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| Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? (1358079) | |
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| (1358079) | |
Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Tue Jun 30 18:08:24 2015 If you look at the MTA Neighborhood MapsUnion Square The 3 eastern stations are about one avenue apart, and the 3rd Ave and 1st Ave stations only have access on one side of the station. Why are they so close, and why doesn't the 3rd ave station have 2nd ave access, etc? |
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| (1358085) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Jun 30 19:08:13 2015, in response to Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by N6 Limited on Tue Jun 30 18:08:24 2015. At least the 1st Ave. station should open on Ave. A, as that part of town has no other subway.If SAS is built down there, the 3rd Ave. stop will gain a 2nd Ave. entrance to create a transfer. |
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| (1358087) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Jun 30 19:10:16 2015, in response to Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by N6 Limited on Tue Jun 30 18:08:24 2015. They are about the same distance apart as the 23, 28 and 33 St. stops on the Lex. |
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| (1358101) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jun 30 20:56:00 2015, in response to Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by N6 Limited on Tue Jun 30 18:08:24 2015. First Ave was built to interchange with the 2nd Ave el, which ran above 1st Ave, south of 23rd St. Third Ave was for the 3rd Ave el. |
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| (1358128) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 1 00:57:04 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by italianstallion on Tue Jun 30 19:10:16 2015. And the 18th, 23rd, 28th and 34th Street stations on the Broadway-7th Avenue Line.And the 23rd, 28th and 34th Street Street stations on the Broadway Line. |
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| (1358129) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 1 00:58:45 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jun 30 20:56:00 2015. Which makes sense, though an Avenue A entrance on the (L) would make sense given how even that area is getting built up. |
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| (1358152) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by Andy on Wed Jul 1 10:30:55 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jun 30 20:56:00 2015. More likely coincidence. Few people would have interchanged between the two els and the 14th St. Canarsie Line. The IRT operated the 2nd and 3rd Ave. Els. In Manhattan the BMT and IRT were competitors. There were never any free transfers between the two systems. 14th St. Line riders did have a free transfer to the BMT Broadway subway at Union Square for north-south travel. |
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| (1358157) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Jul 1 10:36:35 2015, in response to Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by N6 Limited on Tue Jun 30 18:08:24 2015. Crosstown stations tend to be closer.There are 12 essentially crosstown segments of subway in Manhattan: 1 on the J 1 on the F 4 on the L 2 on the 7 1 on the S 2 on the E 1 on the N/Q/R Except for the S, which is 0.5 miles long (measuring from same position on each platform), all of the other segments are 0.3 to hardly more than 0.4 miles long. The 2 eastern segments of the L are at the short end at 0.3 miles, but others are 0.3 miles also, like Lex to 5th on the E and Essex to Bowery on the J. |
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| (1358170) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Jul 1 12:18:22 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by Andy on Wed Jul 1 10:30:55 2015. No, I think the el theory makes sense. The BMT and IRT were competitors, but we're talking crosstown vs. north-south here, so the BMT would just be filling a gap that both had. Otherwise, the 14th St stations would have been spaced better. An argument can be made that the 1st Ave/Allen St entrance of the 2nd Ave/Houston St station is another instance. |
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| (1358176) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jul 1 12:58:12 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by Andy on Wed Jul 1 10:30:55 2015. The BMT and IRT were limited competitors. The BMT went many places the IRT didn't and vice versa.The Franklin-Nassau was pretty much a way for IRT passengers to get to Coney Island. Most people who went uptown from Park Row took the IRT. |
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| (1358178) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by The Silence on Wed Jul 1 13:06:29 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by Andy on Wed Jul 1 10:30:55 2015. Not having a free transfer between lines was a simple fact of life.If you needed to go somewhere the your service didn't go, did you just not go? Let's say you lived in an area the IRT didn't go, but were heading to the Polo Ground or Yankee Stadium. the Broadway line only gets you so far. are you that worried about another nickel you'd walk the 5 miles the rest of the way? |
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| (1358182) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jul 1 13:25:50 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by The Silence on Wed Jul 1 13:06:29 2015. Except for truncated or city-abandoned lines, like at Rockaway Avenue and Franklin Avenue on Fulton Street, I don't believe there were any interdivisional transfers until 1948 when the doubling of the fare from 5c to 10c made the city more "generous."An especially nasty "free" transfer was between the Myrtle El and Jay Street IND. You got a free transfer which was only supposed to take you as far as Broadway-Nassau (to replace Park Row service). I never knew anyone to check that you got off, but if you were going the other way, you could GET the transfer to Myrtle (and buses at High Street) ONLY if you asked for it when getting on at Broadway-Nassau. |
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| (1358189) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Wed Jul 1 14:07:03 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by SLRT on Wed Jul 1 13:25:50 2015. When I used the B54 that replaced the Myrtle el, I'd use those transfers (but not as intended, sssshhhhh!), and thought it funny that it was good only to Bway-Nassau. There was only one booth at Bway-Nassau that handed out the orange paper transfer tickets to go from the subway to the B54. The B54's loaded on Tillary St. down by Westinghouse. |
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| (1358190) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jul 1 14:10:07 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 1 00:58:45 2015. That was then- now is now! |
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| (1358192) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jul 1 14:21:32 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by 3-9 on Wed Jul 1 12:18:22 2015. I forgot that one- thanks! |
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| (1358195) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jul 1 14:33:39 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by Andy on Wed Jul 1 10:30:55 2015. Until 1931, the Canarsie line ended at 6th Ave, which also had an el. So, except for Union square, 3 of 4 stations were under elevated ones. The 8th ave station, opened 6/13/31 was built by the City to interchange with the 8th Ave IND subway, which opened the following year. |
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| (1358204) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jul 1 15:02:20 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by SLRT on Wed Jul 1 13:25:50 2015. I recall when going to the cemetary in 1958, My mother and I transfering from the iND to the Myrtle el at Jay St were able to get a paper transfer at Jay St much the same way as obtaining a transfer at Franklin/Fulton from the A toe the shuttle. |
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| (1358233) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jul 1 19:08:20 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jun 30 20:56:00 2015. I would think these stations were built in their present locations to steal passengers from these 2 el lines, not facilitate transferring. |
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| (1358259) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Jul 1 21:23:24 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jul 1 14:33:39 2015. Was that tunnel section west of 6th Ave. always there? Or was it added when the 8th Ave. station opened? |
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| (1358260) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by The Silence on Wed Jul 1 21:50:39 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Jul 1 21:23:24 2015. one would assume blank wall, the way 8th is today. you can still see the fenced up former cross over point between 6th and USQ |
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| (1358268) | |
Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Jul 1 23:04:44 2015, in response to Re: Why are the BMT 14th street line stations so close?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jul 1 19:08:20 2015. Yeah, because the L parallels those el lines . . . |
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