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| Staten Island rail tunnel. (1412979) | |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Oct 17 10:35:59 2016, in response to Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 08:25:36 2016. BARF...Boat costs 20-30 minutes, (R) train from Fort Ham costs 30-40 minutes. Enough said. BUT I *will* say more: an LRV from St. George up Victory Blvd would be far more beneficial. Can even have such a line running across the gang plant and following I-278 frontage roads also up to and beyond Victory. The North Sore line should also be put into service. ROAR |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 17 13:27:36 2016, in response to Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 08:25:36 2016. Have him contact tunnelrat. lolBill Newkirk |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 17 14:21:24 2016, in response to Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 08:25:36 2016. I like the, "...if the MTA suddenly became flush with many billions of dollars for a project like that". Just where is this $$$ coming from? |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Allan on Mon Oct 17 14:26:41 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Oct 17 10:35:59 2016. "The North Sore line should also be put into service"The MTA would be very sore in the pocketbook if they decide to go thru with that. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 17 17:07:19 2016, in response to Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 08:25:36 2016. The R is a miserably slow ride as it is, extending it to SI never made sense. What about running commuter rail from St George, via the North Shore Branch and up the NEC into NYP? There used to be a connection between the two lines ages ago (you can see the traces of it on google maps). And if Gateway could be hooked into ESA, you could even have it continue to GCT. Hooray! |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Oct 17 17:58:02 2016, in response to Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 08:25:36 2016. I know this is has almost 0% chance of happaning but i would make the tunnel for railroads (and reactivate the Northshore line in SI) not subway. This would benefit the NY tristate area in multiple ways.1. Frieghts can use this crossing from the Hell's Gate Bridge to the Bay Ridge line and use the north shore line to get to Jersey from the east. 2. SIR technically being a RR can use this crossing also and also use the newly activated Northshore line. -SIR can terminate at 4th Av 59th street where ppl can transfer to the N or R to the city. Time the connections with the Exp N. Or make a dual level tunnel like 63rd st and make SIR a 100% subway and habe it connect to the 4th ave line at 59th street and continue to the City |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Oct 17 19:53:14 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Oct 17 17:58:02 2016. the dept of a tunnel in that area would in 100 to 150 feet range. the charts show the anchorage as having water depth of 47 to 73 feet deep . considering ships are dropping anchors of 20 to 30 tons these days.you will find tunnel to be getting to surface even further than what MTA suggest. http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/12327.shtml |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Oct 17 20:02:42 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Oct 17 19:53:14 2016. Yeah that's a huge issue with the tunnel making it complicated and very expensive. Of course for freight ventilation would be another issue. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Oct 17 20:25:21 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Oct 17 20:02:42 2016. what freight?? there really is non left in NY LIRR and New Haven corridor. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 17 20:49:42 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Oct 17 20:25:21 2016. NYAR on Long Island handles 28,000 carloads yearly on avarage. Thats some freight. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Oct 17 21:23:47 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Oct 17 20:25:21 2016. Based on the trucks on the road the market for rail freight is there if there was a efficient way to cross the Hudson via rail. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Oct 17 22:13:29 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 17 20:49:42 2016. yes but only 5 % originates in NJ |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Oct 17 22:15:12 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Oct 17 21:23:47 2016. Ok lets assume a container get to port Elisabeth , by rail even with a tunnel it would take a day to get car to any designation on Island. it takes an hour or two by truck, nuff said. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 18 09:44:54 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Oct 17 10:35:59 2016. I say reactivate the North Shore Line from Arlington to St. George using the same equipment and service type as is done on the Tottenville Line. If the NIMBYs in Mariner's Harbor complain, the service can run from Port Richmond to St. George. There are practically no residential properties on the ROW between those points.But this time, put in a few strategically placed Park-and-Ride lots. I bet this would take a lot of private cars and taxis off the roads in rush hour. The S40 bus would become unnecessary, and the S46 could be reconfigured into a few feeder routes. THEN, in my real pipe dream, commuter rail could run from Arlington, over the AK Bridge, to the NE Corridor and into NYP (once that venue is expanded...) |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 18 09:45:51 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 17 17:07:19 2016. YES YES!!! |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Michael549 on Tue Oct 18 14:20:13 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 18 09:44:54 2016. From a previous message:" The S40 bus would become unnecessary,.." FLAT OUT DISAGREE! If your proposed line were to run from St. George to Port Richmond - then basically you have only "covered" half of the S40 bus run, and neglected to provide service to Mariner's Harbor, and other places. Plus I completely object to the removal of a productive bus line that takes me direct from my home to the movies and back! As well as other places along the route! Go mess with somebody else's bus! Mike |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Dan on Tue Oct 18 17:17:27 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Michael549 on Tue Oct 18 14:20:13 2016. 'Plus I completely object to the removal of a productive bus line that takes me direct from my home to the movies and back! As well as other places along the route!I like your honesty! |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Oct 18 18:21:31 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Michael549 on Tue Oct 18 14:20:13 2016. The S40 (former S1) would still be necessary either way. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Oct 18 20:57:17 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dan on Tue Oct 18 17:17:27 2016. From your home to the movies??? |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Oct 19 09:06:13 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 17 14:21:24 2016. Poker winnings. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Oct 19 09:08:19 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 17 17:07:19 2016. More feasible and sometimes suggested would be extending HBLR to St. George. Yeah, it needs a transfer at Hoboken but it would be a lot better than you have now and faster and cheaper to build. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Oct 19 19:30:26 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Oct 17 22:15:12 2016. Ok lets assume a carload of lumber, for argument sake is destined for a consignee on Long Island. Day one, It arrives in Jersey, switched out & up to Selkirk. Day two, calssified there & sent down the east side of the Hudson to oak Point. Day three, sent down to Fresh Pond to the NYAR. Day four, delivered.With a cross harbor tunnel, day one lands in New Jersey, day two, jersey to Fresh Pond, day three delivered. Day saved with tunnel, at least. Multiply that times thousands of carloads per year, time savings add up. Nuff Said |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Oct 19 21:49:41 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 17 14:21:24 2016. lots of printing presses... |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Wed Oct 19 22:45:53 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Oct 19 19:30:26 2016. Good post. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Oct 20 03:24:27 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Elkeeper on Tue Oct 18 20:57:17 2016. I live on Richmond Terrace in the St. George/Brighton area while the UA Movie Theater is located at 2474 Forest Avenue, Staten Island, NY 10303 - across the street from the Home Depot. On the S40 bus it is a straight direct one seat ride - except rush hours. In short one is traveling from almost one end of the bus line to the other end of the same bus line. Usually it is a 20-minute trip once one has learned the bus schedule.Plus the S40 has easy access to the shopping - Kohl's, Loews, and other stores along that section of Forest Avenue. So why mess with a functioning bus route? ---- Prior to this theater opening there WAS a movie theater with 14 screens in Travis along Victory Blvd and the Staten Island Expressway near the end of the S62 Bus, and for me requiring a transfer - easily 40-minutes to an hour of travel time. There is another movie theater at the Hylan Mall Plaza shopping center along Hylan Blvd with the S78 & S79 buses - all requiring a transfer and often an hour of travel time. And there is another theater called the Atrium Cinema at 680 Arthur Kill Rd., Staten Island, NY 10308 - south of the Staten Island Mall. To reach this theater requires a transfer to the S74 bus - nothing less than an hour. Out of all of the methods of getting to and from the movies on Staten Island - the current situation with the S40 and the theater on Forest Avenue is THE BEST! THE EASIEST AND THE QUICKEST! Yes, of course there are theaters in Battery Park City, or on Court Street in Brooklyn - both requiring a ferry trip. Plus there are theaters in New Jersey requiring a car trip and tolls. New Jersey by public transit requires a ferry ride, a subway ride and a trip on PATH to the NewPort Mall just to go to the movies - I think not. I am a Star Trek fan, and plus there are a few other movies that I like to see. Plus if there is a new remake of the "Taking Of The Pelham 123" . . . Mike |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 21 07:21:29 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Michael549 on Tue Oct 18 14:20:13 2016. Well, partially fair enough. If a revived NS line can't get west of Port Richmond because of NIMBYs, then connecting service would need to be provided. And, as you point out the movie theater/Home Depot/Lowe's area needs service as well.But think of it this way- the bus routes were deliberately configured in 1947 or so in such a way as to kill the railway line. As shameful as that was, at least back then there wasn't much traffic on Staten Island. Now, between all the people that have moved in (myself included) and the people from NJ and PA who treat us like driveover country, traveling east/west or west/east during rush hour is a terrible experience, in a car or on a local bus. Rebuilding the expressway at a cost of how many hundreds of million $$ made little, if any difference, IMO. The only way that might work is rail service. I suppose the best route might actually be along I-278, with a concrete structure similar to Air Train (but hopefully with R211s). Unfortunately, with the astronomical construction costs and NIMBYs, that is beyond highly unlikely. In my estimation of human nature and politics, the only plan that stands even a tiny, remote chance (and that's all it is...) is revival of the North Shore line. Ideally, it would run from the Ferry to the Goethals Bridge area- as it DID. But west of Port Richmond, the ROW runs near houses- more NIMBYs to complain. East of Port Richmond, there's nothing but industrial property along the ROW. If the politicians finally got their act together, and are now at the cusp of opening a significant piece of the SAS, surely a project such this is also doable. And I'll concede zero experience/expertise in bus planning. But IF the NS line ever re-opened, bus service should be designed to support it. But obviously, no area should lose transit service. I'll leave the details to others. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Oct 21 10:36:28 2016, in response to Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 08:25:36 2016. Thanks for posting.The letter clearly sets out the obstacles to a subway connection. I wish the Queens BP would ask Mr. Prendergast about the feasibility of restoring the LIRR Rockaway Line. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Oct 21 11:05:54 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Mitch45 on Fri Oct 21 10:36:28 2016. The letter clearly sets out the obstacles to a subway connectionAll of which were erected by government. And at least they admit it. They're also thinking in terms of only subsuming the present SIR line into the R train and not creating a new line, e.g. a Victory Boulevard subway line. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Richster on Fri Oct 21 11:09:17 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Mitch45 on Fri Oct 21 10:36:28 2016. According to an article in one o the local Queens newspapers, there has been a study going on by the MTA, since June, concerning the Rockaway Beach Line. The study is supposed to be through by June 2017. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Oct 21 13:32:50 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Richster on Fri Oct 21 11:09:17 2016. pwn3d |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 21 18:09:45 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Mitch45 on Fri Oct 21 10:36:28 2016. The Woodhaven Blvd's SBS hidden agenda is to forever kill the RBB, supplanting Quuensway Park. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 21 18:11:02 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Richster on Fri Oct 21 11:09:17 2016. And what do you really expect the MTA to conclude ? |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 21 18:56:10 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 21 18:09:45 2016. That doesn't make sense. By that logic, the 2nd Avenue SBS has killed the SAS.Now Queensway would kill RBB for good. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 21 18:56:42 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Oct 21 11:05:54 2016. Did you ever learn to read? |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 21 18:58:26 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 21 18:11:02 2016. They'll conclude exactly what all these studies could and would conclude what the costs, benefits and impacts of the RBB would be. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 21 19:13:22 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 21 18:58:26 2016. And also to say not worthwhile. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 21 19:16:17 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 21 18:56:10 2016. There's a hell of a lot more people traveling down the Manhattan east side than on Woodhaven Blvd buses. SAS is there to relive the Lex. If they piss away $200 Million on WBB SBS, there is no chance MTA will say RBB is worth any effort. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Oct 21 19:17:28 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 21 18:56:10 2016. Now Queensway would kill RBB for good.Yup, once rails go trails, they never return. Actually I think Woodhaven Blvd SBS would *help* the RBB restoration. If the corridor is served with artics every 2-3 minutes with off board fare collection and *still* has overcrowded buses and traffic, it it will pressure them to put a train in. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 21 19:29:09 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Oct 21 19:17:28 2016. They'll just say we already invested money in this neck in the woods, now we have to move on to Utica Ave subway or some place else. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 21 20:20:15 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 21 19:16:17 2016. Sunk Cost Fallacy. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 21 20:20:43 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 21 19:13:22 2016. No. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Oct 22 04:22:50 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 21 07:21:29 2016. Several times on this forum and others - folks would bring up a revival of the North Shore rail-line, and usually my basic point is that the land uses and situation on the island has changed since the 1950's. So a simple revival would not "by magic" solve several transportation problems on Staten Island.However there are some folks when it comes to improving transit on Staten Island ritually repeat the mantra - "Restore The North Shore!" - with glazed eyes and a zombie stare. I'm not kidding! A few years ago there was a North Shore Alternatives Analysis - a study done by the MTA one whether to restore the North Shore, or create a kind of bus rapid transit, or light rail system. The planning team looked at each of the alternatives, costs, benefits, etc. and included their analysis in their reports. The reports and maps were previously available on the MTA website. These reports were actually rather good reading on the issues. The planning team also held meetings at the Sung Harbor Center which I attended faithfully. The team preferred creating a bus-rapid transit operation on the North Shore railway right of way as a way to spread the benefits of improved transit to more sections of the island. At the meetings - there were transit fan-folk who repeatedly shouted down the speakers - crying "Restore The North Shore!" The issues of funding, bang for buck, improved ridership, and/or the changes in land uses, population and the locations of places that folks want to travel to and from - simply did not register with these folks. Like Pavlov's Dogs - the mantra - "Restore The North Shore!" was all they could repeat! There are simply plenty of places on the interior of Staten Island that folks want and need to travel to and from that are NO WHERE NEAR THE NORTH SHORE RAIL-LINE - and improving transit for those places just seems to be off of anyone's radar. This is similar to the folks that want to build a light rail line along the western highway on Staten Island - that skips the populated areas, that skips the important places that folks want to go to - all under the guise that finally something is being done. Saying such stuff almost gets one banned from the "transit fan club" - but the truth has to be told. Not every old right of way serves the needs of today's or tomorrow's transportation situation - and is thus a candidate for revival. Just my thoughts. Mike |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 22 06:33:34 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 21 20:20:43 2016. Do you actually think they will come out and say it's worthwhile, let's do it ?The only things that interests MTA is SAS, ESA, and expanding the LIRR spine from Jamaica to Ronkonkoma. For anyone else, get them an SBS route. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 22 06:34:48 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 21 20:20:15 2016. Yes, sunk cost, and "we are not sinking any more over there". |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 22 07:30:11 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Michael549 on Sat Oct 22 04:22:50 2016. Populations tend to shift toward rail transit corridors and stations. If the North Shore Line were to come back, people will move to it. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by alm on Sat Oct 22 07:51:22 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 21 20:20:15 2016. But government spending often adheres to the sunk cost fallacy. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 22 09:55:52 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by alm on Sat Oct 22 07:51:22 2016. Which is a shame. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 22 10:58:19 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by alm on Sat Oct 22 07:51:22 2016. There is no doubt in my mind that they will use this 2017 RBB study to kill it once and for all, and here's your SBS bus. |
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Re: Staten Island rail tunnel. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 22 15:22:00 2016, in response to Re: Staten Island rail tunnel., posted by Michael549 on Sat Oct 22 04:22:50 2016. Has there ever been any thought given to using the medians of the expressways and Parkways in SI for rapid transit as was done in Chicago and the DC area? |
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