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| SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video (1364101) | |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Michael549 on Wed Aug 26 15:13:40 2015, in response to SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Dan on Wed Aug 26 15:09:27 2015. Thanks for the video!Very informative! Mike |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 26 15:44:04 2015, in response to SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Dan on Wed Aug 26 15:09:27 2015. 5 more years of that junk is not necessary.They could send 20 R46's over there when the R179 comes in, and put the R44's to sleep non-rush hours. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Aug 27 06:13:15 2015, in response to SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Dan on Wed Aug 26 15:09:27 2015. Interesting, makes it sound like SIRT is seriously underutilized. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by WillD on Thu Aug 27 15:16:24 2015, in response to SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Dan on Wed Aug 26 15:09:27 2015. Oh good, more time for them to realize it's not a subway line and order LRVs for it. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Aug 27 16:22:22 2015, in response to SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Dan on Wed Aug 26 15:09:27 2015. Interestingly, SIRT has always had new equipment (the ME-1s and then the R44s) rather than hand-me-downs.Of course they "borrowed" some cars while waiting for the R44s. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Thu Aug 27 17:23:12 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by WillD on Thu Aug 27 15:16:24 2015. I disagree with that. It should be kept as a subway like service. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 27 17:41:22 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Aug 27 17:23:12 2015. It would take 4 articulated cars to equal a 4 car R44. I don't see the point. There is no point in making it run more often than the Ferry, which is 30 minutes non-rush. If you did, there would be severe load imbalance issues on the trains. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by WillD on Thu Aug 27 18:24:53 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Aug 27 17:23:12 2015. Why? It's slower than HBLR, it's more expensive to operate, it has lower capacity for an equivalent number of operators. Given the complaints they have og lengthy waits for SIRT trains when the ferry is delayed, or vice versa, running shorter trains at half the headway would be a good way to respond to customer input. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 27 18:45:55 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by WillD on Thu Aug 27 18:24:53 2015. See above.SIR is highly dependent on the Ferry, which the MTA has no control, over. The majority of the time, the ferry is NOT delayed, and the 15 minute trains are of no use. Comparing HBLRT to SIR is invalid. They are 2 different railroads. I would want to see computer analysis on how a HBLRT cars would perform on the SIR given its loads and distance between stops. Then go though some cost/benefit analysis to rebuilding all the platforms, including the many at ST George, then compare to the modest benefit of just maybe 22 verses 20MPH. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Aug 27 19:28:41 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 27 18:45:55 2015. Light rail makes no sense for the SIR. It's a high-level platform, heavy rail rapid transit operation. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Aug 27 19:28:44 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by WillD on Thu Aug 27 18:24:53 2015. Sounds like they should do a better job coordinating with the ferry. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 27 19:41:14 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Aug 27 19:28:41 2015. High platforms and light rail are not mutually exclusive. See the DLR in London, MUNI Metro in San Francisco and the LA Metro Blue, Green, Gold and Expo lines. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by WillD on Thu Aug 27 21:56:38 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 27 18:45:55 2015. SIR is highly dependent on the Ferry, which the MTA has no control, over. The majority of the time, the ferry is NOT delayed, and the 15 minute trains are of no use.They don't need to run every 15 minutes. They could run one a minute or two after the departure of the ferry and then the next 5 to 8 minutes later. Those that get off the ferry quickly can board the first train, those that straggle off get a slight delay but still make it home with a much smaller delay than they otherwise would have encountered. It'd still be 4TPH, it'd just be skewed toward the ferry's arrival to make it more convenient for the passengers. They are 2 different railroads. So? You had no problem comparing HBLR to SIRT when everyone "knew" SIRT just had to be faster. It turns out that isn't the case and suddenly any comparison between the two is invalid? I would want to see computer analysis on how a HBLRT cars would perform on the SIR given its loads and distance between stops. You already know the factors that are going to go into any such analysis, so you can make an educated guess at the outcome. The LRV accelerates faster, has an equal number of doors per passenger, and operates at the same speed. The LRV is going to be faster for a given route. Then go though some cost/benefit analysis to rebuilding all the platforms, including the many at ST George, then compare to the modest benefit of just maybe 22 verses 20MPH. Rebuilding? Who said anything about rebuilding anything? There are high floor LRVs. There may be a few inches between the LRV floor height and the current platform heights, but that should be able to be taken care of with some ballast and tamping to raise the top of rail. then compare to the modest benefit of just maybe 22 verses 20MPH. That "modest" benefit is enough to get the passengers to Tottenville 5 minutes faster than with NYCT's slow rolling stock. I think SIers might appreciate getting back the ten minutes the insistence on SIRT being a heavy rail line robs from them. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by WillD on Thu Aug 27 22:19:53 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 27 17:41:22 2015. It would take 4 articulated cars to equal a 4 car R44.Well 3 with two of NJT's extended LRVs and a single original HBLR car. And that'd be the same length as a 4 car R44 set. Go with a wider body, high platform LRT and it could be that the LRV would carry more passengers in the same length. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 28 06:38:10 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by WillD on Thu Aug 27 21:56:38 2015. They already hold the train several minutes for a late ferry. When they will not, such as for trackwork requiring some single-tracking, that becomes a service announcement. It does not happen that often. So running 4 trains per hour, albeit at uneven intervals, is a solution looking for a problem.We can run 4 car subway trains OPTO, assuming battles can be overcome with FRA and then the UTU. So that takes care of your crew costs issues. A 2 MPH improvement means 42 minutes running time becomes 38 minutes from Tottenville. It would average 2 minutes per trip for the rest of the line, varying from 0 to 4 minutes. That is a hardly noticeable improvement and won't cut costs. The Ferry trip itself can vary by that much time depending on currents and the weather. High floor LRV's in Buffalo weigh more then WMATA aluminum cars. If you are going to have an LRV car with a subway car level floor, you will simply have an LRV car trying to be a subway car. We can change the gear ratios on subway cars to be like WMATA or PATCO cars to speed them up their acceleration. It is also a function of power distribution, which SIR has not had adequate supply. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 28 06:41:20 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by WillD on Thu Aug 27 22:19:53 2015. The extended NJT LRV's will have a 5% reduction in performance levels. I heard it right from the horse's mouth at NJT. Add on wider body and higher floor, wit the associated weight, you will be back to subway car performance |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 28 06:42:03 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Aug 27 19:28:44 2015. Or DOT needs to run the Ferry every 20 minutes like they used to. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Fri Aug 28 07:49:38 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 27 19:41:14 2015. the load factor is. As stated one Ferry delay and you are leaving pax at the plat LRV's would be at crush loads. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Fri Aug 28 07:57:15 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 27 18:45:55 2015. In the mid 80's when I took it to High School they ran five cars. The end or motor cars had two sets of doors locked out as they only platformed half of each end car.Of course the train carried a crew of 3 or 4 and fares collected on board (Motorman, Conductor and Trainman) and they would open the locked doors at St. George by going behind the door panel above the seats. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Aug 28 10:15:52 2015, in response to SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Dan on Wed Aug 26 15:09:27 2015. Very interesting. Thank you. I always enjoy riding the SIRR whenever I'm in New York. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Aug 28 13:16:16 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Aug 28 10:15:52 2015. LOL! |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 15:47:15 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 27 19:41:14 2015. Then what's the point of light rail in that case? |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 16:00:08 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 28 06:42:03 2015. That's a good idea too. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 16:01:52 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by WillD on Thu Aug 27 21:56:38 2015. The newer subway cars still can't match light rail acceleration? I find that hard to believe. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 28 16:14:41 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 15:47:15 2015. There is none. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 28 16:16:15 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 16:01:52 2015. We all know the various 75' subway cars are rather sluggish. That is why the R68 has the nickname "Hippo". Some variant of the R160/179/211 would do just fine. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 28 16:17:16 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 16:00:08 2015. Back then, SIR ran 3 cars trains. Now, there are no engineer stop markers or conductor boards for 3 cars, just 2, 4, & 5. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 28 17:47:33 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 28 16:16:15 2015. Not true. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Aug 28 17:56:47 2015, in response to SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Dan on Wed Aug 26 15:09:27 2015. So they can build HSR between Dallas and Houston before you can put a new car on the tracks in parts in NY.Is what i'm gathering from all the topics listed on here. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 28 17:59:18 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by orange blossom special on Fri Aug 28 17:56:47 2015. I'll believe HSR in Texas when I see it. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Aug 28 21:04:17 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 16:01:52 2015. Yes, the foamer "common sense" a theme around here. Apparently others don't believe it either. But numbers are numbers. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Aug 28 21:18:12 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 28 06:38:10 2015. We can run 4 car subway trains OPTO, assuming battles can be overcome with FRA and then the UTU. So that takes care of your crew costs issues.Battles which would be easier to fight if they were to go to LRTs. That is a hardly noticeable improvement and won't cut costs. Yet you've used a 5 minute time savings as a justification of your 7 train to Secaucus scheme. So again you present another double standard. If it helps your case then those 5 minutes are vital. If you're arguing for maintaining the existing underperforming equipment (why?), it's suddenly "hardly noticeable". If you are going to have an LRV car with a subway car level floor, you will simply have an LRV car trying to be a subway car. ...which will still be lighter weight than whatever monster NYCT is going to procure as their next generation subway car. You can cherry pick to find a heavy rail vehicle lighter than an LRV, but NYCT isn't going to buy a WMATA Rohr car, and NJT didn't buy Buffalo LRVs (nor should SIRT be equipped with NJT LRVs). We can change the gear ratios on subway cars to be like WMATA or PATCO cars to speed them up their acceleration. No, you can't, because then you're simply giving up top end speed for acceleration. The only way you're going to get higher speed is to increase power or reduce weight, which means... It is also a function of power distribution, which SIR has not had adequate supply. That seems to me a perfect reason to go with LRVs. They'll accelerate faster with less weight and result in a smaller current draw on the power distribution equipment. Actually, going to two shorter LRV trains running a couple of minutes apart is a perfect way to reduce peak demand on the rectifiers. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Aug 28 21:43:31 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 28 06:41:20 2015. While I've been using their LRVs as an example, there are plenty of LRVs as long, if not longer than those which maintain a comparable performance level by simply using a slightly more powerful motor. It just so happens that they're a kludge. Rotterdam's Type S "Metro" cars from Bombardier are based on the manufacturer's Flexity LRVs and offer high platform boarding, 3rd rail compatibility, and LRV acceleration with higher capacity than most LRVs deliver. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 21:46:08 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by WillD on Fri Aug 28 21:18:12 2015. Subway cars can take off like a rocket ship if you build them to do it. I'm not as familiar with the B division cars, but the A division cars on the Lex Ave take off like a rocket ship. And the M-8's, while FRA heavy rail, are pretty close to that, and they weigh a lot more than any subway or rapid transit car.If SIR has a power issue that stops them from running rocketship-like trains, then upgrade the substations. MN and LIRR can make a 12,000HP train take off on parts of their third rail systems, there's nothing fundamentally different about the physics of B division subway cars, so SIR should be easy in comparison. Electric railroads should not be operated around the limits of their power supplies. Their power supplies should be upgraded to support the worst-case scenario imaginable in terms of power draw. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Aug 29 01:17:47 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 28 21:46:08 2015. but the A division cars on the Lex Ave take off like a rocket shipIn my country, we call that a joke. And the M-8's, while FRA heavy rail Go to Germany and prepare to be amazed. :-) Subway cars can take off like a rocket ship if you build them to do it Of course, but NYCTA's management presumes that their employees are cokeheads, and they're not inclined to trust the braking ability of their rolling stock to stop in time even if the signals perform as intended. So they're unlikely to purchase such equipment for their network, let alone for SIR unless they opt for something different and more suitable for that operating arrangement. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 29 07:02:13 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by WillD on Fri Aug 28 21:04:17 2015. Your don't ride them every day. Other people do. Most agree the R32's and R160's are better performers. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 29 07:15:12 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by WillD on Fri Aug 28 21:18:12 2015. As usually, you are hung up on your idealogy, not reality.Battles with FRA and UTU are battles, regardless of LRT. In practice. your scheme of 4 trains per hour won't work. People are not going to dawdle off the Ferry and evenly distribute themselves between the 2 trains. If the Ferry is late, you can't jam them all on the later train. Northbound, people will load on the train that connects with the Ferry, not the one 10 minutes before. I used #7 scheme mainly as a means to divert people out of congested PABT, NYPS, and Times Square, not to save "5 minutes". I DID say Secaucus - Times Square will take 16 minutes because the Parsons report said so. I also said your LRT scheme AVERAGES 2 minutes over the lenght of the route savings, not 5 minutes savings. No double standard there. Your alleged lightweight LRV for SIR is purely imaginary. It is neither an NJT nor NFTA car. So you can't claim anything about better performance. In case you haven't notice, WMATA does not buy lightweight, aero-aluminum, telescopic junk anymore, but heavier, stainless cars. Yes we can change gear ratios and still preserve adequate speeds. SIR trains need not go 70MPH. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 29 07:20:43 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by WillD on Fri Aug 28 21:04:17 2015. You also failed to take into account the TA has deliberately degraded the performance of their entire fleet from original spec, the final trigger was the Willamsburg Bridge disaster.Nonetheless, I still get a jolt sufficient to knock me down and have to hold on at times when an R32 starts up from a dead stop. I have been at the RFW - you have not. That is not "foamer nonsense" as you put it. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Aug 29 09:48:24 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Aug 28 13:16:16 2015. lol? |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sat Aug 29 10:11:01 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 29 07:20:43 2015. I think you are on point. The performance capabilities of equipment is often very different from how it is operated. Track (both condition and layout), power availability, signal setups, and how the agency wants them run are all huge factors in the way a car is operated. The R-44 as delivered broke speed records for subway cars during initial testing on LIRR track. How they ran in the real world, see above. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Aug 29 11:38:42 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by pragmatist on Sat Aug 29 10:11:01 2015. the R44`s on sirt did hit 80mph. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 29 12:55:08 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Aug 29 11:38:42 2015. From what I read, it was 83MPH, with several trucks cut out to simulate a passenger load, and the engineer/motorman/whatever claimed he was still accelerating when he had to slow down for Jamaica. So it was accelerating all the way from Harold to Kew Gardens.Back to WillD's proposal, using HIS numbers, - 4 minutes time saved from Tottenville. - 2 minute time saved from Oakwood Hts (around the mid point) - Half the people take the direct train - ferry connection - Half the people take the indirect train - ferry connection, and he claims he would run those trains 8 minutes apart. On average, - typically time saved on the train is 2 minutes. - typical connection dwell time at St George increased by 4 minutes - half would be the same, half would be 8 minutes. NET travel time for the average passenger from an SIR station to South Ferry terminal increases 2 minutes by averaging 2 minutes time saved on the train and 4 minutes more time spent at St George. So, no capital planning tool would recommend LRV conversion of SIR. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Aug 29 17:05:45 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 29 12:55:08 2015. joe v.we are talking about 2 different railroads.the R44`s test run on the lirr hit a top speed of 87.7mph.i,m talking about an in servicepassenger sirt train that was radar gun clocked at 80 mph. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 29 17:31:36 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Aug 29 17:05:45 2015. Ok, never knew that did that on SI. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat Aug 29 18:59:20 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by SLRT on Thu Aug 27 16:22:22 2015. You are right, interesting. They are complaining about old cars and not being treated fairly? I'm sure the riders of the A, C, J, R and Z trains that are subjected to cars from the '60s (R32s, R42s) as well as themid '70s (R46s) feel they are not getting a fair share, especially the riders of the A, C and R trains. Please. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Aug 29 19:52:27 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat Aug 29 18:59:20 2015. In all fairness, all those lines except for the A at least have SOME new cars running on them... |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sat Aug 29 20:55:02 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by WillD on Fri Aug 28 21:04:17 2015. What post were you trying to link to? |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sat Aug 29 20:55:25 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by pragmatist on Sat Aug 29 10:11:01 2015. He's not on point. |
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Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sat Aug 29 20:56:13 2015, in response to Re: SI Railway - no new cars till 2020 - NY1 video, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 29 17:31:36 2015. own3d |
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