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| (1374353) | |
Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by displaced angeleno on Thu Nov 19 18:02:31 2015 I've been riding the Brooklyn IRT from Sterling St. to Borough Hall quite a bit these past few weeks, and each time I have opted for the express from Borough Hall to Franklin Avenue, or vice versa, it has always slogged along.I couldn't figure out why it was so reliably slow, until today, when I got the RFW (or rather its poor imitation on an R142) on a Dyre Ave.-bound 5 train, and rode it from Sterling Street to Grand Central. The entire route from Sterling Street to Atlantic Avenue is riddled with timers. I understand why they guard the approach to Rogers Junction, and a somewhat sharp curve not long after departing Franklin Avenue, but the rest of the trip seems to be a straightaway with gains and drops in elevation. The ride from Brooklyn Bridge to 14th Street has far more curves and is not (knock on wood) afflicted with timers. I swear, every signal from Franklin Ave. to Atlantic Avenue was a timer, and we barely exceeded 15 mph at any time. I know the TA is timer-happy in general, but on a straight express, they seem particularly out of place. Can anyone shed some light on why there are so many timers on this particular stretch? |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Thu Nov 19 18:13:35 2015, in response to Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by displaced angeleno on Thu Nov 19 18:02:31 2015. Especially when the local trains go faster! "Express" should be changed to "Bypass" |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 19 18:22:15 2015, in response to Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by displaced angeleno on Thu Nov 19 18:02:31 2015. Most of that stretch is on a down hill run...especially after Franklin.Its pretty steady,too. The elevation change is mostly due to the way the subway tunnels were built under both Eastern Pky and Flatbush Ave,in a stairstep fashion to accommodate the 7th ave,Grand Army Plaza,and Bergen st stations of the BMT/IRT. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Nov 19 18:30:22 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 19 18:22:15 2015. Yup. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Nov 19 20:22:48 2015, in response to Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by displaced angeleno on Thu Nov 19 18:02:31 2015. Considering the timers are in the 20s coming down off the Manhattan Bridge, 15 sounds crazy. I'm not against the timers but yes I would want to know what in particular warrants 15 as opposed to, say, 40! |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by displaced angeleno on Fri Nov 20 00:34:49 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Nov 19 18:30:22 2015. I'm very familiar with the diagram, hence my confusion at all the timers. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by displaced angeleno on Fri Nov 20 00:36:29 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 19 18:22:15 2015. Does a downhill, but mostly straight run (other than the curve from Eastern Parkway onto Flatbush Avenue), warrant that whole slew of timers? |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Nov 20 03:10:43 2015, in response to Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by displaced angeleno on Thu Nov 19 18:02:31 2015. I'd say many timers are unnecessary. Most are in place to give customers a smooth ride and to avoid station overruns.Ggf |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 20 04:17:45 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Nov 20 03:10:43 2015. That's really sad. Any motorman who overshoots shouldn't have handles. Smooth rides? Then stop the timers. Train rolling along smooth, nothing ahead, at the speed limit and you hit a yellow, you HAVE to pull some air because who knows what's next?In all the time I was there, I never missed the marker. Came up short sometimes and had to bump it, but never overshot, never hit a ball. There's no excuse. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by zac on Fri Nov 20 07:10:19 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by displaced angeleno on Fri Nov 20 00:36:29 2015. And the straight section of the Brighton from 7th Ave to PP only has a timer at the curve going into Prospect Park. There are timers going from 7th to Atlantic, but I've been on trains that seem to hit them without ever slowing down. It isn't a long stretch however. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Nov 20 13:19:48 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Nov 19 18:30:22 2015. That's an awesome diagram. Before discovering nycsubway.org et al, I had no idea all that was happening around me during my regular rides on the Brighton line. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Nov 20 13:22:32 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by zac on Fri Nov 20 07:10:19 2015. Meanwhile aren't there lots of curves in the system without timers?! I just don't get it!Haven't been through lately but it always seemed the 6th Ave expresses zoomed from Grand St around to Bway Lafayette. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Nov 20 15:22:10 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by zac on Fri Nov 20 07:10:19 2015. When I would work the D on the Brighton Line, leaving 7 Av I would just release the brakes and the train would start to roll. It picked up so much speed just from the free roll that I had to apply the brakes to slow down for the timers S/O Atlantic. Of course that was with the old signaling but I would imagine it would be the same with the new signals. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by zac on Fri Nov 20 18:54:39 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Nov 20 13:22:32 2015. It sometimes still does. And between Bway/Laf to W4th. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Nov 22 03:07:39 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 20 04:17:45 2015. Never had your train slide on leaves? Talk about an 'oh shit!' moment...lol |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 22 04:06:29 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Nov 22 03:07:39 2015. Dude ... I worked the Brighton express. Newkirk ... Beverly. 'Nuff said. You're in motors ... tell me you can't see that sheen? :)Dynamic brakes SUCK. That's why I was always happy to take out an arnine instead of a 32. If you gave it 10 pounds reduction, you'd be fine. My problem was always stopping short because of over-applying. Miss my mark? Nope. Maybe it took a couple of bumps to get there sometimes. (grin) |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 22 04:07:47 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Nov 22 03:07:39 2015. BTW ... ever work Gunhill on the deuce? Lulz. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 22 11:06:29 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 22 04:06:29 2015. Everybody out and push!:) |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 22 11:07:59 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Nov 20 03:10:43 2015. Many of those timers have turned rapid transit into leisurely transit. You'll get there - eventually. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by chud1 on Sun Nov 22 12:16:13 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 22 11:07:59 2015. IAWTP!chud1. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Nov 22 12:21:38 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by displaced angeleno on Fri Nov 20 00:34:49 2015. Safety net. Rogers itself sees 54 TPH running thru it during peak rush hours. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Nov 22 12:23:32 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by zac on Fri Nov 20 07:10:19 2015. The northound 6th ave local track takes an even steeper dive between 23rd and 34th Sts. Trains seem to fly through it at top speeds (when possible). |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Nov 22 12:24:54 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Nov 22 03:07:39 2015. Nope. But I've been on countless trains which undershot platforms due to overcompensation, forcing trains to start up again to platform properly. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Nov 22 13:33:23 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Nov 22 12:23:32 2015. According to the topo map, surface level rises by 10 feet from 23rd to 34th. So even if the trains are only 1 level down at 23rd and 3 levels down at 34th, that's only a drop of at most 20 feet in 11 blocks, or less than a 1% gradient. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Nov 22 13:35:24 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Nov 22 03:07:39 2015. I was on a railroad train, a Harlem Line local, that overshot Crestwood, I think, by easily 500 feet. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Nov 22 15:14:08 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 22 04:06:29 2015. Lol the sad part nowadays the 32's are probably the trains that slide the least. In my experience the NTT's are the worst with sliding not only is leaves a problem but rain also (its wierd though when it's pouring it's not a problem but when it's drizzling ur coming into stations on roller skates...lol)Agreed about Dynamic brakes sucking ESPECIALLY on the 68A's. Makes me appreciate those loud dingy 32's even more. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Nov 22 15:18:39 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by AlM on Sun Nov 22 13:35:24 2015. Yeah when those wheels lock up and that train starts to slide that train is at the mercy of nature. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Nov 22 15:22:58 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 22 04:06:29 2015. Gotta give that quick buzz so the conductor don't pop those doors ;-)Yeah that used to be my problem on the 68A's take about 15 lbs of brakes then bc of the delay i use to take even more brake then stop a lil short. Had to learn to trust the train and wait for the dynamic to kick in then adjust if needed. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 22 17:02:04 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Nov 22 15:14:08 2015. What's funny about the 32's is that the original design was pretty much the same as the redbirds, but with a bit more weight were smooth as a baby's ass. Things came a long way from the first cars with dynamics, the R10's, also known as track pounders because those would lock up at the drop of a hat unless the inshots were set just right. They rarely were. That's why they were known for their octagonal-shaped wheels. :)And just so you know track physics, drizzle is the absolute worst because it forms a thin film over whatever grease comes off the wheel treads. A good deluge washes most of it off the rail ball and so you have traction again. And leaf season on the Brighton was always something special. You didn't want to do Beverly/Newkirk much faster than 10 MPH. Heh. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 22 17:09:40 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Nov 22 15:22:58 2015. OH yeah ... back in my time though, we didn't need to point at the zebra, we all knew exactly which staircase or vending machine on the pillar was the right one to open up for. (grin)And exactly as far as the kick-in goes ... took a while for me to get used to that on the newer cars as well. With arnines, it was all straight air and you got exactly what you pulled right down to that final release. But yeah, if you're going to run past the marker, perhaps you should be driving a bus. (grin) |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 22 17:09:56 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 22 11:06:29 2015. That's what conductors were for. :) |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 22 17:16:29 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by ftgreeneg on Sun Nov 22 15:18:39 2015. Always wondered why we never had sand injectors. :) |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Nov 22 18:02:29 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by AlM on Sun Nov 22 13:33:23 2015. I think it's more like 5 levels, because the 6th Ave line drops below the LIRR and the water tunnel. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 22 18:38:25 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Nov 22 18:02:29 2015. The LIRR is below the IND. 34/6 is a mini roller coaster ride. It dips below the BMT at the north end and rises above the LIRR at the south end. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 22 18:48:46 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 22 18:38:25 2015. I always loved that stop, including the long front porch at the north end northbound after the ball. :) |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Nov 22 20:06:03 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 22 18:38:25 2015. It dips below the BMT at the north end and rises above the LIRR at the south end.It's pretty level. The BMT is 2 levels down, the IND is 3 levels down, and the LIRR is at least 4 levels down. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Nov 22 20:06:35 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Nov 22 18:02:29 2015. If you stand at the south end of the IND at 32nd, you can hear the LIRR below you. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 23 14:38:17 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 22 18:48:46 2015. Sometime around the Chrystie merger, those home balls were moved. They used to be at the very north end of the platform allowing actually 12 X 60 ft cars to be berthed in the station. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 23 14:39:20 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by AlM on Sun Nov 22 20:06:03 2015. It’s not level. I was a M/M through that station and I can attest to its variable grades. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 23 15:21:06 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 23 14:38:17 2015. That's where I would have expected to find them. So far back though was amusing. When the line got jacked, often thought of setting up a picnic ahead. :) |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 23 15:26:10 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 23 14:39:20 2015. At least the C/R can see both ends from the trench though. :) |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 23 19:54:51 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 23 15:21:06 2015. I used to go to the north end out of habit. Then when a D would pull in, it was a mad dash to board the first car. You don't realize just how LONG those platforms are! |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 23 19:55:19 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by AlM on Sun Nov 22 20:06:35 2015. And feel it, too. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 23 20:04:32 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 22 17:09:56 2015. To give orders, right?:) |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 23 21:22:23 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 23 19:54:51 2015. IND was built for expansion. Until the money ran out. :) |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 23 21:23:12 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 23 20:04:32 2015. Mainly to answer stupid questions. :) |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Nov 24 00:50:06 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 23 14:39:20 2015. Confirmed. Northbound, grades are up 0.5%, down 3%, and up 1.9%. See diagram for further details. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 24 03:36:13 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 22 18:38:25 2015. Sure is,and its Very Visible. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 24 20:27:29 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 23 21:22:23 2015. And the Depression hit, followed by WWII. |
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Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 24 20:30:44 2015, in response to Re: Brooklyn IRT Express Timers, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 23 21:23:12 2015. What's the dumbest question anyone ever asked you? |
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