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| (1405611) | |
Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by INDviaCulver on Thu Aug 18 13:22:05 2016 On this date in 1968, QB and QJ trains were extended to Coney Island, and weekday D Brighton Expresses were turned at Brighton Beach. I can just imagine the back-ups prior to this operation with D, QB, and QJ trains crossing in front of each other before entering Brighton Beach. WIsh I could see the QB and QJ timetables from that time..... |
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| (1405616) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by coneyisl on Thu Aug 18 13:42:20 2016, in response to Birghton Line adjustments, posted by INDviaCulver on Thu Aug 18 13:22:05 2016. Think of how much worse the timetable must have looked before 4/12/1968 when the NX was in that mix too. |
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| (1405625) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Aug 18 16:39:01 2016, in response to Birghton Line adjustments, posted by INDviaCulver on Thu Aug 18 13:22:05 2016. The "QJ" , as I recall, ran on the Brighton Line from about 6;30AM-7:30PM, Mon-Fri. The "QB" ran only 10 trains during rush hours. |
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| (1405632) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 18 20:36:02 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Aug 18 16:39:01 2016. 730Pm to Coney Island.8Pm to Kings Hwy. The M ran south of Broad st about an hour longer. |
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| (1405643) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by INDviaCulver on Thu Aug 18 23:35:12 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Aug 18 16:39:01 2016. Interesting that the QB ran 10 trains during the rush hours at that time. Years later it seemed that the QB only ran about 4 or 5 trains for about 1 hour during the peak period!!! |
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| (1405650) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by zac on Fri Aug 19 03:56:08 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by INDviaCulver on Thu Aug 18 23:35:12 2016. It was only 5 trains in one direction am and pm rush. It was increased to 7 at some point. I think that was the pattern until the Manhattan Bridge closures. |
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| (1405656) | |
Re: Brighton Line adjustments |
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Posted by Dan on Fri Aug 19 08:25:56 2016, in response to Birghton Line adjustments, posted by INDviaCulver on Thu Aug 18 13:22:05 2016. Rapid Transit Service Changes - 07/01/1968, 08/18/1968 |
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| (1405659) | |
Re: Brighton Line adjustments |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Aug 19 10:08:16 2016, in response to Re: Brighton Line adjustments, posted by Dan on Fri Aug 19 08:25:56 2016. Great stuff!! Thank you for posting.I was a few days away from being 3 months old at the time. Although I obviously don't remember this, as far as I'm concerned, the whole modern world was born on 11/26/67 (when mom was carrying me), and anything occurring on or after that date, whether transit-related or not, should be considered recent :) |
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| (1405661) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 19 10:32:44 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by zac on Fri Aug 19 03:56:08 2016. The QB was like a ghost train.If you caught one,you were official. The sad part of that was the TAs decision to basically eliminate the majority of Broadway Brighton service by rerouting QT trains to Jamaica(relabling it QJ),thinking most rider prefered 6th avenue over Broadway. The Problem with the Broadway line was the fact that it funneled so many different rotes into it with so few northern terminals. |
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| (1405662) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Aug 19 10:55:51 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 19 10:32:44 2016. I guess the opening of 96/2nd will finally address that- increasing northern terminals by 50%. |
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| (1405664) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Fri Aug 19 11:25:29 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 19 10:32:44 2016. Just to play devil's disciple in reverse...From a pragmatic view point, it probably made sense. You gave up Canal Street for Grand St. you gained Greenwich Village without having to change (W 4 St)...34th St was the same station, 42nd Street was a block away and you gained an express stop at Rockefeller Center. You gained a one seat ride on the D to MNH, Hayden Planetarium and of course Yankee Stadium. The reverse was thrown out at people when they complained, after the Manny reopened and the decision was made to make Broadway the predominant service and take away all easy 6th Avenue service (across the platform transfers to the D evenings and weekends. Not quesstioning whether it was/is true or not. Depending on one's circumstances, it was either a good thing or an inconvenient thing. But clearly the QJ was a mistake and I still think, although it no longer affects me, it is/was unnecessary not to have the D stop at DeKalb when the B isn't running and yes I know all about the "dangerous" and inconvenient switching at Pacific Street. Simply run the D on the local 4th Avenue local track when the B is not running. Simple solution but yes it would add 5 minutes or so to the D route and I suppose NYCT has its reasons but still seems to me to be the best solution for all concerned so that both 4th Avenue and Brighton would have very convenient access at all times to both Broadway and 6th Avenue but like I said, it no longer matters to me. |
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| (1405668) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 19 12:01:22 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by MATHA531 on Fri Aug 19 11:25:29 2016. Completely understood.In this case,I believe the TA was simply forcing the new 6th ave service on its riders. While 6th ave is a more direct route to the heart of Midtown,had unused capacity...it also had the benefit of cleaning up two unnecessary bottlenecks of equal proportions. While Some issues WERE addressed,not all them were handled in a way that really helped. The Jamaica 4th avenue route Should have been the primary Eastern Division route to the South operating at all times...while the QB operated to Astoria. The N would serve the Continental avenue branch..while R would operate as the W does today. |
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| (1405669) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 19 12:01:22 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by MATHA531 on Fri Aug 19 11:25:29 2016. Completely understood.In this case,I believe the TA was simply forcing the new 6th ave service on its riders. While 6th ave is a more direct route to the heart of Midtown,had unused capacity...it also had the benefit of cleaning up two unnecessary bottlenecks of equal proportions. While Some issues WERE addressed,not all them were handled in a way that really helped. The Jamaica 4th avenue route Should have been the primary Eastern Division route to the South operating at all times...while the QB operated to Astoria. The N would serve the Continental avenue branch..while R would operate as the W does today. |
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| (1405674) | |
Re: Brighton Line adjustments |
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Posted by Dan on Fri Aug 19 13:34:29 2016, in response to Re: Brighton Line adjustments, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Aug 19 10:08:16 2016. I was 10 when the 11/26/1967 changes took place. We lived near the Culver El and remember how strange the modern R38s looked on the 'F' after years of the grimy R1/9s on the 'D'. |
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Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 19 14:10:37 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by MATHA531 on Fri Aug 19 11:25:29 2016. You wouldn’t get a one seat ride to the Planetarium since that is at 81 St/CPW, a local stop which the express D would bypass, and what is MNH? |
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| (1405677) | |
Re: Brighton Line adjustments |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 19 14:20:41 2016, in response to Re: Brighton Line adjustments, posted by Dan on Fri Aug 19 13:34:29 2016. Didn’t you notice the R-32 trains that started to appear on the D shortly before Chrystie? |
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| (1405680) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Fri Aug 19 15:01:31 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 19 14:10:37 2016. ...good point but an across the platform transfer at 59th Street to the C still not having to climb stairs somewhere. More convenient, dn't you agree. |
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| (1405683) | |
Re: Brighton Line adjustments |
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Posted by Dan on Fri Aug 19 15:25:45 2016, in response to Re: Brighton Line adjustments, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 19 14:20:41 2016. Don't remember seeing any stainless steel equipment on the Culver 'D', but we are talking about 49 years ago. |
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| (1405685) | |
Re: Brighton Line adjustments |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 19 15:47:28 2016, in response to Re: Brighton Line adjustments, posted by Dan on Fri Aug 19 15:25:45 2016. There were a few about a month before Chrystie went into effect probably to familiarize the Concourse crews with the new equipment. |
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| (1405693) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Aug 19 16:57:37 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 19 12:01:22 2016. Trouble was ,the "QJ" was never really heavily used between Broad St and Dekalb Ave. I remember riding it during the rush hours with plenty of seats available. Same thing with the "EE" in lower Manhattan, especially with some of its short-turns at Canal St. Proximity to Nassau St or not, a lot of Brighton riders wanted their "QT" back. |
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| (1405698) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Aug 19 18:18:01 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 19 14:10:37 2016. MNH=Museum of Natural History |
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| (1405723) | |
Re: Brighton Line adjustments |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Aug 19 22:59:05 2016, in response to Re: Brighton Line adjustments, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 19 15:47:28 2016. I vividly remember when the R-32s took over AA, B and D service. |
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| (1405725) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by Zac on Fri Aug 19 23:09:51 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 19 10:32:44 2016. You only caught it if you were commuting the Manhattan in the rush hour. I did, and knew when it would come. |
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| (1405801) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Aug 20 20:52:49 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Aug 19 18:18:01 2016. OK, but it’s technically on the same site as the Planetarium. |
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| (1406420) | |
Brighton Line Headways Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri Aug 26 16:46:50 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by randyo on Sat Aug 20 20:52:49 2016. Brighton Line Headways by Bernard Linder |
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| (1406622) | |
Re: Birghton Line adjustments |
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Posted by Handbrake on Sun Aug 28 09:55:08 2016, in response to Re: Birghton Line adjustments, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Aug 19 10:55:51 2016. Placing 96th Street 2nd Avenue into service does not fundamentally increase the number of terminals on the BMT Broadway line to turn trains. Trains can be turned at almost any location where a crossover switch is available to reverse direction.While 57th Street could be used as a location to turn trains, the switch configuration north of 57th Street does not permit turning a train at 57th Street without a potential a delay in SAS service. A similar shortcoming at the 57th/6th Avenue station when used to turn back trains. Had NYCT re-utilize tracks A1 & A2 north of 57th to merge with the middle A3/4 tracks and meet SAS connector tracks G3/4, then SAS trains could be routed along tracks A1/2 at 57th Street station to bypass trains holding on any of the two center station tracks. Even if had only one "Local" track were to be connected north of 57th Street to a SAS connector track, such as Track A2 that curves westward in the original BRT tunnel, track A4 could have been used to turn trains at 57th Street without blocking SAS traffic. Times Square is the only logical place to turn trains in mid-town as opposed to 57th. TS was used as a regular BMT terminal in the past. Presently Times Square is used to put trains into PM rush hour service that were laid up after the AM rush, and used as a terminal during some GO weekends. Not building 72nd Street on the SAS with a middle platform, or at least with a north spur track to turn trains near to Mid-town, is a shortcoming of the SAS. |
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| (1406633) | |
Re: Brighton Line adjustments |
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Posted by handbrake on Sun Aug 28 10:32:47 2016, in response to Re: Brighton Line adjustments, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 19 14:20:41 2016. There were five Rush Hour R32's placed into rush hour service before the BMT-IND merge on the D. One summer Saturday in 1966 I witnessed R32's running (Out of service) in between in service R1/9's on the Culver D line to Coney Island. I suspect that the TA was breaking in the ME23 brake crowd to dymanic braking on more modern SMEE equipmnt.Remember, prior to the merge, IRT, BMT, and IND crews could not pick in a different division as they can do today. I rode what may have been the first F towards Coney Island at 34th/6h on the night of the merge. How do I know this? A train of R1/9 was charging up at 34th 6th Avenue terminal ready to leave for 179th Jamaica. At W4th I caught a southbound D of R1/9's that went via Chrystie Street to the BMT at DeKalb. Possibly the first one from the That weekend R32's were running on he QB, as opposed to typical R27/30' equipment. Getting ready to re-flag as D's at midnight That first weekend there was mayhem at DeKalb when D's started to roll in, and the first time that the TA placed route information signs at the edge of station platforms. Something that is taken for granted today |
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| (1406658) | |
Re: Brighton Line adjustments |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 28 16:49:50 2016, in response to Re: Brighton Line adjustments, posted by handbrake on Sun Aug 28 10:32:47 2016. Once the merger took place, C/Rs and M/M were able to pick back and forth between the BMT and the IND but only employees appointed after a certain date could request to pick the IRT. There may have even been a few M/M and C/Rs who were on the job so long that they were frozen on the BMT or IND as well. I knew a BMT M/M who lived in the Bronx who picked Brighton Lcl runs out of Astoria prior to the merge. After the merge, he picked a B run out of 168 St which was not part of the Manhattan North district but was BMT South so that on Saturday, he worked the RR out of Astoria. I can only surmise that he was frozen on the BMT which is why he didn’t pick a AA run out of 168 St. After He retired, I was able to pick his old run but not withy the same days off, so I too, worked my Sat and Sun pieces out of Astoria. |
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