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Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 29 10:21:49 2015 Permalink Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown Union Wants a Plan to Keep New York’s Subway Running [picture] An empty platform at the 59th Street-Columbus Circle subway station in Manhattan. The York City subway system was closed late Monday for the first time for a snowstorm. Photo: Peter Foley for The Wall Street Journal By Andrew Tangel Jan. 28, 2015 8:51 p.m. ET The union representing workers who run the New York City subway joined skeptics of Monday’s decision to shut down the nation’s largest transit system before a threatened blizzard. Train operators and other employees believe they could have kept much of the system running even if this week’s snowstorm had turned out to be the historic blizzard forecasters predicted, according to Transport Workers Union Local 100 officials. John Samuelsen, the union local’s president, on Wednesday called upon the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to develop a plan that might keep at least underground portions of the subway running even if a blizzard’s snow, wind and ice hobbled service on the system’s aboveground tracks. "We don’t believe a blizzard necessitates the full shutdown of the system," Mr. Samuelsen said in an interview. Mr. Samuelsen said he planned to raise the issue with Tom Prendergast, the MTA’s chairman, this week. "There needs to be a frank conversation about whether the approach that was taken can be modified to have the system running even under the worst conditions," Mr. Samuelsen said, adding that he understood the chairman’s concerns for recommending the shutdown in light of dire forecasts. An MTA spokesman said the authority was open to considering changes to its winter plans and had already begun a thorough internal review of its response to this week’s storm The subway shutdown, which the MTA said was the first due to a snowstorm in the system’s 111-year history, has drawn widespread criticism. On Tuesday, Mr. Prendergast said he recommended a full shutdown of the system to New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo as forecasts indicated the storm could dump 2 feet of snow or more on the city, bring dangerous winds and reduce visibility. The system closed at 11 p.m. Monday before reopening the next morning after the blizzard threat fizzled. The MTA chairman cited his experience running the authority’s New York City Transit division in 2010, when a late December blizzard stranded more than 30 subway trains and 600 buses. That blizzard led the MTA to develop a new winter operations road map for severe snowstorms dubbed “Plan V.” The plan outlines how the MTA subway service would be “thinned out to accommodate the possibility of the strategic closures of outdoor line segments” in a snow emergency, but stops short of addressing a full-scale shutdown. "We don’t believe a blizzard necessitates the full shutdown…" The MTA spokesman said the plan was intended as a set of guidelines, but wasn't prescriptive. The plan outlines how the MTA would prepare for a severe snowstorm and then scale back service if trains get stranded, signals or switches fail or ice builds up on third rails, for example. Another union official said train crews expected to keep the system running. Shutting down the entire subway also made it tougher for workers who run the system’s towers, maintain signals and run trains to restart service, Mr. Samuelsen said. Some subway employees had hoped to remain at their posts even after their shifts, but the MTA sent them home, said Mr. Samuelsen, making it difficult for them to get back to work. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 29 11:39:39 2015, in response to Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 29 10:21:49 2015. It bordered on the absurd.Some shutdowns, and slowdowns would be expected, but blanket closing completely down was ridiculous. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 29 13:41:26 2015, in response to Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 29 10:21:49 2015. It’s interesting that tower were brought up since when I was a Tw/M it was SOP during snow storms to man part time towers during snow storms and periodically throw the switches to prevent build up of snow in the switch points. Of course it goes without saying that at full time towers all the switched bot those frequently used and those not normally used would also have to be thrown frequently for the same reason. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Jan 30 19:46:03 2015, in response to Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 29 10:21:49 2015. I think the issue is not as much whether trains can run underground in a blizzard-- we can all agree that such a thing is possible. The reason they wanted everything shut down is because they didn't want anyone travelling, period. Where does one go after exiting the subway? Not all buildings have an underground subway entrance like Rockefeller Center. Let's face it, a few hours of downtime wasn't such a big deal. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jan 30 22:35:22 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 29 11:39:39 2015. Right, and as it looks now many are not buying Prendegast saying he did it when reports until late Wednesday had it where Cuomo ordered it alone.I personally think Cuomo did order it, most likely if he actually did as was suggested because Cuomo didn't want to piss off Suburban riders by shutting the LIRR and Metro North but keeping the NYC Subways, even only the underground portions open looking ahead to a 2018 re-election bid for Governor (not to mention a hopeful Presidential bid). That's why I suspect it was politically motivated only to have it backfire because of so many people being PO'ed. This may have gone (as noted before) to even possibly having Democratic Party leaders going as far as to give Cuomo a verbal beat-down over the closure because of the possible ramifications for the Democrats in trying to regain the House and Senate in 2016 due to Cuomo (if it actually was him) violating Rule #1 of politics and PO'ing Wall Street and Wall Street doubling down in their likely efforts to keep the GOP in power of both legislative branches in 2016. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jan 30 22:43:31 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Jan 30 19:46:03 2015. Tell that to David Faber, who went on and on about on CNBC and would not have risked his reputation that he has on Wall Street to do that if pretty much ALL of Wall Street felt that way.As said, the political ramifications of this could go MUCH deeper than New York as since Wall Street might not be able to get back at Cuomo directly, they do it by punishing the Democrats by more heaving funding GOP candidates as the GOP hopes to maintain control of the legislative branches after 2016. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jan 31 09:21:47 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jan 30 22:43:31 2015. Wall Street is pretty much run by computers these days. No one has to commute to Wall Street to keep Wall Street open. Even if the power went out in lower Manhattan, they probably have half a dozen backup sites that can keep trading going indefinitely. Wall Street people probably care less than anyone else about commuting in a blizzard. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jan 31 09:59:37 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jan 31 09:21:47 2015. High volume traders need high speed access to the trading systems. They can't tolerate an extra second or two of delay that might come from working at home. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by j trainloco on Sat Jan 31 11:28:35 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Jan 30 19:46:03 2015. For some people, this was a very big deal. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Jan 31 14:51:16 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by j trainloco on Sat Jan 31 11:28:35 2015. Good example. And there are jobs where they MUST get there or others have to continuous shifts to cover them. 911 operators and hospital workers come readily to mind.Just saying "everything's closed, stay home" wasn't a decision. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jan 31 18:47:28 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 31 09:59:37 2015. Absolutely!!Even ONE-TENTH of a second sometimes can make ALL the difference. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by zuckie13 on Sat Jan 31 19:45:17 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jan 31 18:47:28 2015. Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh, can't game the system for a few hours. How terrible. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jan 31 21:26:51 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by SLRT on Sat Jan 31 14:51:16 2015. If someone has a job where he HAS to be there, he leaves BEFORE the storm and plans to stay there for the duration. It's no fun, but it comes with the territory. Such a person would be an irresponsible fool to expect to be able to travel during the storm or before the cleanup even if service were attempted. This business of "people who have to travel" is silly. I wouldn't want my doctor spinning his wheels in deep snow or stuck on a train without power while I was bleeding to death on an operating table. It should also be noted that if people would just chill out and stay home in adverse weather, fewer such essential workers would be needed to bail them out of trouble when they get stuck. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 31 21:34:47 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by SLRT on Sat Jan 31 14:51:16 2015. Facilities that require "essential workers" also have moderate facilities for such events. When I worked in radio and television, the FCC required a kitchen and sleeping facilities since broadcast was considered "essential facilities" in the event of a national emergency. I would imagine any of those facilities at least have cooking facilities and cots. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Jan 31 22:05:15 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jan 31 21:26:51 2015. You are pretty dismissive of other people's lives to match your belief that our idiot governor and mayor did the right thing. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by J trainloco on Sat Jan 31 22:54:25 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jan 31 21:26:51 2015. I'm curious; when did snowstorms get so "dangerous" that we cannot go out in them? It seems like with all the media hype and political bluster, everyone has gotten dragged along in this myth that snowstorms are just to dangerous to go outside in. That's patently false, and one of the reasons subway infrastructure was built was in order to facilitate travel even in winter weather. While I agree that some severe snowstorms call for the majority to stay home, that should be OPTIONAL, if a safe mode of travel can be provided. If you have the infrastructure, there's no reason you shouldn't operate it. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 1 00:30:25 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by zuckie13 on Sat Jan 31 19:45:17 2015. For some people, their jobs are that precise. Having the level of access only the Exchanges proved is crucial. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 1 00:31:16 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by SLRT on Sat Jan 31 22:05:15 2015. +1 |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 1 00:32:10 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by J trainloco on Sat Jan 31 22:54:25 2015. Exactly!! That is what the subways (underground) are DESIGNED for. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 1 00:36:27 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 31 21:34:47 2015. Yes, but the problem is, there are some people who have to be able to go home. As said elsewhere, I'm sure there are going to be some divorces that wind up being a direct result of this storm because of spouses who insist on their significant other being home at the end of they day. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 1 03:34:24 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by J trainloco on Sat Jan 31 22:54:25 2015. I'm curious; when did snowstorms get so "dangerous" that we cannot go out in them?They've always been a lot more dangerous than a nice warm sunny day. The warnings are just more drastic now. When I was 17 I drove with my friends up the Thruway to Albany and then into Vermont in the middle of the night to go skiing. We only later found out they closed the Thruway shortly after we got onto it! Nowadays they probably escort everyone off at every exit. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Feb 1 17:05:49 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jan 31 18:47:28 2015. If 1/10th of a second matters that much, it's automated trading, meaning very little human intervention needed. All that's needed is for someone to be there if a machine fail. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by Jace on Sun Feb 1 18:10:05 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 31 09:59:37 2015. Seconds? More like microseconds. In this story about high frequency trading there's also a good bit about the infrastructure of the market. From the article it seems that keeping NJT running is at least as important as the subways. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Sun Feb 1 20:25:12 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by J trainloco on Sat Jan 31 22:54:25 2015. 100%!!!!Jimmymc25 |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Feb 1 23:50:49 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by SLRT on Sat Jan 31 22:05:15 2015. The Mayor had nothing to do with this. Entirely on Cuomo. |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Mon Feb 2 07:33:11 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by J trainloco on Sat Jan 31 22:54:25 2015. agreed |
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Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Mon Feb 2 07:51:37 2015, in response to Re: Transport Union Joins Skeptics of Subway Shutdown, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jan 31 21:26:51 2015. And you're the guy who couldn't cross 31St Street to go to church without a crosswalk? Seriously??? |
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