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| Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. (1348447) | |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 20 23:07:38 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Apr 20 19:49:04 2015. The official name remains Avenue of the Americas. Some recent mayor (Giuliani?), had the DOT add 6th Avenue signs along the street, but the Ave. of the Americas signs remain. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 20 23:09:12 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 20 23:07:38 2015. Just for the record, it was Rockefeller who insisted on that outside his plaza. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 20 23:25:00 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 20 23:09:12 2015. Heh. Even today, all the corporations along 6th insist on using Ave.of the Americas as their official address. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 20 23:37:56 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 20 23:25:00 2015. Changes to stationary is SO expensive. :) |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Apr 21 02:05:33 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 20 23:25:00 2015. Yep. If some one asked me where I work, I would say on 6th Avenue. But if someone asked me my office mailing address, I would say Avenue of the Americas. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 06:55:51 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by randyo on Mon Apr 20 16:14:31 2015. And only one of those things was an opinion. The other was a fact. If I believed your fact was in error, I would not have "disagreed" with it because that's not how it works. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 06:57:04 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 20 23:07:38 2015. Koch |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 07:00:09 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Apr 20 19:49:04 2015. What renaming nonsense? Van Wyck Blvd wasn't renamed, it was completely replaced with a road that's not a "boulevard." It's about time the subway station reflected that. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 07:02:06 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by randyo on Mon Apr 20 16:18:01 2015. The World Trade Center was and is not a private business.Despite being transit hubs, Penn Station and Grand Central were private businesses, and subway stations were still named after them. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by alm on Tue Apr 21 07:52:00 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 06:55:51 2015. Ok, why do you disagree. Looking at the map, Van Wyck Blvd is pretty major, connecting Queens Blvd to points south and providing access to the VWE.Why should a State Senator express contempt for a major route? |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by alm on Tue Apr 21 07:53:40 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 07:00:09 2015. ???Not what Google or Hagstrom shows. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 10:24:00 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Apr 20 19:49:04 2015. I hate street renamings. As well as the bridge renamings. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 10:58:24 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Apr 20 19:29:21 2015. Madison Square Garden has absolutely nothing to do with Madison Square.It's two entirely different destinations. The Slattery Plaza name has absolutely no relevance anymore, and naming it "Queens Center" for a private business is also not something that should be done. What's wrong with calling the station 'Woodhaven Blvd"? I have no problem with a small subtitle name with a sign that says "Queens Center", as they do do that for some other destinations, but there's no need to call the station "Queens Center". |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 11:01:19 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Apr 20 16:40:08 2015. Under these thoughts, do you think it would be appropriate to rename 34th St, "Macy's"? As for King Plaza, yes, it should be Avenue U, or Flatbush Ave/Avenue U, perhaps with a subtitle with Kings Plaza.There's no need to name a station for a shopping center. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 11:02:04 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by randyo on Mon Apr 20 16:18:01 2015. So? World Trade Center was not a private business. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 11:03:31 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 07:02:06 2015. Penn Station and Grand Central were transit hubs, even before when they were private enterprise, so it made sense to name the station for it.Times Square was also named for a private business, but the actual SQUARE was renamed Times Square from Longacre Square, so it was an actual public destination. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 11:05:25 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Apr 20 16:43:30 2015. That's no different when from any of the stations that have the two intersecting streets in the name. For example, Myrtle-Wyckoff Aves, and the list goes on. There is only one place where the intersecting streets meet, and that's at that location. The same goes for Roosevelt-74th. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Apr 21 11:27:05 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 11:01:19 2015. But is there need to name a station for an intersection either? Why have the ambiguity of yet but another "Avenue U station" in the system? Station names should provide clarity in as brief a manner as possible. "Kings Plaza" would be perfect for that hypothetical station.For Woodhaven Blvd / Queens Blvd, there is another Woodhaven Blvd in the system, but only one Queens Center. Although, if they give that complex a geographical name (like Slattery Plaza updated) then I would go with that name. Just the way I would call Grand Army Plaza what it is, rather than something like "Flatbush-Vanderbilt Avs." "Macy's" would complicate matters at a station that already has two names, 34 St, and Herald Square. I'm not sure for now whether "Herald Square" would suffice for that station. I would agree that where streets are numbered (23 St, 28 St, etc.), having the number in with the station name (or to simply be the station name) is useful to help people keep track of where they are, but where you are surrounded by names with a station right at a single and particular point of interest (such as Newkirk Plaza) I would go with that. WMATA has letters and numbers on a grid at most of its stations but street names rarely get in on the station names, similar to most cases in London and Paris. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Apr 21 11:31:25 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 11:05:25 2015. I'm all for giving Myrtle-Wyckoff a more simple name. "Ridgewood" or "Ridgewood Terminal" would simplify things there. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 12:31:29 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Apr 21 11:27:05 2015. But is there need to name a station for an intersection either? Why have the ambiguity of yet but another "Avenue U station" in the system? Station names should provide clarity in as brief a manner as possible. "Kings Plaza" would be perfect for that hypothetical station.Because the intersection is a specific point. You can't get more specific than an actual intersection. Why should the MTA advertise a private business? |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 12:34:27 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Apr 21 11:31:25 2015. Why? Why in the world would you name it "Ridgewood"? This isn't the LIRR. And it's not a "terminal", so why name it Ridgewood Terminal?Secondly, the station is more in Bushwick than Ridgewood, with the line going right through there. Furthermore. Seneca, Forest, and Fresh Pond are also all stations in Ridgewood. By that thinking, we may as well just randomly call one of them Ridgewood, "Forest Ave" being much more in the middle of the heart of Ridgewood (which would make about as little sense), than Myrtle/Wyckoff which is 3/4 in Bushwick. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 13:03:19 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by alm on Tue Apr 21 07:52:00 2015. There is no street called "Van Wyck Blvd" anymore. The senator may not be aware that the expressway was built along the route of and named after a street so named. Such knowledge is irrelevant. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 13:04:28 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by alm on Tue Apr 21 07:53:40 2015. Really? Where? |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Apr 21 13:04:51 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by merrick1 on Sun Apr 19 17:35:09 2015. According to Wikipedia, Van Wyck Boulevard was there when the station opened in 1937. When Robert Moses built the Van Wyck Expressway over the right of way in the 1950's, it was changed to Van Wyck Expressway.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briarwood_%E2%80%93_Van_Wyck_Boulevard_(IND_Queens_Boulevard_Line) |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 13:08:35 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 13:04:28 2015. Never mind, I found it. But Google street view clearly shows that's wrong:
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 13:10:31 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 11:03:31 2015. Herald Square was also named for a private business. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 13:14:40 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 13:10:31 2015. Correct, but the Square is actually called "Herald Square". If there is a Plaza at Kings Plaza Mall named "Kings Plaza", more power to them.... |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 13:23:19 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 13:14:40 2015. I'm not disagreeing, just making a factual statement. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Apr 21 13:40:20 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 13:08:35 2015. OK. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Apr 21 13:43:14 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 13:14:40 2015. Interesting how it works for highway exits. The are not usually named after businesses. But municipalities often name a street after an important business. This allows there to be highway exits named after the street instead of directly after the business. For example, there is a Bic Drive in Milford, CT, named after the Bic Pen headquarters, and a corresponding exit on I-95. Ditto, Stew Leonard Drive and Ridge Hill Blvd. in Yonkers, with a named exit on I-87. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 13:46:47 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by italianstallion on Tue Apr 21 13:43:14 2015. Yup, you are correct, and that's actually similar to the situation with Time Square and Herald Square.Note, that in the case of the Meadowbrook Pkwy in Nassau the exit for Roosevelt Field is actually called "Shopping Mall". |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Apr 21 14:03:57 2015, in response to Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by William A. Padron on Sat Apr 18 11:53:13 2015. I suppose it makes sense. But I notice that the small nameplate tiles do NOT look like genuine IND! If they could replicate the tiles when Broadway-Nassau was renamed to Fulton, they could do it here!Not pleased... |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Apr 21 14:05:51 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by William A. Padron on Sat Apr 18 12:31:05 2015. But that station really is at the Van Wyck Expressway...But there are no genuine IND tiles in play there, so I don't care that much... |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 14:15:35 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by MainR3664 on Tue Apr 21 14:05:51 2015. ?????? No genuine IND tiles in play here? The entire Name Tablets are vintage IND. If they station is renamed, they have to get rid of the Van Wyck Blvd tile tablets, as it will cause confusion otherwise. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 21 14:27:08 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 12:31:29 2015. You mean like “Barclay's Center?" |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 14:40:38 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by randyo on Tue Apr 21 14:27:08 2015. That's a stadium. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 14:42:59 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 14:40:38 2015. ....and it's called Atlantic Terminal on the LIRR. The Barclay's is a sub name on the subway, like Mets is at Willets Point or 161st St at Yankee Stadium. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 14:44:16 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by randyo on Tue Apr 21 14:27:08 2015. Does Queens Center have 18,000 people coming at once to it at any given time? |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 14:46:12 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 14:44:16 2015. Furthermore, Barclays PAID the MTA for that name there.http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/nyregion/24naming.html?_r=0 |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 21 15:46:08 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Apr 20 10:28:13 2015. re: they immediately assume I mean at Continentalnot necessarily. There are many non-regular riders of the subway, who might benefit from street information within the name and city residents from other boroughs - same for these latter, if they seldom ride to another borough, that is out of their normal daily path. So I fall on the side of naming stations with some street identification within the neighborhood. Naming a station Forest Hills or Ridgewood, doesn't really tell travelers where they are going specifically within those neighborhoods - large areas within each borough (former towns) with dozens of streets in the vicinity of the station location, so a street name in the location would be helpful (and preserve borough history). I like the way compound station names sound anyway (which has nothing to do with efficient station naming theory). I like Myrtle Wyckoff, and always liked "Broadway-Nassau." Paris has some cool ones like Denfert-Rochereau, Censier-Daubenton, etc. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 16:03:54 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 14:40:38 2015. Which is also a private business and should be no different. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 16:04:16 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 14:46:12 2015. Yes, which is the only reason why it's acceptable. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Michael549 on Tue Apr 21 16:24:44 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 21 15:46:08 2015. From a previous message:"So I fall on the side of naming stations with some street identification within the neighborhood. Naming a station Forest Hills or Ridgewood, doesn't really tell travelers where they are going specifically within those neighborhoods - large areas within each borough (former towns) with dozens of streets in the vicinity of the station location, so a street name in the location would be helpful (and preserve borough history)." I fully agree with the points taken in the above passage of text. Nor do I really have a problem with "sub-titles" like Willets Point-Shea Stadium, or 161th Street-Yankee Station, etc. Or even the World Trade Center, Hudson Terminal or Borough Hall. Those places "mean something" to me or us in general. Many of these places have long histories attached to them - making them "markers" in our lives. I do not "know" what Queens Center is! That name does not tell me where is it located, what streets it is near, etc. That is similar to the Federal Circle station on the JFK Air-Train - I still do not know what is federal about that station in the middle of parking lots. The name "Federal Circle" does not instantly bring about associations toward its "meaning". Now if Federal Circle name actually referred to a collection of major federal government offices in a centrally defined space/place where size-able numbers of people have to interact and conduct business, the meaning of the name would be clear to many. A major part of this discussion is about what places "mean", the history, their web of connections to other things, and how to "name places" so that they are familiar. "Landmarks" are not just designated buildings. Mike |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 21 16:32:11 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Michael549 on Tue Apr 21 16:24:44 2015. I don't understand your problem with "Federal Circle." If it were the name of some street entirely inside the airport property, it would be equally incomprehensible. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Apr 21 16:44:39 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 14:44:16 2015. "Does Queens Center have 18,000 people coming at once to it at any given time?"I d say close to it on Black Friday. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Apr 21 17:02:39 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by AlM on Tue Apr 21 02:05:33 2015. IIRC the last subway car order that had double bonnet destination signs (R-38?) had on the roll 6th Ave under the big F on the smaller window, long after 6th Ave was officially re-named Avenue of the Americas. Seems like nobody noticed & no one cared inasmuch no one said that the sign was wrong. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Apr 21 18:58:32 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 14:15:35 2015. The station already has small "Briarwood" tiles underneath the larger mosaic. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Apr 21 19:02:55 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 21 13:46:47 2015. The previous set of signs for Exit M2W on the Meadowbrook Parkway actually read "Roosevelt Field Shopping Mall" but were changed shortly after they were installed, leaving an obvious blank space where "Roosevelt Field" was for many years. The recently installed signs omit the space. |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Apr 21 19:03:03 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Apr 21 17:02:39 2015. And they couldn't fit "Avenue of the Americas" there if they tried! |
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Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal. |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Apr 21 19:14:16 2015, in response to Re: Briarwood Station...A Done Deal., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Apr 20 19:49:04 2015. Since all MTA subway stations are in New York City, we could name them all "New York." This would eliminate confusion and promote uniformity and consistency in naming. Once approved and implemented, we would never have to rename a subway station. Signage could be manufactured in bulk, generating economies of scale. Since the signs would all be the same, they would be very common and not very valuable, and no one would have incentive to steal them to hang in a bedroom. Bread sales would increase as tourists dropped bread crumbs behind them to find their way back to their start, and this would provide a shot in the arm for the economy. |
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