POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters (1326031) | |
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(1326031) | |
POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 29 19:34:45 2014 Farebeating costs $436 million a year? Think of what could be saved by installing barriers.The Local
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Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Nov 29 20:03:27 2014, in response to POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 29 19:34:45 2014. So your solution is to have law enforcement more involved in fare collection? Police state advocate!And you of course know how many billions of Euros it'd cost to equip even a minority of DB's platforms with fare gates, right you ignorant fool? |
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Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 29 20:48:42 2014, in response to POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 29 19:34:45 2014. Would it cost $436M to add sufficient staff to reduce dodging losses to zero ? If so, there is still no positive impact to the bottom line. It would cost $436M to collect $436M. |
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Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 29 20:50:38 2014, in response to Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters, posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 29 20:48:42 2014. Yes; breaking even is the best case scenario. Assuming that's all the losses incurred. |
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Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Nov 29 20:57:32 2014, in response to Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters, posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 29 20:48:42 2014. There might however be a way of reducing losses by $200 million with additional expenses of $100 million. |
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(1326075) | |
Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 30 08:05:23 2014, in response to POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 29 19:34:45 2014. Told you so! |
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(1326085) | |
Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 30 09:25:01 2014, in response to Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 29 20:50:38 2014. If you break even, why bother ?If incremental revenue exceeds incremental cost, then do it. |
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(1326216) | |
Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Dec 1 05:42:50 2014, in response to POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 29 19:34:45 2014. How do you get from "it's not perfect" and "it may be possible to make improvements" to "the entire thing is irreparably broken, justifying a massive fortune being spent to replace the system wholesale?" |
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Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters |
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Posted by Transitbuff on Mon Dec 1 15:04:59 2014, in response to Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters, posted by WillD on Sat Nov 29 20:03:27 2014. Their syatem is fahr-kakt! |
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Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters |
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Posted by Transitbuff on Mon Dec 1 15:05:13 2014, in response to Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters, posted by WillD on Sat Nov 29 20:03:27 2014. Their system is fahr-kakt! |
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(1326318) | |
Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters |
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Posted by WillD on Mon Dec 1 16:31:33 2014, in response to Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters, posted by Nilet on Mon Dec 1 05:42:50 2014. Because he's the Ignorant Ideo-Olog, that's how. |
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(1358044) | |
POP doesn't work in Germany: Fines rise from €40 to €60 in select cities, enforcement increases |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 30 15:47:37 2015, in response to POP doesn't work in Germany: States push for higher fines for farebeaters, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 29 19:34:45 2014. The Local (with Deutsche Press-Agentur)Then dump the POP system. It's clearly costing more money. |
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(1358062) | |
RE: POP doesn't work in Germany: Fines rise from €40 to €60 in select cities, enforcement increases |
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Posted by fdtutf on Tue Jun 30 17:01:09 2015, in response to POP doesn't work in Germany: Fines rise from €40 to €60 in select cities, enforcement increases, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 30 15:47:37 2015. Those fines are pretty cheap. In Stockholm the current fine for traveling without a valid ticket is SEK 1,200, which is USD 144.64 at today's exchange rate (says Google). (Stockholm also doesn't have POP on most of its lines. It sounds to me as if the fines in Germany need to be raised significantly for POP to work.) |
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(1358063) | |
Re: POP works in Germany: Fines rise from €40 to €60 in select cities, enforcement increases |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Jun 30 17:04:21 2015, in response to POP doesn't work in Germany: Fines rise from €40 to €60 in select cities, enforcement increases, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 30 15:47:37 2015. Your conclusion does not follow from the article. How does an increase in fines for non-payment mean the POP system is not working? The Euro is way down, almost equal in value to the dollar, so it's much more likely that fines set 5 to 8 years ago aren't as effective at deterring fare evasion as they are now. Raising the fine brings back the deterrent. That's true for all fare collection strategies, be they barrier, conductor collected, or proof of payment. |
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Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: Fines rise from €40 to €60 in select cities, enforcement increases |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 30 18:02:13 2015, in response to Re: POP works in Germany: Fines rise from €40 to €60 in select cities, enforcement increases, posted by WillD on Tue Jun 30 17:04:21 2015. How does an increase in fines for non-payment mean the POP system is not working?You may not realize it, but you answered your own question. But then again, you're a statist, so increasing the punishment means increasing the good for the State, rather like O'Brien from 1984. |
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Re: POP works in Germany: Fines rise from €40 to €60 in select cities, enforcement increases |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Jun 30 18:27:00 2015, in response to Re: POP doesn't work in Germany: Fines rise from €40 to €60 in select cities, enforcement increases, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 30 18:02:13 2015. You may not realize it, but you answered your own question.It may answer that question if you're an ignorant royalist out of touch with reality. But for everyone else it doesn't, just as your conclusion does not follow from the article. Nowhere in the article does it say anything about POP not working, and fdtutf was kind enough to point out just how low Germany's fines for non-payment are. You're the one making the claim POP does not work, without any evidence to support your claim. But then again, you're a statist, so increasing the punishment means increasing the good for the State, So it's your claim that no enforcement is necessary to get passengers to pay with either a barrier or conductor collected fare arrangement? Everyone is so thrilled to hand their money over that there's never anyone arrested or fined on an NJT train or at a NYCT fare gate, right? You're the biggest statist on this board, yet somehow you make the completely counterfactual claim that POP results in any more "statist" a society than any other fare collection method. |
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