|
|
| Can you spot the mistakes .... (1341645) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
| (1341645) | |
Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 17:37:36 2015 .... in this .gif showing the system as it was built over time?
|
|
|
| (1341646) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Asgard on Fri Feb 27 17:59:35 2015, in response to Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 17:37:36 2015. Hate to nitpick; but it shows the original I.R.T. going to 18th Street instead of Bronx Park. |
|
|
| (1341647) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 18:03:14 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Asgard on Fri Feb 27 17:59:35 2015. That's not a mistake, it does not include parts of the system which have since been demolished. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1341651) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Asgard on Fri Feb 27 18:07:55 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 18:03:14 2015. OK, sorry. |
|
|
| (1341652) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Feb 27 18:13:41 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 18:03:14 2015. It should though. I was going to say it doesn't show the Jamaica El going to 169 until I read your post. But I think it should show the demolished parts. |
|
|
| (1341653) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 27 18:20:52 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Feb 27 18:13:41 2015. the Jamaica el NEVAH went to 169st. |
|
|
| (1341656) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Dave on Fri Feb 27 18:40:28 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Feb 27 18:13:41 2015. You meant 168th, Sarge. |
|
|
| (1341657) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Feb 27 18:41:23 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Feb 27 18:13:41 2015. Since it simply shows the various lines on the current map in a time sequence, ending with the full current map, that would be difficult.But probably the West Farms el should be shown as initially ending at E. Tremont Av., with E. 180 St. not shown until the point in time when it opened. On the other hand, shouldn't the Dyre Ave. line be shown earlier than it is, since it did exist (as the NYWB) well before it became part of the subway system? |
|
|
| (1341658) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by jasonnyc on Fri Feb 27 18:52:25 2015, in response to Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 17:37:36 2015. The 3 doesn't go past Pennsylvania Ave in Brooklyn. |
|
|
| (1341659) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 18:52:57 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Feb 27 18:41:23 2015. It wasn't a subway line yet. |
|
|
| (1341660) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 18:54:24 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by jasonnyc on Fri Feb 27 18:52:25 2015. Wow, I missed that one, concentrating on the incorrect order of construction ... |
|
|
| (1341661) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 27 19:10:37 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 18:54:24 2015. Shows the W still going to Astoria too |
|
|
| (1341662) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Fri Feb 27 19:23:51 2015, in response to Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 17:37:36 2015. Dyre, Rockaway and Liberty avenue should open earlier, not when connected to their current lines.Fulton and Broad open way too early. Manhattan Bridge should open with Chambers J. South Ferry should appear with the east side IRT. First Visible section should only go past Crescent, not all the way to Cypress Hills Canarsie opens MUCH earlier. That is what jumps out to me... |
|
|
| (1341665) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Feb 27 19:34:17 2015, in response to Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 17:37:36 2015. The order that the Brighton line is shown in confuses me, if that is not a mistake. The Franklin Ave. shuttle is shown from the beginning, and then the Brighton line south of Church Ave., leaving a gap between Church Ave. and Prospect Park until later. Does that make any sense? Didn't the Franklin Ave. (original Brighton) line always go to Coney Island? |
|
|
| (1341666) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Fri Feb 27 19:36:23 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 18:52:57 2015. Arguably neither were the J nor S in 1885... |
|
|
| (1341667) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by renee gil on Fri Feb 27 19:42:11 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Feb 27 19:34:17 2015. yes. originally as the Brooklyn, Flatbush & Coney Island Railroad. |
|
|
| (1341670) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 27 19:44:47 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by R30A on Fri Feb 27 19:36:23 2015. However, unlike the NYW&B which was not a part of the NYCTS until city takeover, the Fkln Shuttle and J Line were a part of the actual NYCTS from the start. The same criteria would apply to the Rockaway Line since as part of the LIRR before city takeover it was not a integral part of the NYCTS either. |
|
|
| (1341671) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Fri Feb 27 19:47:20 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by randyo on Fri Feb 27 19:44:47 2015. I think the argument for the NYW&B not being part of the system is certainly one which could be made, but such is substantially harder to make for the LIRR's Rockaway line. It ran rapid transit cars much like a rapid transit line on rapid transit headways and was connected to the BRT with through service! |
|
|
| (1341672) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 27 19:47:49 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by R30A on Fri Feb 27 19:23:51 2015. As was mentioned in another post, Dyre and Rockaway were not part of any company that became integral parts of the actual NYCTS in their entirety as were the companies that formed the BMT and IRT. |
|
|
| (1341694) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 21:30:10 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by R30A on Fri Feb 27 19:23:51 2015. I don't think they should have included Dyre and Rockaway when they were built. They were separate railroads. But Liberty was shown to open in 1956, when it really opened in 1915, even before Jamaica Ave. The oddity is that they properly show the Culver el south of Ditmas opening way before the IND portion of the line. |
|
|
| (1341695) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 21:32:40 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by R30A on Fri Feb 27 19:36:23 2015. The J was at least an elevated rapid transit line. And the proper first piece of the entire system should extend from Gates Ave to Van Siclen, not ENY to Cypress Hills. |
|
|
| (1341700) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Fri Feb 27 22:15:42 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Feb 27 19:34:17 2015. I would like to hear the assumptions behind the choices. If they are using the opening of the current right of way as the standard, then they should have this order:Park Place to Prospect Park 1878 Church Avenue to Neptune Avenue 1907-08 Prospect Park to Church Avenue 1918-19 Neptune Avenue to Coney Island 1918-19 Franklin @ Fulton to Park Place 1999. And the surface portion of the West End to Coney Island Creek and the Canarsie Line segment from west of E105 to Rockaway Pkwy should predate everything else on the map. Still, an interesting work. |
|
|
| (1341703) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Fri Feb 27 22:47:10 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 21:32:40 2015. The author doesn't seem to consider the Broadway L from Marcy to Broadway Junction as original, even though the third-tracking did not amount to a complete rebuild.The Canarsie Line isn't shown until after the full 14th Street-Eastern Line is open. There's more, but I like the effort. |
|
|
| (1341704) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Fri Feb 27 22:51:20 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 21:30:10 2015. Lots of lines were separate railroads when built. |
|
|
| (1341707) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 28 01:01:16 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by R30A on Fri Feb 27 19:47:20 2015. Good point, however there was a break between the cessation of BRT service to Rockaway and the assimilation of the Rockaway Line into the NYCTS where as the other BRT lines were assimilated into the rest of the transit system continuously without a break. |
|
|
| (1341710) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 28 01:22:16 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by SLRT on Fri Feb 27 22:15:42 2015. Franklin to Park Pl is not new in 1999 but rather rebuild of the original Franklin shuttle which was actually a branch off the Fulton St El that connected to the Brighton Line. |
|
|
| (1341726) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 28 08:55:34 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by randyo on Sat Feb 28 01:22:16 2015. How much rebuild before something is a new right-of-way? That's why I want to know the assumptioñs used. |
|
|
| (1341737) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 28 09:56:49 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by randyo on Sat Feb 28 01:22:16 2015. I agree with you but I'm trying to follow the map author's logic. |
|
|
| (1341756) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Feb 28 14:58:55 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by SLRT on Fri Feb 27 22:51:20 2015. Rockaway and Dyre were railroads, not rapid transit lines. Except for the Brighton, there's little in common that the Coney Island lines have with their predecessors. |
|
|
| (1341759) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 28 15:13:37 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 28 08:55:34 2015. A rebuild in the exact same location is just that, a rebuild but a replacement of an existing line with another completely new infrastructure as was the case with the Fulton St el being replaced by a subway is not. Both the Myrtle Av el between Bway/Myrt and Wyckoff, and the Bway Bkln El are rebuilds of previously existing structures and not out and out replacements. |
|
|
| (1341805) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 28 20:24:29 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Feb 28 14:58:55 2015. The NYW&B was more like an interurban, and a very high-level one at that. The LIRR made a conscious break from its rapid transit operations, choosing not to compete in markets where it felt overwhelmed.What does the Brighton have in common with its railroad days that the other Coney Island lines do not, save for a small piece of original right-of-way? We're inventing bright lines here to justify a particular interpretation of how we got where we are. |
|
|
| (1341808) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 28 20:35:44 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by randyo on Sat Feb 28 15:13:37 2015. I agree Fulton was a complete replacement, especially since the el and the subway existing on the same route contemporaneously and under separate managements.Nut we have the fuzzier example of lines being built to shift service to a new line, such as Culver and West End. Think also of the conversion of a mid-line portion of both the Market Street el and subway-surface from elevated and surface respectively into a subway. Fixing an opening date is like the old expression: "This is my grandfather's axe. I've replaced the handle three times and the blade twice. This is my grandfather's axe." |
|
|
| (1341848) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Mar 1 11:24:20 2015, in response to Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 27 17:37:36 2015. Is there a way to control the speed of the animation? There are too nany things happening too quickly to easily compare different parts of the map. |
|
|
| (1341857) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Sun Mar 1 12:33:07 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Mar 1 11:24:20 2015. Google "pause animated gifs" for free utilities that do this. |
|
|
| (1342212) | |
Re: Can you spot the mistakes .... |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 3 17:50:49 2015, in response to Re: Can you spot the mistakes ...., posted by SLRT on Sun Mar 1 12:33:07 2015. Thanks |
|
|
