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| Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal (1406616) | |
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| (1406616) | |
Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by heypaul on Sun Aug 28 08:02:34 2016 Ditmars Blvd is a scary station. More than 50 years ago, I remember feeling that the train was going to fall to the ground as it approached the terminal block.And then about a week ago, I was on an n/b N train leaving Astoria Blvd heading to the last stop. On the way I noted a s/b N leaving Ditmars Blvd. Anyway, we pulled in and I quickly recorded the sound of the train dumping its air, to add to my collection of approximately 28,000 similar sound recordings. I remained on the train. After a couple of minutes, I was shocked to see the display saying that we were now a Q train, my homeline train. How could a Sea Beach Fred's set of cars be relegated to serving The Brighton line, without at least some effort to fumigate the cars? |
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| (1406617) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Handbrake on Sun Aug 28 08:32:59 2016, in response to Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by heypaul on Sun Aug 28 08:02:34 2016. Re-flagging a train in revenue service at a terminal, such as Astoria Ditmars Blvd, is routine at that terminal with digital route destination display equipment. Happens all the time at Ditmars. Something that could not be done as easily with legacy cars equipped with manual roll signs (I have once observed R44/46 equipment as originally delivered, could remotely change roll sign designations).The term "fumigation" to clear out a train of customers at a terminal or other point is not a term used by RTO as many on this forum are led to believe. Because one transit employee may have been overhead to use the term "fumigation", does not make it a universal system wide term. |
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| (1406621) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 28 09:43:03 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Handbrake on Sun Aug 28 08:32:59 2016. The term "fumigation" to clear out a train of customers at a terminal or other point is not a term used by RTO as many on this forum are led to believe.So what term is used for clearing out the passengers at an end point where the train is at least temporarily going out of service (like Continental)? Just curious what nice simple word they use (or if like the rest of us they can't think of one). |
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| (1406623) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 28 09:59:33 2016, in response to Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by heypaul on Sun Aug 28 08:02:34 2016. This is why the N and Q need to be R160 all the time, cuz they don't always arrive properly staggered. This was a problem in the R68/R40 era. |
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| (1406624) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sun Aug 28 10:04:17 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 28 09:43:03 2016. I've heard "discharge." |
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| (1406629) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by handbrake on Sun Aug 28 10:12:06 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by merrick1 on Sun Aug 28 10:04:17 2016. Correct. Fumigation is slang of Sub-Chat. Train crews are instructed to "Clear out" a train where a train is either scheduled to be laid up/taken out of service, or when a train changes direction at a terminal where a relay is performed. Customers are discharged due to reasons of basic safety. |
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| (1406630) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 28 10:12:49 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 28 09:43:03 2016. "Clean it out" (meaning cleaning it out of passengers). |
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| (1406631) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 28 10:17:46 2016, in response to Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by heypaul on Sun Aug 28 08:02:34 2016. Perhaps 2 N's in a row arrived with a late Q and it's Q follower right behind. They did it to have an on time Q departure. They would balance the service out by changing over the next Q to N. |
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| (1406632) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by BrooklynTrain on Sun Aug 28 10:19:14 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 28 09:59:33 2016. The N and Q routinely pull into Ditmars far behind schedule weekday evenings due to the chokepoint/merge at 34th/Bwy, and routinely leave Ditmars way off schedule in the evenings, so I'm not surprised they change the N into a Q (and vice-versa) at Ditmars to help mitigate these gaps in service. Hopefully the return of the N to the express tracks in early November will put this issue to bed. |
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| (1406634) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by handbrake on Sun Aug 28 10:58:25 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by BrooklynTrain on Sun Aug 28 10:19:14 2016. Maybe not, since the N will merge with the R at 34th to make a station stop at 47/49th Street. City Hall Master Tower is one big choke point |
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| (1406638) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sun Aug 28 12:29:57 2016, in response to Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by heypaul on Sun Aug 28 08:02:34 2016. Heypaul: Isn't transmogriforniction what they used to do on 8th Avenue back in the 60's? It usually came right after the sharp-shooter completion. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1406642) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Aug 28 15:06:20 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by handbrake on Sun Aug 28 10:58:25 2016. The N should be straight railed into 57th st...no stopping at 49th.No more choke points between the express and local. |
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| (1406648) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Aug 28 16:09:15 2016, in response to Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by heypaul on Sun Aug 28 08:02:34 2016. No more scary than any elevated terminal. |
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| (1406654) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 28 16:33:17 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Edwards! on Sun Aug 28 15:06:20 2016. That was how it was done pre Chrystie when the West End Exp ran to Astoria. West End trains ran express to 57 S and Xed over to get to the 60 St Tunnel The only thing I don’t remember from my days as a Tw/M is whether they Xed over S/O the station or N/O the station although I suspect it was S/O the station since at the time both Sea Beach and Brighton trains turned at 57 St. Operationally, the N probably wouldn’t be straight railed into 57 St since the train would need to come into 57 St on the lcl tk to punch in to identify itself to C/Hall tower. |
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| (1406656) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 28 16:36:07 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Handbrake on Sun Aug 28 08:32:59 2016. I believe the same thing is done at Flatbush Av IRT since the 2 and 5 share the same fleet. Flatbush has always had a congestion problem and if a 5 has to come ion on the track normally served by the 2 and vice versa, trains are converted to the other service as needed. |
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| (1406666) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Aug 28 18:35:31 2016, in response to Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by heypaul on Sun Aug 28 08:02:34 2016. heypaul,re: "my collection of approximately 28,000 similar sound recordings" do you have any recordings of Hi-V's in your collection? Thanks. Express Rider |
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| (1406667) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 28 18:40:15 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 28 09:43:03 2016. Thanks all for the responses. |
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| (1406668) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 28 18:48:22 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 28 18:40:15 2016. Whilst waiting for someone current to answer, they called it "discharge" back in my time. |
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| (1406672) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Handbrake on Sun Aug 28 19:50:41 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 28 16:33:17 2016. T West End trains ran to/from 57th street express, and crossed over at the diamonds S/O the 57th Street station during rush hour. I found it interesting that northbound T's did not loiter for very long to cross over from A3 to A1, as compared to present day delays at 34th/Herald Square. Bless those Master Towers for giving wrong line ups, and the TO's that take them |
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| (1406684) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 28 21:58:27 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 28 18:48:22 2016. Did the expression, "dump its load" refer to discharging all passengers en route for an unexpected reason? |
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| (1406687) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 28 22:23:16 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 28 21:58:27 2016. Nah ... just the motorman if they blew through a red. :) |
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| (1406695) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Abba on Mon Aug 29 01:01:56 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 28 16:36:07 2016. Actually Flatbush has been a lot better lately.More often then not no waiting at newkirk,no waiting at Flatbush many times right in. A few weeks ago though we were stuck right before the terminal with no trains in the terminal.The tower didn't realize a train was there! |
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| (1406698) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 29 06:30:55 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by BrooklynTrain on Sun Aug 28 10:19:14 2016. When 2nd Ave. opens, the N should bypass 49th when it runs express. That crossover is a nightmare. |
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| (1406699) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 29 06:33:42 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 28 16:33:17 2016. The only real reason to cross over expresses headed to Queens at 34th was because 57/7th needed to be used as a terminal. Once 2 Av. is open, this is no longer an issue. |
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| (1406700) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 29 06:36:12 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Handbrake on Sun Aug 28 19:50:41 2016. Tower was right there, so the moves could be made faster. ENY master takes forever to lineup a J or M when both are at Myrtle simultaneously. |
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| (1406708) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 08:06:08 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 29 06:30:55 2016. ???Astoria bound Ns have to cross over to the local track somewhere. Why is 59th (assuming they can do it there; I don't have a track map in front of me) any better than 34th? |
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| (1406716) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Aug 29 09:53:14 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Handbrake on Sun Aug 28 19:50:41 2016. Question...If a TO gets a wrong line up & knows its wrong & refuses to take it, could he/she be subject to discipline?? Also, in the TA rulebook, what is worse, causing a delay (sitting at a platform waiting for the lineup to be corrected) or taking the misroute??In other words, who gets the unpaid vacation? |
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| (1406717) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 29 09:57:52 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 08:06:08 2016. It's a Y, not a X crossover. It's a smoother configuration. |
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| (1406721) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 11:21:22 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 29 09:57:52 2016. Why is a Y smoother than an X? Are you just saying it's more gradual so it can be taken at higher speed? |
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| (1406723) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Mon Aug 29 11:46:28 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Aug 29 09:53:14 2016. The subject has been covered on here, I was actually reading on it last night. Wrong lineups can't be given, only taken.The consensus is that the T/O or C/R should contest the lineup over the radio before accepting it, no matter how long it takes to get confirmation. Delaying service for that is a lot more okay than taking a train where it isn't supposed to go. |
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| (1406731) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 29 13:31:54 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 29 06:36:12 2016. However, when the code was working properly, City Hall master tower controlled the switches although when I was breaking in at 57 as a Tw/M, the T/D insisted that 57 take control from C/Hall so that I could learn how to actually operate 57 tower in the event of a code failure. By the way, the N/B move was from A4 to A2. A1 and A3 are the southbound tracks. |
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| (1406732) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 29 13:39:50 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Kriston Lewis on Mon Aug 29 11:46:28 2016. Correct, although both the Tw/O and T/O do share the responsibility. When I was a M/M in early 1970, I worked the 4 Av on Sat and Sun and West End during the week. Due to roadbed renewal on 4 Av, my midday West End trips were lcl between 36 and Pacific. One Monday afternoon, I inadvertently punched for the tunnel at Pacific St lie I had done the day before when I was on the lcl. As I approached Dekalb and saw the tunnel lineup, I stopped at the home ball, phoned Dekalb tower on the route request phone (no radios then) informed the tower that I had punched wrong and was going to prepunch for the correct lineup. The reason for the call was so that the Tw/M at Dekalb wouldn’t wonder why I was changing my punch and possibly cause further delay. |
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| (1406733) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 29 13:42:58 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 29 06:33:42 2016. As I mentioned in my other post, pre Chrystie, West End expresses for Astoria di Xover at 57 St and not 34 St. On rare occasions, if there was congestion at 57 St, the platform C/R at 34 would be notified to advise West End M/M to punch for the lcl tk and make the stop at 49 St. |
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| (1406735) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 29 13:48:55 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Abba on Mon Aug 29 01:01:56 2016. I would surmise that the reason for no waiting at Flatbush is because there is diminished concern for which pocket the trains arrive in since they can be changed to the appropriate service once they are in the station. |
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| (1406749) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Aug 29 14:55:48 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Handbrake on Sun Aug 28 19:50:41 2016. The Ts didn't loiter to cross to the local tracks because the locals were held at 49th to give the Ts, which were routinely late, priority. I can't count the number of times I waited and waited for an Astoria train at 59th, when a crush-loaded T came in, followed by a half-empty local. |
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| (1406752) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Aug 29 15:01:04 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 08:06:08 2016. 57th is better because the express makes one fewer stop (49th), and gets to Astoria faster. |
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| (1406804) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by K. Trout on Mon Aug 29 22:32:37 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by Kriston Lewis on Mon Aug 29 11:46:28 2016. What about the auto-route at 50/6? Is it fully on the T/O for making the wrong punch?(On a side note, is that the only auto-route in the system?) |
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| (1406873) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 30 15:01:06 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by K. Trout on Mon Aug 29 22:32:37 2016. AFAIK, at least N/B through the Montague tube is auto select as well as N/B in the 60 St tube although There is no regular Nassau St service through Montague anymore. I believe also that the route selected at Broad Channel lines up the switches at Hammel’s Wye separating Far Rock from Rock Park trains. The punches at 57/6 S/B and 50/6 N/B are also auto select. Some interlockings that require T/Os to punch even have small signs informing T/Os “What you punch is what you get." |
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| (1406931) | |
Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal |
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Posted by Abba on Tue Aug 30 23:46:12 2016, in response to Re: Transmogrifornication of N's and Q's at Ditmars Blvd Terminal, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 28 16:36:07 2016. Actually Flatbush has been a lot better lately.More often then not no waiting at newkirk,no waiting at Flatbush many times right in. A few weeks ago though we were stuck right before the terminal with no trains in the terminal.The tower didn't realize a train was there! |
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