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| Re: What is this supposed to be? (1331703) | |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by chud1 on Fri Mar 11 18:20:24 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Fri Mar 11 17:41:37 2016. 5 drooling stars out of 5 drooling stars for these pictures.my favorite subway cars are in da second picture. chud1. :)..... |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Mar 11 18:21:50 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Fri Mar 11 17:41:37 2016. So the hopper cars had working motors, or at least passed electrical signals, air pressure, etc., between the sets of Low V's? |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Fri Mar 11 18:43:37 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 11 12:51:46 2016. Spider PigIf you are speaking about the Embankment and Trestle structure from Lebanon Street South to E.174th Street --as you stated "was torn down in 1997" -- sorry, but that is incorrect. Here is a Railroad.Net Message by someone I know who was there when the structures were being removed and embankment earthen-fill excavated and removed. Here is his post - copy pasted ===================================================================== RAILROAD.NET Re: NYW&B/NH West Farms Jct. Posted by: pbass » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:40 pm There is very little left to see. I was there soon after the viaduct was being demolished back up to 180th street in 2003. I remember that after the NYWB demise that NYWB track 2 (N/B ex-Express track) was connected to the NH/PC at 174th street splitting off to former NYWB tracks 3&4 about 177th street. I took photos of NYCTA hoppers on those 2 tracks there. ==================================================================== Also, A photographer has a website on-line I once saw (I am trying to find it again) -- of his extensive demolition coverage photos of that part of the line - in stages - between 2003 and 2005. Here is a June 2003 Photo showing the slowly ongoing demolition - in section stages - of the Viaduct south from just north of the north sidewalk line of Lebanon Street - just below the E.180St ex-NYW&B Station. The view is north from a block or so below Lebanon Street  regards - Joe F |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Fri Mar 11 19:01:21 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by 3-9 on Fri Mar 11 18:21:50 2016. The hopper cars were non powered trailer cars. In my close up photos I took of those cars, other than AIR brake hoses which connected to the A/B hoses on the Motor Car Horses (Hi-V or Low-V's) -- and IRON-coupled - as the Hi-V and Low-V Motor cars at the hopper-car-coupled end had MCB Knuckle Couplers installed in place of their standard subway couplers...I don't recall any MU Sockets or cables.Remember, these early era hoppers had to run with both HI-V and LOW-V cars which had different MU control systems and differing cable sockets ! I was told by a former retired Work Train motorman pal that the head end (pulling consist) motorman used whistle signals (later radio contact) to alert the rear powered set "pushing" consist of motor cars, as to when and what "notch" to move his controller to - in synchronization with the head end motorman....as well as when to coast with power off. (And vice-versa in opposite direction). I would assume that the braking system and control of the head end first car A/B stand, would control the braking function and ratio of the hopper cars and coasting (power off) rear Motor Cars. Similar procedure as to when SETAM engines were double headed --- or when a rear diesel (or steam) HELPER unit Loco helped push a diesel (or steam) towed freight train up a steep grade. Don't know further - but perhaps the retired (or current) TA motormen here may have more detailed info. regards - Joe F |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Mar 11 19:27:22 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Fri Mar 11 19:01:21 2016. Thanks for the info! |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Mar 11 20:37:02 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Mon Jan 5 19:35:22 2015. Thanks for posting & sharing. Quality all around, both in pictures, information & history.Having grown up in Flushing line territory, my first subway ride was on the R-12/14s that ran on the line in the mid 50s. AFAIK the Lo-Vs were gone from the Flushing Line by 1950/51. It was a big culture shock to me when I went to my first Yankee game in 1959 with my older brother. It was an exciting adventure. As a kid, Going to the game was my first ride on the old "Woodlawn-Jerome" exp. to 161st & River Ave on a Lo-V was a trip to a different country. Im in Da Bronx! Noisy as hell, rode like a tank but was scary fast , at least to an impressionable kid. Another shock was going to my aunts house in Astoria. Me & Mom would take the #7 to QBP & switch to the BMT to Hoyt Ave. In comes a big old lumbering Standard. Compared to the R-12s the Standards were huge. It seemed to me like a trip on the LIRR with its 3/2 seating, wide isles & general roomy feel. But they came across as " ancient" with its incandescent light bulbs, torn wicker seats, paddle fans & growling traction motor gearing. Some things you don't forget when you are a kid. Its all coming out in my book!:) |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Fri Mar 11 23:33:48 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Mar 11 20:37:02 2016. Hello (Fisk Ave) JimGlad you enjoyed this change of pace in history & photos -- something differnt. Thanks for (and to some other posters here) for your shared very interesting MEMORIES. I really enjoy and can relate to your 1950's Flushing Line as well as more so the Jerome-Woodlawn IRT EL line, as I ro9de them both in the 1950's. Those are the kind of now long (heh), ancient but stunning memories to our then very young minds that served over time to shape our feelings for (nostalgia of) transit as we are now. It did for me -- always a new adventure discovery and vivid experience somewhere. There was SO MUCH distinctive variety of transit equipment in the 1940's thru early 1960's --- much of it then ancient -- and those memories most of us from that long ago era do not forget ! I guess it somewhat shows in my O-Scale modeling endeavors. As I grew up closely associated with and regularly exposed to the old Manhattan & Bronx pre-war IRT steel subway and wood EL Gate and MUDC & Q-Type car rolling stock, the ancient BMT stuff (steel Standards and D-types, and wooden BU Gate and C & Q Type EL Cars) were just as "normal" and everyday relevant -- if not strangely "different (AB and D types) for the IRT ! The Manhattan IRT 3rd AVE EL and the IRT Lexington Avenue subway were my constant daily viewing and riding exposure to NYC's transit when I was young !! regards - Joe |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sat Mar 12 07:04:16 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by tunnelrat on Fri Mar 11 11:43:22 2016. Hello again Steve (T-RAT)(PS: And LOSE the ALL CAPS LETTERS and make spaces between sentence endings - its hard for old eyes to read, heh !) Per your Questions (and I cleaned it up a bit) --as quoted: ====================================================================== HI JOE, LONG TIME SINCE WE TALKED. GREAT SHOTS OF THINGS I'VE NEVER SEEN. A FEW QUESTION IF YOU PLEASE. WHO BUILT THE TRACK CONNECTION BETWEEN THE T.A. TRACKAGE & THE NHRR ? AND WHEN WAS THE 3RD RAIL INSTALLED UP TO, BUT NOT INTO THE NHRR ? SURE AM GLAD YOU TOOK PHOTOS OF THE CONNECTING SWITCH INTO NHRR ROW. I'M ASSUMING THE BALLAST CARS WERE WERE DRILLED BY T.A.DIESELS IN THE RIGHT HAND PHOTOS. ANY SHOTS OF THE CONN.BEING BUILT? ====================================================================== OK -- when I was there in early 1957 to take photos of the last wooden MUDC cars and many Hi-V Steel subway cars being scrapped at the old Startlight Amusement Park grounds -- and again in 1960 for more IRT Hi-V subway scrapping -- the THIRD RAIL extended south to below E.177th Street (Coliseum Bus Garage area) along only both LOCAL TRACKS (outer tracks) of the Viaduct. These 3rd rails were uncovered IRT EL STYLE (without the classic IRT EL Lines wooden safety backboard) and positioned Third Rails -- which could be used by EL Car Work motors and Subway Car Work Motors. These same 3rd rails on those 2 tracks were used between 1941 and 1953 to store shuttle train 2 and 4 car consists of IRT EL Cars on the Viaduct-Trestle for use in NB rush hours - and I have photos of them stored on the trestle between E.177th St and E.180th St. On one track, the former NYW&B N/B express track, -- (which heading north was re-aligned over east to continue on as part of the existing N/B Local track) -- the 3rd rail extended south from the E.180th St (NYW&B) Station to just about 2 car lengths just below the south wall of round roof Coliseum Bus Garage Building (seen in my attached photo) which was once of the Starlight Park buildings. Past that point south about 4 car lengths to that famed Signal Gantry Bridge near the embankment bottom, and further south to the NHRR junction switch, there was NO THIRD RAIL on that track to where it switched to the NHRR Mainline SB Local track. THAT sole track was the car NHRR-IRT interchange delivery track. The 3rd Rail on the former NYW&B S/B local (west) track, the track that trains bound for scrapping at Starlight Park grounds were taken southward upon, usually motor cars being run upon under their OWN POWER to their demise, only extended south from 180th Street, to just next to the east wall of the round roof Coliseum Building. Generally a railroad tie was placed across the track rails there as a temporary "movable bumper" to insure any scrap bound cars were held there from any unintended rolling downgrade !! The outer (west) RUNNING rail of that former NYW&B S/B Local (west) track (the same track the El cars are seen on in my photo)- just a few car lengths NORTH of that now still remaining Signal Gantry bridge, was REMOVED, thus causing any cars "let loose" to be rolled down to that point, to "derail", as was intended, and tilt, veer off to the right (west) and tumble, roll over down the short slope of the embankment -- to the flat ground below. It worked every time, whereupon they were dragged into paralleled rows to be burned and cut up for scrap. A, heh, CHEAP way to deliver cars to their scrap death. See my photo below  Once all the remaining 3rd AVE EL cars (by 1957) and all Hi-V cars, and a number of surplus replaced Low-V subway cars, were scrapped by 1960-62, scrapping ended there at that time, (at the Starlight Grounds) and that third rail on both tracks was cut back. The S/B former local track lost its 3rd rail southward from its portion below the crossover just below 180th Street on the steel viaduct. The former N/B local track 3rd rail was also cut back just a short bit from where it ended at the south in 1955, and thus was ended just below the E.177th street crossing, approx. next to the Coliseum Bus Garage building's east wall. See my Feb 1964 photo taken at that point, below; The Coliseum building is out of view at left a bit south below the E.177th Street underpass thru-deck girders.  As far as when the single track connection and switch to the NHRR S/B Local Mainline track was made, it was installed some time in very early 1955, BY THE N.H.RR crews, and they connected about 6 car lengths of NEW straight connecting track north from that NEW switch, to the existing (cut-off stub ended at that time) intact and still sturdy former (at that specific location) N/B Local track of the ex-NYW&B, which ended cut off alongside the NHRR S/B Main track. Remember, those 2 mainline local tracks became a 4 track NYW&B mainline near the E.174th Street roadway bridge. See my photo view north where that 2 to 4 track interlocking once existed:  The NHRR continued the new straight track to line up and continue straight to the former N/B express track. See my photo below looking south showing the former NYW&B 4 to 2 track interlocking long abandoned switch track ties;  The NYCTA also then did re-alignment changes to that N/B express track further north up the embankment, next to the Coliseum building, to veer right and continue north as, on to, the N/B local track.... as seen in my further above photo of MUDC EL cars on the "Scrap Track" . I have a photo taken in late summer 1954, looking north around approx. E.172nd Street, along the west edge of the NHRR mainline four tracks, on the trackless gravel of the former once 2-track NYW&B in the lower foreground, showing the 2 cut-off stub ended NYW&B local tracks. I have created new NYW&B-IRT Connections FLICKR Albums covering the Harlem river Terminal up to E. 180th Street. The First Album is complete - Harlem River to the NYW&B-NHRR Hell Gate line connection The Second Album is 1/2 finished -- ending at the Westchester Ave Station of the NYW&B-NHRR. I have plenty of photos in my collection showing the E.172nd Street Junction as new in 1913 and thru the various periods after end of (Dec 1937) NYW&B RR service -- photos taken in 1946, 1952, 1954. And the junction-track connections were gone in those periods. I will have plenty of interesting and historic photos to install, and of course, again will be those of the 1964 WF cars, and the R-17 cars in 1956....and all the scrapping done in that Starlight Park area 1950's- thru 1960's. And include photo of the scrapping between 2003 and 2005 of the 4-track steel viaduct and embankment, and present appearances. A Third Photo Album will cover the line from Morris Park Station Station up to Dyre Ave. and including Kingsbridge Road Station just across the City line in Mt. Vernon, in again, both NYW&B and IRT eras. Lastly, yes, in the last years of the trestle, and hopper car interchanges, and work train storage on the trestle, TA diesels occasionally did the motive work. I can't remember WHEN the switch and single track connection at E.172nd Street (to then AMTRAK) was removed --- I did find out but must try to find the info. I think it may have been in the early 1980's. ANYONE HERE KNOW ? regards - Joe F |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Mar 12 09:56:04 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sat Mar 12 07:04:16 2016. Many thanks for taking the time to post that. |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by chud1 on Sat Mar 12 10:35:59 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sat Mar 12 07:04:16 2016. 5 drooling stars out of 5 drooling stars for da pictures and narration.chud1. :)..... |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Mar 12 10:47:51 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sat Mar 12 07:04:16 2016. its funny how the mind works.my mind at least.I saw an ERA film on when the redbirds were delivered via the irt/nhrr conn.I could have sworn I saw covered 3rd.rail up to,but not into the nhrr conn.when I walked down there in the `70`s I could swear I saw the same thing in person.the switch was removed because the T.A. no longer wanted to pay amtrack the $20.000 a year to maintain it.here`s a true story as told to me by someone everyone on this board knows. he showed up at E180st.4 hours before he was scheduled and asked the trainmaster if he could take a diesel down the old ny,w&b row." you show up 4 hours before your due"do anything you want.he took said diesel past the trestle which was overgrown with weed and trees.he went past the bus garage,knocking down trees&such until he went on the ground.yup,derailed the diesel.he was by himself,"what is a boy to do"? knowing how to right rail a train he shored up the rails with scrape ties lying around& got back on the rails& slowly crept back to the trestle.didn`t bother to tell the powers that be what happened.[let sleeping dogs lie]so I,m guessing that HE was the last train to operate over this unique section of track.years later the t.a.installed a bumper in the middle of the trestle to prevent any train from "wandering"past it.hope you enjoy this little bit of transit history. |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by Bill West on Sat Mar 12 15:34:04 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by tunnelrat on Sat Mar 12 10:47:51 2016. A Google search of the NHRHTA forum brought up this info on last runs. Mr. Weaver was a NYNH&H engineer.This one is about SS-8 at West Farms junction. Bill |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Mar 12 18:17:25 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by Bill West on Sat Mar 12 15:34:04 2016. bill,great find on the sperry rail car using that connection.i,m assuming it was one of the converted rail"busses"that made the move. |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sat Mar 12 19:56:13 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by tunnelrat on Sat Mar 12 10:47:51 2016. Hello again Steve.Yes, you are correct and memory still correct. Here is my photo from 1995 looking south from the N/B Platform of the ex-NYW&B E.180th Street Station, south along the former N/B Local Track. Notice the covered 3rd Rail at left of track, and continuing down the viaduct  ALSO note that the TA in an attempt to somewhat maintain the viaduct and its deck, had removed the former N/B & S/B ex-NYW&B two express tracks and many of the ties -- which had not been used on the viaduct trestle since the late 1940's. I would assume that was done some time just before or soon AFTER (was that in the 1980's ??) the single track and its switch connecting to the then AMTRAK Mainline S/B local track, was removed. Likely in some track upgrades on the trestle, (repairs, etc) the Covered 3rd rail was also installed as a safety improvement. But, yes, it was there (covered 3rd rail, relocated in SUBWAY POSITION) until the trestle was gradually removed in stages in the 2003 - 2005 period, along with removal in stages of the 4 track embankment south from E.177th Street to E.174th Street. Yes, a funny story about the TA diesel running down the weed and small tree filled tracks -- what was that M/M thinking -- especially on long OOS track that had rotted ties, missing spikes, and some eroded ballast ! Its amazing he got that heavy diesel back on the rails with no jacks, tools, and just what he did. Especially if the whole truck was off the rails (all 4 wheels) Perhaps it was just an "embellished" "tall tale" of the actual trip and back - as to what actually happened. PS: Steve, the lower case type is much better, but ALSO place a space (via the long spacer bar key, heh!) or two BETWEEN EACH sentence ending -- as seen in my text above -- Thanks !) regards - Joe F |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Mar 13 14:35:46 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sat Mar 12 19:56:13 2016. Joe,do you have any construction photos of the dyre line being converted to "subway" use? I,ve only seen one taken north of E180st.In 1987 the t.a. spent $25 million dollars to turn the trestle into a mini yard.I remember seeing a train of "redbirds layed up at the b/b in the middle of the trestle only once or twice.what a waste of money. |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by milantram on Mon Mar 14 01:28:09 2016, in response to What is this supposed to be?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jan 3 18:43:25 2015. Lion's tenement, where he was weaned?Meow... |
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Re: What is this supposed to be?--CORRECTION |
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Posted by milantram on Mon Mar 14 01:30:39 2016, in response to What is this supposed to be?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jan 3 18:43:25 2015. Correction: Lion's tenement, where him was weaned?Meow... |
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Re: What is this supposed to be?--CORRECTION |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 14 02:51:32 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?--CORRECTION, posted by milantram on Mon Mar 14 01:30:39 2016. very nice, Master Peter |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Mon Mar 14 15:46:19 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Mar 13 14:35:46 2016. Hello Steve --I don't have any photos and have never seen any so far -- of: (a) The New Haven RR crews constructing the new connection switch and length of straight track north from the S/B NHRR Main Local track, north to and straight into the ex-NYW&B Railway N/B Express track back in very early 1955, for new IRT Car deliveries and material deliveries via rail to the IRT-NYCTA. (b) Nor any of the ex-NYW&B Railway line being constructed to subway use after it was purchased by the City of NY in 1940, installing transit-style signals and subway-style and positioned covered 3rd rail. I would expect that these photos may have been professionally taken by the City back then and still exist as City-archived, or may have at one time, existed and been discarded - as the NYCTA did with in the early 1960's when they cleaned out the storage rooms at 370 Jay Street, Brooklyn, (then NYCTA H/Q)and discarded, destroyed almost all the THEN LONG VINTAGE AND HISTORIC photos, documents, and plans, data files, records, relating to the old Manhattan & Brooklyn 1880's era built Elevated lines that were torn down between 1937 thru 1956. That event is a long story in itself, heh. Re: your comment - quoted: ...."In 1987 the t.a. spent $25 million dollars to turn the trestle into a mini yard.I remember seeing a train of "redbirds layed (laid) up at the b/b (bumper block) in the middle of the trestle only once or twice. what a waste of money"..... Well, that kind of money waste doesn't surprise me !! Had they had any intelligence, they could decades earlier have KEPT and maintained in good order, from E. 174th Street north, all the 4 tracks of the R-o-W and a multi-track junction connection to AMTRAK -- as the MTA owned NY Transit as well as the MTA Commuter Rail -- and can you imagine select CON-DOT commuter (catenary powered) trains from Penn Station via, over, the Hell Gate Bridge route scheduled for running up along the overhauled ex-NYW&B lower R-o-W to re-habbed high-level-platform stations at Hunts Point and Westchester Avenue, and up from E.174th Street junction to terminate at the former NYW&B E.180th St. Station and passenger-transfer to the IRT lines for continuing destinations further north. Could have been, and serviced that coastal area of the south to mid Bronx ! (Well, just a fantasy pipe dream, heh !) PS: Steve - as far as this topic of these long gone IRT-NNHRR-NYW&B connections, and its history and etc., it seems this topic has generated very little interest and no further interest over the past few days. I thank you and the few other posters for their interest and comments on this transit related historical topic. Regards - Joe F |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by Q4 on Mon Mar 14 16:36:55 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by randyo on Fri Mar 11 16:06:01 2016. Thanks for sharing these pictures. As I said over a year ago, I would love to see them and I was right. |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by trains61 on Mon Mar 14 19:08:16 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Mon Mar 14 15:46:19 2016. Joe F. Your posts are always appreciated. Sometimes, we the lurker`s just don`t respond, but just view the posts. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.The Lurkers` Guild :-) |
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Re: What is this supposed to be? |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Tue Mar 15 11:26:58 2016, in response to Re: What is this supposed to be?, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Mon Mar 14 15:46:19 2016. Joe,i,ve probably asked you about this before,any photos of the joint irt/nhrr/ny,w&b joint station at 132st & willis ave with irt trains in the station along side the nhrr trains? i,ve always wondered how the passengers detrained from the irt.i,m thinking they had wooden staircases like the used to have at belmont race track. |
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