? All right, then, Naperville is a receive-only stop, and I suppose they were right, if not prudent, in saying he couldn't leave the train there; but why would he have had to go all the way to Kansas City, rather than Galesburg? And what's this about a plan to escort Klein at Union Station, which the train had already left? Or does this refer to Kansas City Union Station?Alan Follett Hercules, CA |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat May 27 01:34:28 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation, posted by Alan Follett on Fri May 26 21:49:31 2017. Kansas City Union Station (which is a really nice station). Should have just let him off at the receive only stop with a "no refunds" stipulation. That said, if he had checked baggage, that would be a justifiable reason to make him wait until Kansas City. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Sat May 27 05:45:49 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat May 27 01:34:28 2017. Okay, thanks for clarifying. Galesburg is also a staffed station with baggage service, though I suppose it might have been harder to arrange an escort there if that was considered necessary.Alan Follett Hercules, CA |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation |
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Posted by AlM on Sat May 27 07:37:22 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation, posted by Alan Follett on Fri May 26 21:49:31 2017. The article is muddy, all right. But note that it says he did get off at Kansas City. This was the return trip.They said Klein became upset when he was told he couldn't exit the train until Kansas City, where he could get a return ticket to Milwaukee. Klein did just that, but not before causing a disturbance over a delay in Kansas City. At some point, Amtrak staff members realized Klein may have been in need of assistance and contacted other officials to meet Klein at Union Station and assist him in getting back to Milwaukee and ultimately to his living facility. Presumably KC was the next stop by the time he made his initial fuss. On the return trip they didn't want him getting off at Naperville because they had someone meeting him in Chicago. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Sat May 27 08:57:32 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation, posted by AlM on Sat May 27 07:37:22 2017. Ah, that explains it. That'll teach me not to read the text more closely (with some movement of the lips in the hard parts).Alan Follett Hercules, CA |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat May 27 11:26:35 2017, in response to Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 26 12:55:39 2017. The conductor has was upgraded from critical to serious condition this week, but his liver, pancreas , and intestine were all damaged. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat May 27 18:22:37 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation, posted by Alan Follett on Sat May 27 05:45:49 2017. IF Galesburg was receive only the baggage removal process might have delayed the train, since they were only set up to load bags and not unload any. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation |
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Posted by AlM on Sat May 27 18:39:28 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat May 27 18:22:37 2017. There is no reason to think Galesburg has anything whatsoever to do with this story. The train was probably between La Plata and Kansas City when he got agitated on the way westward. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter may be deemed mentally unfit |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jul 5 05:25:46 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter to undergo mental evaluation, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri May 26 15:21:31 2017. And a month later . . .WGN
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter may be deemed mentally unfit |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Jul 5 06:17:45 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter may be deemed mentally unfit, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jul 5 05:25:46 2017. Thanks for the update, Olog-hai. |
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Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter may be deemed mentally unfit |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Wed Jul 5 12:27:52 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Conductor shot by elderly man (Naperville IL); shooter may be deemed mentally unfit, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Jul 5 06:17:45 2017. Old or not, he still knew right from wrong. IMHO, he should be in a locked facility, whether that's a jail or a psych hospital. AND, if he's really that nuts, his kids should have seen to it that there were no weapons in his house.I hope Amtk will fully stand behind the conductor, and find a job at full pay for him when or if he recovers. Then let him take retirement a few years early, also at full pay. |
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