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| (1364237) | |
Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by NorthernBlvd on Fri Aug 28 00:55:47 2015 Is it a mistake that it only lists "A F" for Jay St./MetroTech? It's been a while since I've ridden the N via Whitehall, but I feel like it's always stopped there if I remember.... |
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| (1364269) | |
Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by GIS Man on Fri Aug 28 08:56:52 2015, in response to Late night map mistake?, posted by NorthernBlvd on Fri Aug 28 00:55:47 2015. Indeed, I never noticed it before, but that certainly is an error. The (N) does stop there late at night.Bob |
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Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 09:25:41 2015, in response to Late night map mistake?, posted by NorthernBlvd on Fri Aug 28 00:55:47 2015. This mistake happened because when Montague St Tunnel closed in 2013, late night (N) service was rerouted via the Manhattan Bridge. When the tunnel reopened last year, whoever edits the map forgot to re-add the (N) to Jay St.The map also has another mistake: 57 St-7 Av, 14 St-Union Square and Canal St stations on the Broadway Line are shown as express stops, when they should be shown as local stops, now that the (Q) runs local in Manhattan at night. The map has to be updated again soon to add in 34 St-Hudson Yards, but I'll bet that neither of these mistakes gets fixed. |
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Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by Allan on Fri Aug 28 10:10:56 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 09:25:41 2015. 57 St-7 Av, 14 St-Union Square and Canal St stations are still express stations in that there are 2 center island platforms versus a local station which is a side platform on a 4 track line. |
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Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 10:45:38 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by Allan on Fri Aug 28 10:10:56 2015. The station layout is irrelevant. On the late night map, any station that has local only service is listed as a local stop. Which makes sense.Kings Highway station on the F line has 2 center island platforms, but there is no express service at that stop. I think we can agree that the map should not display it as an express stop. During late night hours, 57 St-7 Av, 14 St-Union Square and Canal St have no express service. They should not be shown as express stops. The fact that they are shown as express stops is a mistake. |
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| (1364278) | |
Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by milantram on Fri Aug 28 10:55:22 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 10:45:38 2015. IAWTP |
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| (1364290) | |
Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Aug 28 13:16:00 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 09:25:41 2015. but I'll bet that neither of these mistakes gets fixed.Why not help prove yourself wrong by alerting MTA customer service? |
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Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 14:08:11 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Aug 28 13:16:00 2015. I actually did send a customer service email a few months ago, although I found the service confusing and it probably didn't reach the right department.I sent another one just now, and sent it under "Request" about "Maps". And I even included screenshots of the errors. So I think it went more-or-less to the right area. I'm tempted to resubmit the same question under different areas, just to increase the chance that more people see it. |
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| (1364300) | |
Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 28 14:49:18 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 10:45:38 2015. It’s not really a mistake since so called “express stations” are stations where both local and express trains stop. I don’t know of any stations on the system where express trains stop and local trains don’t unless you want to count stations on lines like the A where the A exp continues on to 207 St while the C local terminates at 168 St. The stations inquisition are correctly designated as express stops since the locals stop there even when there is no express service running. The status of the station is a constant regardless of what services operate through it. |
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| (1364307) | |
Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 15:00:05 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 28 14:49:18 2015. In this thread, we are talking specifically about the Late Night map. Look at 14 St-Union Square station. At night, all the lines stopping there - the 4, 6, L, N and Q - run local. Because all the lines stopping there run local, Union Square should be displayed on the Late Night map as a local stop. Displaying it as an express stop (which is what the current Late Night map does) is a mistake. In the context of the Late Night map, the layout of a station and whether or not it has express service during the day is completely irrelevant. All that matters is whether or not the services stopping there during Late Night hours are local. |
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| (1364319) | |
Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by NorthernBlvd on Fri Aug 28 15:33:26 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 28 14:49:18 2015. It's an inconsistency because on the Grand Concourse Line, 8th Ave. Line, 7th Ave. Line, Lexington Ave. Line, 4th Ave., Eastern Parkway Line, Brooklyn Broadway, and Brighton Line, the late night map displays no white dots for express. <6> and <7> express stops are also labeled with a black dot. |
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| (1364343) | |
Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 28 17:38:33 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 15:00:05 2015. Although most midnight service are operated as all local, it would be confusing the designate the stations under different classifications dependent on the time of day. This is especially true for passengers using the system in one direction during normal hours and returning during the midnight hours or even more critically, the other way around. A passenger using the system overnight to go in one direction, would definitely need to know where the express stations are located if returning after normal service is resumed in the morning. |
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| (1364369) | |
Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 19:35:57 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 28 17:38:33 2015. The whole point of the Late Night map is to show service patterns at night wholly and accurately, right? If we show daytime express and local service patterns on the map, that defeats the purpose of making it.If a stop has no express service Late Nights, it should not be shown on the Late Night map as an express stop. And like NorthernBlvd said, stops that have express service during the day but not as night (such as 86 St (4)(6), 14 St (1)(2) and Atlantic Av-Barclays Center) are already correctly shown on the Late Night map as local stops. The only reason 57 St-7 Av, 14 St-Union Square and Canal St are shown as express stops is because somebody neglected to change them to local stops when the Late Night (Q) started running local. Which isn't too surprising, since the maps have other errors (like the Jay St error that started this very thread!) And if riders can understand that lines like the (C) don't run or run differently at night, surely they can understand that some stations that have express service during the day do not at night. The former seems like it would be a much bigger problem to me than the latter. The map clearly states which dot represents stops with local service and which dot represents stops with express service. |
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Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by Allan on Fri Aug 28 20:31:25 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 14:08:11 2015. This assumes they will do another issue of the Late Night map.Since they added that late night and weekend "grid" describing the service changes during those periods on the regular map, someone at the MTA may feel there is no reason to spend the money on a Late Night edition. |
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| (1364374) | |
Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 21:00:09 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by Allan on Fri Aug 28 20:31:25 2015. The Late Night map will have to be updated soon to show 34 St-Hudson Yards. |
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| (1364403) | |
Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by zac on Fri Aug 28 22:23:26 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 19:35:57 2015. It is an express stop whether any express trains are running or not. They are also either transfer points or terminals. And Canal St has expresses stopping there, the Q is going over the bridge, right? That is bypassing all the tunnel stops making it an express.BMAFG. |
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Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Fri Aug 28 22:45:46 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by zac on Fri Aug 28 22:23:26 2015. It is an express stop whether any express trains are running or not. They are also either transfer points or terminals. And Canal St has expresses stopping there, the Q is going over the bridge, right? That is bypassing all the tunnel stops making it an express.A white dot means "all trains stop (local and express service)," according to the legend. Transfer points and terminals have nothing to do with it. The late-night map even has a black dot at Stillwell, which is both. If the Q is considered an express because it skips a series of lower Manhattan stops, then why aren't there white dots at Prince, 8th, 23rd, 28th, and 49th, where both the N and Q stop? It's either wrong or it's inconsistent (which is just another way of being wrong). 
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Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by Allan on Sat Aug 29 15:22:32 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 21:00:09 2015. Perhaps only the online edition will get updated. There is no way to know if they will do another print version because of the reason I cited. |
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| (1364448) | |
Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by Allan on Sat Aug 29 15:26:24 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Fri Aug 28 22:45:46 2015. Prince, 8th, 23rd, 28th, and 49th - being side platforms - are all local stations regardless of what trains stop there.There is only a platform for the local tracks. |
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| (1364542) | |
Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 30 15:02:17 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by zac on Fri Aug 28 22:23:26 2015. The bridge vs tunnel is probably unique to the BMT. Rather than being Exp vs lcl, they are actually 2 separate lines since during the course of its history, certain local trains have operated via the bridge and certain express trains have operated via the tunnel. If a given express line operated via the tunnel as was the case with the Brighton and Culver “Bankers’ Specials” of the old BMT days, then those stations are in effect express stops. When the old Myrtle Av (Gold St) station was open, express trains via the bridge stopped there while local trains via the tunnel did not. |
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Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sat Sep 12 14:49:23 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by Mysterious2train on Fri Aug 28 09:25:41 2015. The map has to be updated again soon to add in 34 St-Hudson Yards, but I'll bet that neither of these mistakes gets fixed.Both have been fixed. |
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| (1366550) | |
Re: Late night map mistake? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Sep 12 21:57:55 2015, in response to Re: Late night map mistake?, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sat Sep 12 14:49:23 2015. Owned! |
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