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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Aug 20 23:59:38 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Aug 20 21:51:43 2015. If you can't outwalk them, then they aren't all that slow. I don't remember NYC buses being too slow even in Manhattan. Of course, Bloomberg's messing with traffic patterns may have affected them adversely. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Aug 21 00:40:26 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Aug 20 23:52:28 2015. At least now it makes sense....albeit very depressing |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Aug 21 00:41:40 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Aug 20 23:55:20 2015. I'm not talking about NJ residents filling jobs in NYC. You said NJ has been siphoning employment away from NY and over to NJ, so my response to you was that NYC needs to do what it can to deter that |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Aug 21 01:11:53 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Aug 21 00:41:40 2015. There's a big difference in the living styles of millennials and the previous generations of baby boomers and WWII veterans. The millennials prefer the urban life style to suburbia. They are the ones who have gentrified the new upscale neighborhoods of NYC.Millennials now make up the majority of the workforce. They are less likely to uproot themselves (or their companies) to the suburban industrial campus settings. Some of the businesses that relocated to NJ or CT have returned to NYC. The reason is they could not attract the needed brain power in suburbia. It's the reason that NYC is leading the region in job and wage growth. NYC's need to continue this trend is to make the City more attractive for millennials to set up homes and families. This means investing in infrastructure within NYC. The Hudson River tunnels don't fit this category. |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 21 08:26:42 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Aug 20 20:49:07 2015. Correct. |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by subfan on Fri Aug 21 08:44:57 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Aug 20 23:45:47 2015. That is correct as it relates to non-NYC residents. NYC and Yonkers individual resident taxes are collected by NYS on behalf of the cities.subfan, CPA (yes, really) |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Aug 21 08:55:39 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by WillD on Tue Aug 18 03:23:46 2015. Compared to places like New Orleans or the Netherlands NYC has nothing to worry about. Residential towers are sprouting like weeds in the city and new construction can be made flood resistant. Jersey waterfront development also doesn't need new Hudson runnels since the PATH or expanded ferry service would be more convenient. |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Aug 21 10:41:23 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Aug 21 01:11:53 2015. NYC is not the only place millennials are filling into. Check out the craigslist adds. Jersey City is so chock full of them that it's spilling down into Greenville. Newark will be another one soon enough (supposedly it's already begun in the Ironbound) and Harrison is developing everything in sight. And Hoboken, well, we all know what happened there. Millennials who can't afford NYC are moving to the fringe which still gives a slightly urban feel (though nothing will on the scale of NYC). |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 21 17:24:17 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Aug 20 23:41:01 2015. Ok, so maybe the direct tax revenue is limited. What's more important is the larger economic impact. I know that CT's budget is largely dependent on the New Haven Line for money coming up from NYC into Fairfield county. |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 21 17:35:46 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Aug 21 01:11:53 2015. For certain high-wage, creative types of industries, they do need to be in the city. And yes, Millennials are more likely to live in the city, but it remains to be seen how "sticky" the city is to them once more Millennials start getting married and having kids. There has been a noticeable shift towards urban living, but it's not all-encompassing, and there are a LOT of people who still don't want to live in the city. There's also the whole market thing, where city living is so expensive that a lot of people just can't afford it. NYC certainly needs more housing, and there are certainly a lot of people who want to live in the center of the universe, but not everyone will.It's true that NYC needs to invest in NYC... the tunnels should mostly be NJ's problem, and a little bit Amtrak's problem. NYC's fastest job growth in happening in the boroughs, and better transit is needed out there. TriboroRX is the single largest project I can think of, but better transportation of all kinds is important if NYC is going to continue to grow with a diversity of people and job opportunities. |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Aug 21 17:58:40 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 21 17:35:46 2015. NYC's fastest job growth in happening in the boroughsHistorically more outer borough people work in their own borough than work in Manhattan. This was especially true when NYC was an industrial city. The inter outer borough commute is an order of magnitude less than working in the same borough and commuting to Manhattan. TriboroRX is the single largest project I can think of, It's a diversion to prevent expansion of the subway system to areas that are not currently served. |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 21 18:12:56 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Aug 20 23:55:20 2015. It depends on your skill set too.It's a buyers market: employers want 100% perfect match and immediate;y productive, not 90%, not 110% (over qualified - and they'll quit on them). So wherever they can get them. NYC has the sheer volume of people, and a lot of younger people moving in, which employers want too - lower medical costs and no pensions. |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 21 18:16:02 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Aug 20 20:05:47 2015. What I do not want to see is $10B blown away at PABT, which does not do much for trans-Hudson capacity. |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 21 18:18:07 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Aug 20 22:28:40 2015. Compared to Nassau and Suffolk, NJ has pretty shitty local bus service. |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 21 18:20:57 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Aug 20 23:52:28 2015. Christie is largely a relic of the 1970's, like Kasich and Walker.Commuter trains are for commuters, buses are for "those" people, and we should all strive to live behind picket fences in auto-dependent subdivisions and go to the mall. |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 21 22:01:10 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Aug 21 17:58:40 2015. I've heard of some pretty whacky commutes in or between the outer Boroughs. There are people going everywhere. If nothing else, improving transit in and between the outer Boroughs will give people better access to jobs around the city.How is TriboroRX a diversion? It's the single biggest project to increase mobility in the city, and it would hit a whole bunch of currently underserved areas, and utilize the currently severely under-utilized ROW. Even if the cross-harbor tunnel is realized, there is plenty of capacity for TriboroRX to operate. There is no question that there are some improvements or addition to the Subway system that would be worthwhile to reach under-served areas. However, TriboroRX is still an incredibly important project. The connectivity that it would provide is simply unparalleled. |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Aug 21 23:32:57 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by ElectricTraction on Fri Aug 21 22:01:10 2015. I've heard of some pretty whacky commutes in or between the outer Boroughs....One should not plan from anecdotes. Here's a link to the county-to-county work flows estimated by the US Census. It's a spreadsheet. Here's the excerpt for the borough to borough work flow. You should be able to paste it into a spreadsheet "From/To>","Bronx","Kings","New York","Queens","Richmond","Total" "Bronx",231832,19606,193345,23728,828,469339 "Kings",14056,550814,402684,70162,6028,1043744 "New York",27838,25719,705133,22046,1677,782413 "Queens",21567,90799,368049,441400,2220,924035 "Richmond",1209,29208,49238,5379,101300,186334 "Total",296502,716146,1718449,562715,112053,3405865 The biggest interborough flow is between Brooklyn and Queens, with 70K of 1M Brooklyn residents commuting to Queens and 91K of 924K Queens residents commuting to Brooklyn. These numbers represent a small fraction of Brooklyn or Queens residents working in their home borough or in Manhattan. How is TriboroRX a diversion? If you look at the numbers the number of interborough work commutes to/from the Bronx and Queens/Brooklyn is less than 20K. So, Bronx to Bklyn/Qns would be 40K max and similarly the Bklyn/Qns to Bronx would be another 40K max. That's a total of 80K max out of 3.4 million workers or 2.4% of the workforce. If one wants to make an improvement to improve the work commute, they should start with the other 97.6%. |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Aug 22 00:03:49 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Aug 21 23:32:57 2015. It's not a distraction at all. It also could be of value for people commuting within their own borough, or to Manhattan with connections to the various subway line. The network needs to be more of just that... a network, not a hub-and-spoke system. TriboroRX advances that goal more than anything else. It also provides new mobility options that may not have been terribly practical before. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Aug 22 00:08:42 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Aug 21 23:32:57 2015. What you miss by only looking at present trips is the potential for increased trips as a result of faster, more convenient connections. Opening new pathways gives riders new options for where they choose to live, work, shop, obtain medicalcare, and go to entertainment venues. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Aug 22 00:20:24 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Aug 22 00:03:49 2015. And, despite the cost of rehabbing the whole ROW, the basic route is state owned. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Aug 22 02:11:51 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Aug 22 00:08:42 2015. IAWTP. This is the main reason I'm also a proponent of Triboro RX. |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Aug 22 09:21:36 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Aug 22 00:08:42 2015. Exactly. The cross-connectivity it provides by connecting to almost all of the subway lines is pretty impressive. |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Aug 22 09:29:26 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Aug 21 23:32:57 2015. While the statistics are quite useful and not to be summarily dismissed, I would also like to point out that two reasons people commute where they do are (1) the jobs are there and (2) getting there is within reason. We could also say that few people commute between Suffolk County and Connecticut, so therefore improving transportation between those two points should not be a high priority. However, the #1 reason that few people make that commute is that it isn't practical. Driving takes too long and the ferry is too expensive. If one could drive between Port Jefferson and Bridgeport or take a high-speed train across the Long Island Sound, more people would be interested in such a commute.Whether or not enough people would be interested in non-Manhattan commuting to justify large amounts of capital and operating expenditures to make it practical is another story. I do think that in an ideal world we would have at least one subway line that ran from Brooklyn to Queens to the Bronx, perhaps some sort of outer loop that would also serve as a feeder to the Manhattan trunk lines. But I just spent $20- $50 billion in one sentence, so while I can dream, it won't happen in today's political and construction climate. |
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Posted by TonyG on Sat Aug 22 16:30:54 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Aug 21 01:11:53 2015. Milennials are choosing urban areas because most of them don't have families as of yet.As soon as Milennials start marrying and having children, they will flock to the suburbs. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 22 18:10:47 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by TonyG on Sat Aug 22 16:30:54 2015. Wishful thinking. There is no evidence of them flocking to the suburbs. They are not all the same age. This generation's living preferences and patterns are different than previous. |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Aug 22 18:46:35 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by TonyG on Sat Aug 22 16:30:54 2015. Don't count on the milennials marrying and having children. The contraceptive mentality is too entrenched, and marriage is on the ropes these days. |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Aug 22 19:16:33 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 22 18:10:47 2015. Absolutely!!The Millennials are far different than any earlier generation (including mine and the one that came after mine) I can remember. It's a generation that for example seems to think any championship event has to be at night or its unimportant, something for example I think people in Horse Racing fail to realize and will have a rude awakening when the Breeders' Cup takes place October 30-31 at Keeneland. Even with American Pharoah making his likely final start in the BC Classic, many Millennials won't care solely because of it taking place in the daytime as they have been conditioned to believe it has to be at night. Just one example of how different they really are, which I say as one who actually deals with those types and how they have changed. |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Aug 22 19:17:55 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by 3-9 on Sat Aug 22 02:11:51 2015. +1 |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Aug 22 20:29:40 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Aug 22 18:46:35 2015. Some are, some are not. There has been a rise of single, childless people, as well as DINKs in decent decades, but a lot of people are still settling down and having children. There is a general trend toward urbanization, but there are a LOT of people who don't want to live in the city and love their cars.The biggest thing about generational changes is a greater diversity in how people live their lives and what they do. The generational changes are driving virtually all of the housing starts in the northeastern US to be MDUs, but that doesn't mean that no one is buying the existing housing stock in the 'burbs and fixing them up/ re-doing them, etc. There are other generational changes that will drive big changes in the usage of our crumbling infrastructure, namely experiential spending, spending a lot more money on travel and events, and a lot less buying shit at stores. There are a lot of people from the 'burbs who want to live and work in NYC, and a lot of them are doing that, but a certain percentage of them are going to move out of the city. These changes in general mean that the larger metro areas are going to keep growing, and the small ones are going to be in even worse shape than they were before. NYC should be planning for more and better transportation, including generational changes, but unfortunately, our infrastructure is so screwed up from a federal level all the way down, NYC is just falling farther behind the needs, even as NYC is basically the only place other than Denver actually involved in major capital projects for transit. |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Aug 22 20:44:17 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Aug 22 19:16:33 2015. That was a strange semi-rant. Horse racing and betting on it isn't very popular anymore. It's just not that interesting, and that has nothing to do with what time it is on. NASCAR has issues too, again, it's just not that interesting. But other sports and other events are far more popular. People's collective tastes change over time. That's been going on for hundreds of years, nothing new. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Aug 23 10:02:13 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Aug 22 09:29:26 2015. Whether or not enough people would be interested in non-Manhattan commuting to justify large amounts of capital and operating expenditures to make it practical is another story.It's THE story, if there are other projects that would benefit more people - especially those NYC residents who do not enjoy subway access. I do think that in an ideal world we would have at least one subway line that ran from Brooklyn to Queens to the Bronx, perhaps some sort of outer loop that would also serve as a feeder to the Manhattan trunk lines. But I just spent $20- $50 billion in one sentence, The question is where the first $5 billion should be spent to have its biggest impact. The engineering solution is to look for projects that benefit more than 2.4% of the commuting public. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Aug 23 10:14:16 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Aug 22 00:03:49 2015. It also could be of value for people commuting within their own borough,That depends on whether the current right-of-way passes close to existing job centers. It doesn't. The network needs to be more of just that... a network, not a hub-and-spoke system Like the G train? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Aug 23 10:17:33 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Aug 22 00:08:42 2015. What you miss by only looking at present trips is the potential for increased trips as a result of faster, more convenient connections.Extending the subway system to areas that are not currently served will provide that option to more people than Triboro RX proposal. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 23 10:59:38 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Aug 23 10:14:16 2015. The old Myrtle Avenue L would do fine today. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 23 11:52:02 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 16 12:51:39 2015. As much as we dislike Gov Christie (myself included) the 600 pound gorilla in the room (besides Christie) is the cost. It will wind up close to double the starting cost. You know it and I know it. Yet another consortium of overpaid unions, crooked contractors with their cost overruns, and look-the-other-way government officials. Funny, I don't hear anyone talking about WHY we don't have more rail tunnels, given these factual circumstances! |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Aug 23 12:03:07 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 23 10:59:38 2015. Just about all the territory covered by the lower Myrtle, is served by other lines. Rebuilding it would not add subway service to any substantial number of people or job locations. The sole exception is the Navy Yard. However, Bike Share places the Navy Yard within 10 minutes of the Jay St (F) and Marcy Ave (JMZ) stations. That's equivalent to a 1/2 mile walk. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 23 13:27:15 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Aug 23 10:17:33 2015. And doing both would be even better. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 23 14:11:44 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Aug 22 20:29:40 2015. The Millenials do not regard an auto as a status symbol, but only as a tool. If they can do without it, they will. Their priorities are playing with their devices as a obsession. They cannot walk to the bathroom, literally, without putting the damned thing down. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 23 14:56:11 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 23 14:11:44 2015. Not all of them. Only some of them. Only a higher % vs other generations. |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 23 19:39:21 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Aug 23 10:14:16 2015. The G train is nothing compared to TriboroRX. TriboroRX will enable for more connectivity between various subway lines. |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 23 19:48:45 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 23 14:11:44 2015. Cranky old person alert! Most millennials still have cars and prefer to be able to drive places. And while many don't see cars as status symbols, many are really into cars in a more technical sense. |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 23 19:54:31 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 23 13:27:15 2015. IAWTP |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 23 20:34:20 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 23 19:39:21 2015. And for the classic "high use destination" score--Brooklyn College. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 23 20:38:30 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 23 19:48:45 2015. Total VMT is down nationwide. Car ownership among millennials is the lowest cohort. Millennials are greater users of zipcar/city car share. And, high users of bicycles. as well as transit. |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Aug 23 22:16:42 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by WillD on Wed Aug 19 03:16:51 2015. the answer is simple then: crosstown canals. somewhere downtown and somewhere in midtown. hell, make 'em elevated, ala roeblings bridge over the Delaware River. kidding...mostly. |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 23 22:34:50 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 23 20:34:20 2015. Yup. Would make Brooklyn College attractive to a larger audience. |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 23 22:50:48 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 23 20:38:30 2015. Wow, you've bought into the media hype hook, line and sinker. While all of these "alternatives" to motor vehicle ownership have had explosive growth over the past few years, they are still teeny, tiny, little things compared to driving a car places, and most of the non-car uses are because people can't afford cars. That's obviously not the case in NYC, but virtually everywhere else, that is the case.The data shows that even in transit-heavy cities, the vast majority of people still drive cars basically everywhere. NYC, and to a lesser degree, Chicago, Philly, Boston, and Washington couldn't exist as they do today without their mass transit systems, but once you move much out of the downtown areas, the share of car transportation goes through the roof. Even in Portland, OR, which has epic traffic and the amazing MAX light rail system, transit has a 7% market share. There is no question that there is a generational shift in attitudes towards transit and cars and urban living, but the fact of the matter is that most places that most people want to go are still car-only, and even where there are transit-heavy urban areas, a lot of people can't afford to live in them because they are so expensive. I hope that more neighborhoods are redeveloped and built in a smart manner using TOD moving forward, although from what I've seen, I just see blunder after blunder in land use planning here in CT. It's hard to say exactly what VMTs being down actually means. It may be that roads have hit their maximum capacity so people just stop going places. Telecommuting and lower numbers of people employed may affect it. More people flying places and not driving long distances may affect it. And people living in more urban areas, but still driving everywhere may also affect it. |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Aug 23 23:04:01 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 23 20:38:30 2015. Car ownership among millennials is the lowest cohort.It's partially because some of us have our income soaked up by student loans, and because some have opted for urban living where a car isn't as necessary. Mind you, some of us live in the 'burbs because we live at home with our parents, or that's where work is, or because they're not interested in an urban lifestyle. And yes, while some have written off new cars as boring expensive items that get in the way of fun, some of us have fun in our cars whether they're unmodded and fund to drive like my Mazda, or if they're hot hatches like my friend's modded GTI. |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 24 01:21:09 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 23 22:50:48 2015. The "media hype" you refer to mirrors what I experience in the SF Bay area. The large ongoing confrontation between cyclists and drivers which I see all around me is evidence that those persons aren't driving as much as the previous generations did. The 20 somethings I know who don't even have driving licenses are not the only two such brothers. |
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Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 24 02:49:24 2015, in response to Re: Cuomo Reluctant To Dig Deep For New Hudson Rail Tunnel, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Aug 23 23:04:01 2015. Yup; many different reasons, but one general result less auto centric behavior which adds to rising transit use. |
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