|
|
| Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' (1341996) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
[1 2] |
||
|
Page 2 of 2 |
||
|
| (1342176) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 3 14:45:32 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Tue Mar 3 14:13:56 2015. I have been told BART buys power generated by the turbines in the Altamont Pass area. Obviously unless you have a dedicated electrical path from source to use, the electrons get mixed. However, SF Muni DOES have electrical transmission lines from the Hetch Hetchy Dam hydro plant directly to SF, so in their case streetcars and ETBs are and have been running off hydro for most of a century. The PRR got hydro generated electricity for what we now call the NEC from the Conowingo (IIRC) Dam on the Susquehanna--again direct feed. As we build out more and more wind/solar we will need less fuel for electric generation. |
|
|
| (1342257) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Wed Mar 4 00:48:32 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Tue Mar 3 13:33:01 2015. Transit use of oil is an insignificant percentage of domestic oil consumption. Really the primary benefit transit derives from the U.S. Navy's sea lines of communication protection mission is that the DoD absorbs the risk insurers like Lloyds would otherwise charge to supertanker owners as their behemoths transited the Strait of Hormuz. But that argument would require you to acknowledge the US Military's role in subsiding oil prices.SEPTA's rail system and PATCO are both effectively nuclear powered outside of a few hours during which there is peak electrical demand and the coal and gas peaker plants come online. There is something like 6 Gigawatts of nuclear generating capacity effectively surrounding the Philly Metro area, which only uses around 8 GW at peak. And that's to say nothing of the dams on the Susquehanna or Three Mile Island. To a lesser extent Chicago, even with the closure of Zion NPP, still gets a significant fraction of its electricity from nuclear power. Sadly Metra and the CTA don't use much of it. |
|
|
| (1342263) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Wed Mar 4 02:57:39 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 3 13:40:52 2015. FWIW BART buys some wind generated electricityYeah, that'll umm, turn the lights on in a train. And that's about it. I wonder if they could even keep the rectifiers humming with just renewables. It would be a lot of fun to see the substation recs blow up when fed the dirty AC a wind farm produces. Power factor correction? We don't need no stinking power factor correction! In general, CA is heading for 25-30% renewables That's almost undoubtedly a nameplate capacity of 20-30%, which bears virtually no resemblance to what the grid actually sees. Wind Power provided a whopping 1.5% of the State of California's power in 2014. The state imported more dirty coal power from Nevada than it generated in wind power. Solar panels have an availability factor of somewhere between 20 and 30%, Wind only slightly better. So that "20 to 30" percent suddenly becomes 4% to 15% when averaged over time. To make matters worse, those solar panels produce almost all their power during a 4 hour midday period which does not correspond to peak demand in winter months. Since we lack an effective storage means, that energy is dumped on the grid through power purchase agreements and feed in tariffs, and completely wasted. The size of the problem is amply illustrated by San Francisco's Solar Map which proudly states that the 22.9MWdc of installed solar panels produces 31,113 MWh/yr. That's an effective capacity of 15% and we don't even know if that generated power was utilized. You're just barely halfway there in the most dense concentration of rooftop solar panels in the US. we consistently use fewer kwh/resident that all the other states Mostly because California has no heavy industry. They account for just 5.6% of US industrial electrical use, but 11% of US transportation fuel usage. Refineries run off their own waste gas, and they make up most of what California considers heavy industry. Build some electric arc furnaces, or some ore refineries and you might see your electricity use tick up. And at least here in NJ I can't say I'm particularly worried about how many kilowatts I use. The little bits of U235 at Hope Creek, Salem, and Oyster Creek weren't long for this world anyway. A couple of them likely powered my computer long enough to type this. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1342267) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Wed Mar 4 04:56:08 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Tue Mar 3 10:26:05 2015. But the fact that the network most likely wouldn't be built-out as described when it was conceived was released like a year ago. So really she isn't saying anything new. I think Jace's take is absolutely correct. They'll see where they get the most pushback on cancelling a proposed streetcar alignment, try building that using a different methodology than this foolishness, and see how that goes. Clearly streetcars can't simply be built as part of a streetscaping project. |
|
|
| (1342275) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Mar 4 08:46:39 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 3 13:05:44 2015. The government will vigorously deny that its military adventures are motivated by oil. But I guess any discussion of that would belong on the OT board. As far as paying for transit vs. private cars, don't oil-fired generators provide some of the electricity for the subways and commuter rails? |
|
|
| (1342317) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by TERRApin Station on Wed Mar 4 14:12:19 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Tue Mar 3 10:26:05 2015. Dumping the rest of it is big news. That's the issue.But that's not how you titled it in the Subject. That's the issue I brought up and for which you dismissed. Only now are you acknowledging that my point is valid. Why is that? |
|
|
| (1342318) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by TERRApin Station on Wed Mar 4 14:12:33 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by WillD on Mon Mar 2 17:40:58 2015. ...I think Terp's interpretation is the more correct one.Thank you. |
|
|
| (1342319) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by TERRApin Station on Wed Mar 4 14:13:16 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Jace on Tue Mar 3 10:47:53 2015. She didn't say the whole system will be dumped (or that H Street will be abandoned)Thank you for your support. |
|
|
| (1342333) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 4 14:34:56 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by TERRApin Station on Wed Mar 4 14:12:19 2015. I titled the subject from the News title. Don't read my intent from the way it was reporting by someone else on the web. |
|
|
| (1342336) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by TERRApin Station on Wed Mar 4 14:44:46 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 4 14:34:56 2015. If you don't agree with the headline from the article, then you SHOULD NOT use that headline as your Subject line. The Subject line is yours to choose. It is a great responsibility. Whatever you put there is assumed to come from you and be approved by you unless there is an explicit statement otherwise. Because of your choice of Subject line, all the early respondents were operating under the assumption that the whole thing would be canceled. It wasn't until I came along that that dubious position was questioned. |
|
|
| (1342339) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 4 15:03:18 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by TERRApin Station on Wed Mar 4 14:44:46 2015. You're kind of sensitive. I posted the full text of the article plus the link, so you or anyone else could know everything I knew. |
|
|
| (1342347) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 4 15:25:25 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by TERRApin Station on Wed Mar 4 14:44:46 2015. STFU. Lots of Subchatters use the article title as a message title. Stop trying to micromanage Subchat. |
|
|
| (1342348) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 4 15:26:47 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 2 14:23:34 2015. Are they Limo Libruls ?Being "Libertarians", which is liberal with another name, then absolutely. |
|
|
| (1342354) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by TERRApin Station on Wed Mar 4 15:46:40 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 4 15:03:18 2015. I do not watch Lifetime. |
|
|
| (1342355) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by TERRApin Station on Wed Mar 4 15:47:22 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 4 15:25:25 2015. GTFO. Lots of Subchatters fail at the internet, including you. But that doesn't make it ok. |
|
|
| (1342597) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Thu Mar 5 01:41:03 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Mar 4 08:46:39 2015. don't oil-fired generators provide some of the electricity for the subways and commuter rails?Not really. We don't get much of our electricity from oil fired power plants period, just 1%. Transit use of electricity is extraordinarily small, so oil consumption by electrically powered transit is virtually nonexistent. |
|
|
[1 2] |
||
|
Page 2 of 2 |
||
