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| Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? (1336046) | |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by JAzumah on Tue Jan 27 08:23:41 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. This does not affect Wall Street. Those people are in hotels and they are going to operate as normal today. I do think the travel ban will be withdrawn between 12pm and 3pm today. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Jan 27 08:41:16 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. No. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by The silence on Tue Jan 27 08:41:42 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. You really just need to stop.You really have no idea what's going on and are making all this up. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 27 08:50:33 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by JAzumah on Tue Jan 27 08:23:41 2015. It was withdrawn by the time you posted this. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 27 08:52:30 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by The silence on Tue Jan 27 08:41:42 2015. I think for a change Wally is on to something. Read the posts here. There is no NYCT plan for a total shutdown. I would also guess Cuomo was being a political coward. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by znufrii on Tue Jan 27 08:53:38 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. No. Next question. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 09:06:18 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 27 08:52:30 2015. Right:I don't think anyone wants to think that what was done to "keep people safe" was in reality motivated by wanting to protect a potetial Presidential bid in most likely 2020 or '24 and fearful the MTA would screw up and years from now affect that bid by having such used in advertising against Cuomo. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 27 09:10:51 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by znufrii on Tue Jan 27 08:53:38 2015. The storm turned east far more than expected.Eastern Long Island still gets 2'. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jan 27 09:28:30 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. I don't know how much this might have been motivated by national poliical situations, but I don't doubt that there is a consideration of "how much criticism will I receive for shutting the place down vs. how much for trying to keep things running and risking the bad optics of stranded motorists or trains." |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 27 09:55:12 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. Define Politics |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 10:01:31 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by SLRT on Tue Jan 27 09:28:30 2015. The buses and street bans needed to be done. Shutting down he underground portion of the subways was not, nor had it EVER been done in a snowstorm.Irene and Sandy were completely different situations because of flooding threats that were not present with this storm. I suspect Cuomo is going to be warned to never do it again unless it's a Sandy/Irene-type situation by Wall Street and key donors or face severe unintended consequences if he does it again. David Faber on CNBC blasted Cuomo earlier on this and I'm sure many more will be. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jan 27 10:11:49 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 10:01:31 2015. Additionally, as with shutting Boston down while police were searching for a single suspect in the Marathon bombing, we begin to have significant civil liberties issues in broad declarations of "all the streets, roads, highways, trains, transit are closed on penalty of law."There's a term for this: Martial Law. Where is the ACLU, that opposes even curfews in the midst of civil disorder? |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Jan 27 10:12:56 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 09:06:18 2015. Cuomo's opponents in a potential 2024 Presidential bid are going to say, "Hey, remember when he screwed up nine years ago and kept the subways open in a big snowstorm?" Do you really think most Americans (not just New Yorkers) are going to vividly remember a snowstorm from nearly a decade ago? Or half a decade ago if he runs in 2020? Come on!Now if he decides to run for President in 2016 (as in NEXT year), then you might've had a point. But since this storm dumped a lot less snow in the City than was expected (Long Island is a different story), and the MTA is resuming operations today, this probably won't have much of a negative effect on any potential Cuomo Presidential campaign, certainly not one in 2020 or 2024. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jan 27 10:13:54 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 27 09:55:12 2015. Politics is like Art. You may not be able to define it but you know it when you see it. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 10:18:36 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Jan 27 10:12:56 2015. If Hillary doesn't run, Cuomo could still run next year and I did note that.And yes, years-old stuff like this would be in 2020/'24 could have come back to haunt Cuomo if he had not shut down and something happened. That's how cutthroat politics are. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by pragmatist on Tue Jan 27 10:19:45 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by SLRT on Tue Jan 27 10:11:49 2015. There was no curfew, you were allowed to go out and walk. Not the same thing from a legal standpoint. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Allan on Tue Jan 27 10:21:32 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. Tell ya what - forward your feelings to the print media and let them work on it.The NY Post would love to have this. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by pragmatist on Tue Jan 27 10:26:56 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Jan 27 10:12:56 2015. One of his possible opponents Krispy Kreme did the same thing in NJ. Maybe we just over analyze all this stuff because we have too much time on our hands. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Jan 27 10:33:49 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 27 08:52:30 2015. Not if he were to run for President in 2020 or 2024. 2016, maybe, and only if his decisions during this snowstorm resulted in having adverse effects on a significant amount of people. Political coward? Ehh, given some of losers we've already got in Congress who are contemplating Presidential bids next year, Cuomo could probably hold his own against them. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Jan 27 10:47:05 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 27 08:52:30 2015. Everything politicians do is to some extent political. Another factor may be overconfidence in the ability of people to predict the weather. One reason these pre-emptive shutdowns didn't occur in past decades is because it was taken for granted that the course of such storms was unpredictable. It seems they are really no more predictable than they used to be, but people (including government officials) THINK they are, and act on that belief.I hope no one got in trouble for violating the ban on non-emergency vehicles on the streets. At least it was lifted at 7:30 AM, otherwise lots of people would have ignored it. I do find it disturbing that any official should have the power to order such a ban. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 27 10:50:52 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. There are a couple of stories stating the decision was Cuomo's and that he did not alert the MTA prior to making it public.Link 1 Link 2 What's ignored is recent disaster experience both here and elsewhere. The inordinate amount of resources required to rescue people who ignore warnings to evacuate or hunker down. Think Katrina in New Orleans to Sandy in the Rockaways. The subways could operate on a modified schedule, avoiding exposed lines. What would happen should a few "ordinary" incidents occur that require passenger rescue? Snow covered roads would delay a rapid deployment of rescue vehicles filled with rescue personnel. After disaster scenarios are evaluated, the reluctant conclusion is that it's wiser to have people dispersed in their homes and wait for the streets to be plowed. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Jan 27 10:51:17 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 10:18:36 2015. Yes, if he hadn't shut it down and tons of people got stranded on trains or suffered injury or death. But he took precautions and anyone who gives him hell over that is just being petty. And we have a lot of that in politics too - most unfortunately. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Jan 27 10:54:25 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by pragmatist on Tue Jan 27 10:26:56 2015. The blabber mouths on the cable news channels and talk radio certainly have too much time on their hands. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by pragmatist on Tue Jan 27 10:55:25 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Jan 27 10:47:05 2015. Disturbing though it may be, it has been done many times before, just not in our area. Erie County did it a few weeks ago, plus the state closed that stretch of Thruway. As long as they allow walking, and don't try full curfews, they are on pretty firm legal grounds. Even curfews have been upheld in limited application. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 11:00:08 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 27 10:50:52 2015. This never was a problem before 2010, even in 2006 which was the record.Keep the underground portion open and everything was fine. David Faber once again BLASTED Cuomo (second time this morning) on CNBC on the subway closure. I suspec Cuomo may be facing a lot more blowback than he ever anticipated by this. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 11:23:25 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Jan 27 10:51:17 2015. Tell that to David Faber, who TWICE this morning on CNBC BLASTED Cuomo over this and I'm sure he's not the only one. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 27 11:25:46 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 11:00:08 2015. Keep the underground portion open and everything was fine.What happens at the journey's end? Non-emergency vehicle traffic was banned to assist with snow removal and emergency response. Only surface transportation was on foot. The forecast was for 50 mph winds combined with temperatures in the lower 20's. Those are life threatening conditions unless people are properly dressed. There wasn't a run on arctic clothing. Walkers would have been killed from exposure, as they were during the Blizzard of 1888. It would be negligent for authorities to provide only partial transportation under such conditions. Consider some ordinary underground incidents. What about a broken rails, derailments, smoke conditions, broken water mains, power failures, etc. The ability of emergency services to respond in a timely would be compromised by the snow. I was at a party Sunday evening. The approaching blizzard was being discussed. Some government employees were looking forward to a day off. Another who worked in a hospital made arrangements to sleep over at a friends house that was close to where she worked. The early warning gave people time to plan. Those who had to work on site made made sleeping arrangments. Those who were not deemed essential, suffered that insult at home. Life would continue the day after. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Jan 27 11:34:14 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. No. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 11:40:45 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 27 11:25:46 2015. That may be true, but again, we had worse storms that even what was forecast and the subways operated just fine.Yes, the winds were a factor, and you do bring up valid points. That said, we again had other storms where the subways operated just fine even when the snow was equal to or greater than what was forecast. This clearly was blowback for 2010 and the fear of that in my view and potential for use of it in attack ads by rivals against Cuomo if he runs for President in 2020 or '24 was why Cuomo ordered the shutdown, only now likely facing WAY more blowback than he EVER anticipated. As said, I think Cuomo is going to be warned by Wall Street if he tries this again outside of a Sandy/Irene situation, he could face a ton of unintended consequences and I suspect major firms are now looking at what legal action they could take against the Governor even in a state of emergency to block a full shutdown. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Tue Jan 27 11:51:29 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Jan 27 11:34:14 2015. +1 |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by GOlD_12tH on Tue Jan 27 11:56:11 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. Walt Gekko, stfu |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jan 27 11:57:35 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Jan 27 11:34:14 2015. That's a confident response. Might further evidence alter your opinion? |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 12:26:05 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 09:06:18 2015. Wrong. It was done in a misguided attempt to keep everyone safe to make him self look good for caring and leading. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 12:28:59 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?Sure, but not for the reasons YOU think. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 12:57:09 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 12:28:59 2015. All I'll say is David Faber, who is VERY highly respected in Wall Street circles TWICE this morning BLASTED Cuomo to the high heavens over this and he was apparently speaking for a lot of people on Wall Street who were none too pleased. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Jan 27 13:18:12 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. Is someone from WMATA now working for the Cuomo Administration? :) |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 13:22:02 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 12:57:09 2015. What does that have to do with lawsuits from international firms??? NOTHING. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 13:22:26 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 12:57:09 2015. Why are you surprised that someone would be mad at Cuomo? No one wanted this except for Cuomo. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Jan 27 14:15:21 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by GOlD_12tH on Tue Jan 27 11:56:11 2015. Yep, once I saw a post about run |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Jan 27 14:17:41 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by GOlD_12tH on Tue Jan 27 11:56:11 2015. Yep, once I saw a post about running a W train from Whitehall St to Rockaway Park coupled with rerouting the D to 95th St, Bay Ridge, by "Walt Gekko" on Second Ave Sagas, I knew who it really was. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Jan 27 14:22:42 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 12:57:09 2015. Well, that's their problem. Sorry, but the world doesn't exist just to please them. They have to exist in this world together and if people need to be kept off the roads and the buses and trains so they don't jeopardize their safety, so be it. If it means one day's loss of trading, those are the breaks.I really hope David Faber didn't act that way on 9/11. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jan 27 14:32:41 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by pragmatist on Tue Jan 27 10:26:56 2015. The difference between NJ and NY is that most of NJ’s rail transit is above ground and exposed to the elements unlike the NYC subway system which has a significant portion underground and protected. As I mentioned in another post on this topic, the plan 4 as operated in the 1960s when I was on the road called for extra service to be operated on the open portions of the system overnight to prevent or at least minimize snow accumulation. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Jan 27 14:58:57 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Jan 27 14:22:42 2015. Keeping people off the trains jeopardizes their safety. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by Ray jules on Tue Jan 27 14:59:18 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 27 08:52:30 2015. Agreed |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by j trainloco on Tue Jan 27 15:54:47 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 27 11:25:46 2015. What happens at the journey's end? Non-emergency vehicle traffic was banned to assist with snow removal and emergency response.Only surface transportation was on foot. What happened in 2010? Or 2006? Or 2003? People found a way to get home from their subway station. The forecast was for 50 mph winds combined with temperatures in the lower 20's. Those are life threatening conditions unless people are properly dressed. There wasn't a run on arctic clothing. Walkers would have been killed from exposure, as they were during the Blizzard of 1888. It would be negligent for authorities to provide only partial transportation under such conditions. This comment is nonsensical. Anecdotal stories are surfacing suggesting that people walked for hours to reach their destinations. NBC reported that a man said he was going to walk from midtown, across the Williamsburg bridge, to Bushwick. One of my coworkers made a trip from queens to lower Manhattan, mostly on foot. Consider some ordinary underground incidents. What about a broken rails, derailments, smoke conditions, broken water mains, power failures, etc. The ability of emergency services to respond in a timely would be compromised by the snow. Ostensibly, having clear roads would have mitigated this. It wasn't a problem in 2010, 2006 or 2003, when there was no driving ban. The early warning gave people time to plan. Those who had to work on site made made sleeping arrangments. Those who were not deemed essential, suffered that insult at home. Life would continue the day after. What early warning? There was zero indication that subway service would be curtailed until 4pm, far too late for anyone working a 4-12 shift to alter their plans. In fact, midday indications from MTA were that service would, as it had ever other time, continue throughout the storm. The fact remains that, with the exception of a few incidents that occurred in 2010 (which can be attributed to a lack of execution), the subway has demonstrated an exceptional ability to provide some kind of mobility for those who do not have the option of skipping out on work when a storm hits. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by j trainloco on Tue Jan 27 16:15:23 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. I see quite a few responses of "no, not political", and general skepticism, but it seems to me that even a casual observer can look at the facts and see that this was a decision heavily influenced by politics. For one, while the MTA developed plans for commuter railroad service that called for progressively reducing service until a full shutdown was in effect, no such plan existed for NYCT; in fact the plan targeted specific trouble spots, and focused resources on these areas. The plan was clearly to keep trains going, throughout the storm, and that was being officially announced as late as noon. Second, Cuomo has demonstrated that he makes decisions independent of his own experts, and seemingly to promote himself. The LIRR negotiations are one example (Cuomo stepping in at the last hour and "brokering" a deal) but a better one was his decision to quarantine anyone coming from a country with an Ebola outbreak, a decision that went against the recommendations of the medical community at large. Cuomo is a politician, first, last and always, and his actions often appear to be an attempt to project the image of strong leadership. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 27 16:17:24 2015, in response to Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 27 07:55:48 2015. you don't understand politics.Even Cuomo knows a white male has little chance of winning a primary in the DNC. Even less being Italian-American and Catholic and from NYC. The energy that drives the Dems is anti-White male. "First black President". "First female President". That's where the Dems are. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by TrAiN DuDe on Tue Jan 27 16:34:38 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by randyo on Tue Jan 27 14:32:41 2015. That didn't work out at Aqueduct on the "A" Line in 2010. One manager advised a senior manager that even with de-icers, rail polishers and road service, the line was being lost. The senior manager didn't listen and one train was caught in the snow without power for several hours in consequence. Sometimes nature wins. |
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Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated? |
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Posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Tue Jan 27 17:56:49 2015, in response to Re: Could the NYC Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?, posted by TrAiN DuDe on Tue Jan 27 16:34:38 2015. Exactly.........That's why I'm looking at MREs right now at work........ |
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