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| Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. (1412979) | |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Oct 23 20:09:47 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Oct 23 19:50:36 2016. I don't think there is any road railer service left anywhere in US. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Oct 23 20:15:52 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Oct 23 20:09:47 2016. I agree. What happened?? There was so much promise, so much alleged potential?? |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Oct 23 20:22:19 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Oct 23 20:15:52 2016. the trailers just did not last, so cost went up and up and up. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Oct 23 21:58:45 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 23 10:36:24 2016. Indeed, a lot easier than if there was no RoW there... |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 23 23:04:21 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 23 17:51:56 2016. I don’t really avoid as such, but by going via the Richmond Pky and Richmond Av, I can stop at the SI Mall and shop since many of my NJ gigs are in the early afternoon and the stores are still open. However, the SI Expwy sometimes tends to get backed up, so by going the Richmond Pky/Richmond Ave route to Victory Blvd. I can check for expwy traffic and if I see it’s barely moving, I stay on Victory to Clove Rd and therefore bypass the major congestion. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 23 23:10:29 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 23 17:49:19 2016. I would have no objection to that at all, however, the original IND planners unfortunately designed the bellmouths both at Roosevelt and 63 Dr to come off the lcl tks rather than the express restricting then class f service that can be operated there. Fortunately, the provisions at Van Wyck were constructed with a little more sense so that both locals and expresses can access them. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 24 07:16:15 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by randyo on Sun Oct 23 23:04:21 2016. In the AM rush hour, there's no avoiding eastbound traffic. Victory Blvd, Richmond Terrace, and the expressway are all disasters. The expressway would be better for me (I use the express bus) if the HOV lane was enforced... |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 24 07:17:34 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 23 17:58:24 2016. Yes, I have seen photos of the Flushing Line under constructionBTW, the Flushing Line is built into my user name :) |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 24 07:19:05 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 21 19:16:17 2016. It would cost THAT MUCH to put in SBS? Seriously? OMG.... |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 24 07:24:58 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 23 17:49:19 2016. Well, I'm a member of that "express bus crowd". I've also used the subway to reach many parts of the city. For example, I've traveled to Astoria by taking the express bus to midtown and transferring to the N/Q ...And from other experience, I can say that a trip along the 4th Avenue Local, after leaving SI would not be too attractive to me. What would work would be a tunnel directly from downtown to SI- instead of extending the R, extend the SAS!! But I also know that the astronomical cost of such a tunnel pretty much guarantees it won't ever happen. In light of costs, etc, I say the best rail option for Staten Island is local, subway-type service on the North Shore and Tottenville lines, and commuter rail from Port Ivory to NYP. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Oct 24 07:38:15 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Oct 23 20:22:19 2016. I worked for Gindy-Budd-Thayco, I forget when we built "road-railers", the idea never took off. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by WillD on Mon Oct 24 12:32:27 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 23 17:07:19 2016. But a shuttle operation between NJ and LI via Albany was what was mooted in the reply to which you responded, so "most" intermodal cars and what operates elsewhere in the country do not apply. The LIRR's network will mostly accommodate AAR F-plate equipment and as such there are a variety of spine and flat cars which are very capable of transporting containers onto Long Island. Trying to pretend otherwise is simply uninformed FUD. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Oct 24 12:55:41 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 24 07:16:15 2016. Yeah the Staten Isl Exp is a disaster from the AM rush to about 8pm nowadays. i have family on the west side of SI and 99% of the time after the bridge i take Clove Rd to either Forest Av or Richmond Terrace. If i'm going south to avoid the West Shore/SIE (Always backed up) Interchange turn lefft on south ave. After that area West Dhore Exp seems to move better. The crazy part is there's not much room to expand the Staten Island Exp anymore. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Oct 24 12:55:41 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 24 07:16:15 2016. Yeah the Staten Isl Exp is a disaster from the AM rush to about 8pm nowadays. i have family on the west side of SI and 99% of the time after the bridge i take Clove Rd to either Forest Av or Richmond Terrace. If i'm going south to avoid the West Shore/SIE (Always backed up) Interchange turn lefft on south ave. After that area West Dhore Exp seems to move better. The crazy part is there's not much room to expand the Staten Island Exp anymore. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Q4 on Mon Oct 24 13:30:26 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Oct 22 21:47:39 2016. The Valley Stream,Green Acres, Whitestone (Bruckner Interchange), Commack and Perth Amboy multiplexes were all owned by the Redstone chain and are all closed. The Valley Stream site has a bunch of stores going up as part of the Green Acres retail center (located outside of the mall), the Green Acres site (the theatre was originally brought from another chain to keep competition away from the Valley Stream site which was 1/2 mile away) was the first to go and is part of a Target, I don't know what is supposed to happen to the Whitestone site (I think the building is still there, the Commack site is a Lowes, and last time I drove by it this past spring or summer, the Amboy building is still there but abandoned. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 24 14:15:51 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Oct 22 21:47:39 2016. There's a Home Depot directly across the street from the Forest Ave. multiplex.. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 24 14:18:05 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Oct 24 12:55:41 2016. There's really no room to further expand it at all. And as the recent project shows, increasing the capacity simply invites even more traffic!!It would be better for me if the HOV rules were consistently enforced. But that's not enough of a solution... |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 24 14:20:45 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 24 14:18:05 2016. Nothing that infinite road tunnels under the Kill van Kull and Narrows can't fix, no? |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 24 15:56:49 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Oct 23 17:23:51 2016. Whatever the City did, it was put out for bids to complete the tunnel. None were received. With Hylan out of office, after 1925, there were no real proponents for the project. So, Al Smith got his way! |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 17:49:48 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Oct 23 19:50:36 2016. Amtrak had a bitch of a time maintaining the road-railer bogies. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 18:02:15 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by WillD on Mon Oct 24 12:32:27 2016. If there is something available, and the Class I's are willing to shift say a container off a double stack from Seattle and plop it on a spine car in Selkirk, OK fine. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 24 18:30:42 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 17:49:48 2016. I remember seeing them on the Chicago-NYC Broadway Ltd behind those "AmBoxes" from their Amtrak Package express service days. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 24 18:42:26 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 23 11:36:49 2016. I'm equally eager to read the report. Hopefully it won't be LITP2000 level of skewing |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 18:45:58 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 24 18:30:42 2016. The Three Rivers was famous for it. They also had multiple incidents of one of the bogies collapsing en route, and having to spend a couple of hours cutting them off and leaving on a siding. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 24 19:15:27 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 18:45:58 2016. Whatever happened to that "Amtrak Package Express" business anyway?? I have an "America By Rail" video where they showcase the "Southwest Limited" from Chicago to L.A. Each train had at least 6 Amboxes in the consist. The must have had several such cars in their fleet. Seemed at the time the railroad was cashing in as in a brisk business needing at least 6 boxes per train. Where are they now? |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 24 19:15:28 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 24 07:24:58 2016. What about a commuter service from St George to NYP via EWR and Newark? Restructure some SI bus routes to become feeders and you have rail service to both the ferry for downtown travelers and direct into midtown. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 19:35:42 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 24 19:15:27 2016. Gunn killed the whole M&E business in 2005. I don't know what they did with all the equipment. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 24 20:58:49 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 24 14:18:05 2016. The elephant in the room is the Korean War Veterans Parkway, which needs to be remapped and finished, regardless of what NIMBYs and clueless politicians think. And the Outerbridge Crossing needs at least a twinning and more likely a complete rebuild just like the Goethals Bridge. As for the traffic, it will come even if nothing is built.Of course, more rail transit options are important too. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 24 21:00:09 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by AlM on Sun Oct 23 12:24:40 2016. Wouldn't an offset require altering clearances at every station? Height wise, they purposely built the Willis Av bridge to clear double stacks, or so I'm told. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 24 21:00:58 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by randyo on Sun Oct 23 23:10:29 2016. In retrospect, those local-only bellmouths are a huge mistake. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 24 21:01:51 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Oct 23 15:42:35 2016. What about the intermodal yard in Yaphank? Although, apparently intermodal cars have an issue with 3rd rail clearances according to Joe V. Is this all intermodal types, or just the well cars? |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 24 21:04:14 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Oct 23 15:53:03 2016. Having to be transferred to truck doesn't defeat the whole purpose if the purpose is to reduce truck traffic on the NYC infrastructure. Getting LI destined truck freight onto the island before being transferred to truck would be a boon to traffic reduction on the choke points like the Goethals Bridge as well as BQE and LIE in Queens and western Nassau. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 24 21:05:21 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Oct 23 15:52:30 2016. No weight restriction for BQE and VZ route as far as I'm aware. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 24 21:07:07 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 18:02:15 2016. But why not do it in Jersey and run express from NJ to LI via Selkirk? Why does the reclassification have to be done in Selkirk? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 24 21:11:16 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Oct 23 19:50:36 2016. That's perhaps the biggest problem with Long Island freight movement in general. Very little gets produced on LI. AFAIK, truckers hate coming to LI because it means empty miles going back. The problem would be the same with rail freight until manufacturing could grow on the island. How much outbound freight does NYA haul currently? |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Mon Oct 24 21:32:36 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 24 21:11:16 2016. $15 min wage and huge cooporate and electric tax rates. Never coming back |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 24 21:35:19 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by randyo on Sun Oct 23 23:10:29 2016. there is also the bellmouth into the northbound 8th ave. local track from the worth st. connection correct?Is the soutbound bellmouth from 8th ave. to the worth st. connection also off the s. bound 8th ave. local track? I thought I'd seen that from an RFw but don't remember. Thanks |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 24 21:43:19 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 23 17:49:19 2016. Might work if they got rid of those awful timers on 4th Ave! |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Oct 24 22:09:50 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 24 20:58:49 2016. Cutting across Staten Island on the KWVP would be great, would be able to avoid most of the Staten Island Expressway. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Oct 25 07:38:33 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 24 21:07:07 2016. Reclassification happens en every major yard. Movements are only classified to the next yard, not beyond. (sort of, anyway)They could run a NJ to Forest Park train via Selkirk, but if there is other stuff on the train, then breaking it up *is* reclassifying it. They would still change the locomotives at Selkook. ROAR |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Oct 25 12:31:24 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 18:02:15 2016. That's not what AlM was talking about in this subthread. He said"And consider the much cheaper alternative, which is to improve the trackage on both sides of the Hudson. Then assemble a daily train bound for LI somewhere in North Jersey and send it direct to a yard in LI. Get the same time savings for far less money."He specifically was referencing a shuttle train assembled from trucks arriving in NJ and going to LI via Selkirk. Discussing intermodal operations in the rest of the country does not apply to his proposal. A captive pool of equipment could easily be purchased which would be compatible with every aspect of the trip between NJ, LI and back. And even then you're vastly underestimating the freight railroads' ability to tailor their rolling stock allocation to the loading gauge of a given route. Both CSX and NS still have portions of their network which cannot accommodate AAR Plate H clearances, yet they manage to run intermodal traffic into those locations without incident. |
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Posted by Michael549 on Tue Oct 25 12:42:21 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 24 14:15:51 2016. That was the very first sentence of the message that he responded to.Thanks. Mike |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 25 14:59:18 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by N6 Limited on Mon Oct 24 22:09:50 2016. That wouldn’t be a bad idea, but based on what I see and consistent with my other post, it should be built with rapid transit in the median. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 25 15:13:17 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 24 21:00:58 2016. I agree. While the IND had a reputation for building a more efficient system than the privates, there are many places where they dropped the ball entirely. Qns Plaza should have been set up with a flying junction and wyes so that both local and express tracks can access both 53 St and the Crosstown Line. Canal St should also have been set up similarly so that both lcls and exps could access both the setup terminal at WTC and the tracks to the Cranberry St tube. Jay St and 50/6 likewise so that convenient access to both uptown Manhattan and Qns could be achieved much like the access to 63 St. Back to the bellmouths in Qns, since the Rockaways are a bit longer distance than Jamaica, the bellmouths for those connections should have been built like Van Wyck, the junction points at 135St, 59 St and 42/8 for maximum flexibility. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 25 15:18:26 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 24 21:35:19 2016. Correct. Those bellmouths were supposed to connect to the Worth St subway, provision for which exists in the mezzanine of E Bway station and eventually to So 4 St which also had a station shell built for it. Another location where the iND dropped the ball is 2 Ave which only has provision for the exp tks to go through the So 4 St. For some reason, the iND was designed so that passengers from Queens would be stuck on trains that run local in Manhattan who passengers from uptown Manhattan and the Bronx would enjoy express service. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 25 18:53:40 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 24 21:00:09 2016. I see zero chance of dual gauge or gauntlet track on the LIRR. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 25 18:55:51 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 24 21:01:51 2016. Definitely the well cars. Tri-level autoracks will never fit. Never seen them do piggyback. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 25 19:57:53 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by randyo on Tue Oct 25 15:13:17 2016. IND mentality seemed to have been locals are to feed expresses, so they did not care if the Rockaways, Ozone Park, Woodhaven, and Parkside had to change at Jackson Hts. They were the same status as all the local stops between Forest Hills and Queens Plaza, served by the non-Manhattan GG no less.For Van Wyck, they had an airport service in mind, so it got a streamlined junction. For the RBB, they probably thought it would be a smaller market and with part of it already served by 2 BMT lines. I could see its revival as something on the order of London Overground. It is sort of a hybrid rapid transit and commuter rail with short trains on peripheral lines, and in the case of East London, a takeover of a rather decrepit Underground route in a dangerous area, all of which are now much improved. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Oct 25 20:27:49 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by N6 Limited on Mon Oct 24 22:09:50 2016. Keep in mind that the Verrazano Bridge has six lanes each way. Even with the HOV lanes on the expressway, that leaves four lanes with nowhere to go. Those four lanes need to be connected to the parkway or else Staten island will always be a mess. Maybe putting mass transit down the median isn't such a bad idea, but the parkway runs fairly close to SIRT, and some may argue that a parkway shouldn't have an ugly rail line down the middle. However, the parkway is really a parkway in name and regulations only-- what was built was nothing like Moses' earlier parkways; it resembles a modern expressway more than a more traditional parkway. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Oct 26 13:42:59 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 25 19:57:53 2016. The only issue is you're still packing people onto the already crowded QB Express trains, and at one of the most crowded stops at that. What is it, Woodhaven Blvd, that could be made into an express stop? That could mitigate a bit of the platform crowding from transfers. Given what we saw about the ROW for the super express in the other thread, I wonder if it could be hooked into the QB local tracks. That way, RBB comes up, runs local for a few stops to at least Jackson Hts, then express again. That could possibly get some folks to stay on it, or even keep folks from those local stops off the current QB express services. |
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