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| Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... (1324534) | |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 27 02:37:09 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by italianstallion on Fri Nov 21 16:54:27 2014. Billions of dollars for a freight only tunnel.Y Ugh huh. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 02:42:19 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 27 02:36:27 2014. Actually, hate to say it, but there really is a need for that. Freight to New York City from "America" has been jeopardized by all the oil train traffic along the Hudson lately. As a result, it can take weeks for freight to get across the river right now between all the CSX traffic as well as increased traffic on Metro North's Hudson line to get things across as it is now.You certainly wouldn't want commuters incinerated if an oil train goes off the rails, and once the Saudi attack on oil prices ends and things go back to the way they were in a couple of years, diverting that freight will be a God send to the city and Long Island. It really will be worth it. Where things REALLY went off the rails was when Christie killed the additional tunnels into NYP. We really need to keep freight and commuter separated for the safety of all and yet we really need to eliminate the trip through Selkirk as well. Once things return to full traffic again up here, things will be hurting down there once our domestic oil supply drops as a result of all this and gas prices go past $6.00 and diesel goes past $10 in a few years. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 27 02:55:42 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 02:42:19 2014. Frankly for the billions involved much as I support rail, I might be just as happy building solar farms and doing massive conservation upgrades rather than easing fossil transport.I favor both a cross harbor route AND a rail bridge in the Tappan Zee area. And as to capacity on existing rail routes, there is the coming Panama Canal expansion. When that opens the likelihood is the bigger conainer ships which currentlyy off load on the West Coast to land bridge then reload for trans-Atlantic final delivery will just skip straight through. If that is true our friendly RRs will be looking for freight to move. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Dec 27 02:59:28 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 02:42:19 2014. How can the Selkirk Bridge be that full? The line going west to Boston isn't that heavily used. And the line south to Poughkeepsie has hardly any freights at all.I thought the oil gets unloaded to ships/barges in Albany. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 03:11:27 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 27 02:55:42 2014. I would normally agree, but it's quite obvious given the way politics is replacing science for technical solutions that we really need to have a more direct route between NYC and it's suburbs to "America". One thing we learned upstate after the Bakken and Canadian crude coming through here to refineries along the coast is that oil trains get the ONLY priority. Everything else hits the sidings and rots until a slot for them opens up SOMEWHERE. :(Add to that that the ONLY route out of Selkirk which will get trains down to NYC are either the Hudson line, or send them east to Springfield and then down to New Haven and hope that the MTA will piss off commuters by slipping a freight or two in front of a local. Not happening either. The West Hudson route is crammed with trains. There really doesn't seem to be any other solution other than putting NYC's freight onto dirigibles and sadly the Empire State Building dirigible port has been closed down for many years now. :) Since I live up here in America, I really shouldn't worry myself about NYC's needs, but then again since I was born and raised down there, I'm still concerned for their future once the Saudis win their "gas war." Now that we're shutting down everything here because there's not enough profit for the Ferenghi, when things dry up and the Saudi's win, folks will totally flip when they see the prices oil will be going for once this gas war is done. :( |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 03:13:13 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 03:11:27 2014. We really DO need to build it while we can still afford to build it. Before the crash. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 03:21:31 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by AlM on Sat Dec 27 02:59:28 2014. Many of those trains head south on the West Shore line down to Jersey now. Prince Andrew pretty much shut down the operation at the port of Albany. The port operation has now moved down to near Newburgh for now, but a lot of those trains continue on into New Jersey and south.]Right now, things are quieting down as the shippers and refiners are all full up. What I'm concerned about is when the price of oil gets back above what it was and suddenly all those wellheads get reopened down the road. Don't mind me, I'm a future thinker. The real bottleneck for the city is the interconnect with the Hudson line. Right now, things are quieting down a bit and freight is moving. When this all comes back though, the price of oil will be so high that we will want to get even more than we were domestically and we already saturated track capacity up until a month or so ago. There will be more demand for commuter trains and capacity which will mean less track space for freight down the road. The future is my concern here. We really DO need to think about increasing commuter capacity west of the city, and we also need to increase freight capacity as well. And I hope that both will be done separately while we have an economy right now to finance that construction before we really need it. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 03:46:32 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 03:21:31 2014. I mean ... I mean ... if you listen to all the political BS, you guys are our welfare check up here and if NYC is abandoned, we're screwed. Can't let THAT run dry now, can we? LOL |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 27 13:56:54 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 03:11:27 2014. Cheap first step; rebuild the West Shore to double track (can't imagine it was single track before Perlman) which should involve zero ROW acquisition. Even in boxcar times that was the freight route to NYC area warehouses in NJ. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Dec 27 14:04:05 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 27 13:56:54 2014. Exactly. Not totally cheap because the tunnels ceilings have to be chiseled out more - right now the single track through the tunnels goes down the center and accommodates double stacks.And on the east side of the Hudson there are plenty of places where an extra track has been previously removed and could be restored. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 14:10:32 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by AlM on Sat Dec 27 14:04:05 2014. Anything that ups the capacity is good. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 14:11:00 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 27 13:56:54 2014. Then again, CSX opening up their wallet and spending money. Good one! :) |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Dec 27 14:11:33 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 03:46:32 2014. Hah! I knew that was the REAL reason! :-)On a serious note, how much can those 2 float bridges handle in Brooklyn? Would increasing capacity there help? |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 14:13:22 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by 3-9 on Sat Dec 27 14:11:33 2014. Car floats were always a slow, laborious process. Not sure of how big a barge they use, but back in the day you were lucky to get 15 boxcars across each trip. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Dec 27 14:28:11 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 14:13:22 2014. How many trips can each float bridge handle per day? This is assuming the chokepoint isn't on land (the tracks and facilities beyond the bridges), which should be relatively easy to alleviate. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 14:48:42 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by 3-9 on Sat Dec 27 14:28:11 2014. Don't know for sure, but this video and the ones to the right in the list HERE will give you an idea of how slow and tedious it all is: |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Harbor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 27 15:07:27 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 03:21:31 2014. Certainly correct that while we "have" the funds we should be building. (we always have the funds; the question is whether the bribers and the MIC are on board with the spending. One might remember that ConJob was originally funded to guarantee rail service to auto and other plants without the actual customers having to pay) Could also restore the Poughkeepsie Bridge probably faster than engineer a new one. Need to get the trucks to be shorter haul delivery vehicles. This is exactly opposite to the major RRs recent moves to build container dumping centers from which to let the trucks do the last hundred or so miles. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 27 15:12:47 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 14:11:00 2014. NYS (and others) need to rewrite thje real estate tax laws to penalize low speed and low capacity trackage--ie pay a extra for single track and less than FRA certified for 60MPH freights. We know CSX is tax skittish. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Harbor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 15:27:33 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Harbor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 27 15:07:27 2014. The Poughkeepsie bridge really isn't useful any longer for railroad. That was actually part of the New Haven, not NYC and the west end went to a yard that no longer exists and was replaced by houses. Same for the other side. From that height, the work required to connect up to the routes below it, as well as having to buy back all that residential land would be prohibitive.And as to Gonerail, that funding was nowhere near enough before it went away so it could be cut up and sold for pennies to the big operators. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Harbor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 27 15:44:12 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Harbor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 15:27:33 2014. take your point on the bridge. As to ConJob, Jervis Langdon had submitted a consultant report to the Bankruptcy judge showing that 80% of the tonnage of PC ran on 20% of the routes. Conrail was created to obstruct that wholesale amputation, but post Staggers it happened anyway. It took another 2 decades to undo the mistake of PC and the C&O cowardice that first prevented NYC/C&O/B&O in the 60s and then let E-L go into Conrail instead of Chessie. One of the benefits of Erie's original wide guage is said to have been better clearances on its mainlines. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Harbor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 19:34:53 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Harbor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 27 15:44:12 2014. Yep. But of course some of our "friends" here really believe that government caused the fire. Lulz |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Dec 28 06:12:06 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 14:48:42 2014. Based on the videos, it takes 5-10 min to offload a barge. The downside is, the barge only holds 6-8 cars. :-SOne of the commenters claimed that in its heyday the dock could handle a thousand cars a day. Maybe an exaggeration, but still, the 2 float bridges should be able to handle a couple of hundred at least. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Dec 28 06:17:37 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 27 15:12:47 2014. Won't that just mean the railroads will dump even more tracks? |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Dec 28 14:09:24 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by 3-9 on Sun Dec 28 06:17:37 2014. Perhaps I was insufficiently precise. My thought is in effect punish them for low capacity, rewardthem for increased capacity/track speed. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Dec 29 21:45:24 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Dec 28 14:09:24 2014. No, I pretty much understood what you said. The problem is that if a track is borderline profitable but low capacity by your standards, it may cause the railroad to drop the line rather than pay the penalty, thus making the line unprofitable. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 30 01:07:59 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by 3-9 on Mon Dec 29 21:45:24 2014. In my ever so authoritarian view, the rail line if no longer desired by the current owner defaults to the state and becomes available for "open access" None of the 7 class 1s want open access anywhere anytime, thus it is a good cudgel for the people through their government to weild. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Dec 30 06:21:08 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 30 01:07:59 2014. So the catchall for the plan would be something like a freight version of Amtrak, which would consist of lines that were dropped by the other railroads but still deemed profitable? Won't it be a pain to manage what may turn out to be a hodgepodge of different lines? |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Dec 31 15:34:46 2014, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 27 02:42:19 2014. What about the idea someone here proposed to run 1 or 2 direct trains from Greenville to Fresh Pond via Selkirk at night? No disassembly/assembly at Selkirk. How long would that take hypothetically and would it be possible? |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Jan 14 22:51:29 2015, in response to NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Gold_12th on Thu Nov 20 10:49:46 2014. Interesting. One thing nobody had the subject correctly. The correct name is NY-NJ Cross HARBOR Freight Tunnel!!!!! |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by gOlD_12tH on Wed Jan 14 23:27:43 2015, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Jan 14 22:51:29 2015. congratulations, wadl guy! you just notice that. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Thu Jan 15 00:08:22 2015, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by gOlD_12tH on Wed Jan 14 23:27:43 2015. *noticed |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Thu Jan 15 00:09:18 2015, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Jan 14 22:51:29 2015. STFU moron. English does not appear to be Gold_12th's native language and he seems to not give enough of a damn to do anything about it. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 15 00:46:26 2015, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Jan 14 22:51:29 2015. He just typed in a Boston accent! |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 15 01:36:25 2015, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Jan 14 22:51:29 2015. No, there was a correction early on.http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1325391 |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by gOlD_12tH on Thu Jan 15 08:33:34 2015, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Thu Jan 15 00:09:18 2015. fuck you, Brian. haha |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Thu Jan 15 09:14:00 2015, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by gOlD_12tH on Thu Jan 15 08:33:34 2015. I was defending your dumb foreign ass. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Thu Jan 15 09:14:56 2015, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 15 01:36:25 2015. OWNED!!!!!! |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by gOlD_12tH on Thu Jan 15 09:26:29 2015, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by TERRApin Station on Thu Jan 15 09:14:00 2015. Fuck you bastard. |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Thu Jan 15 09:32:10 2015, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by gOlD_12tH on Thu Jan 15 09:26:29 2015. I'd like to see you try! |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by gOlD_12tH on Thu Jan 15 10:14:42 2015, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by TERRApin Station on Thu Jan 15 09:32:10 2015. fuck you |
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Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern... |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Jan 26 09:58:55 2015, in response to Re: NY-NJ Cross Habor Freight Tunnel: November 2014 study release; Lots of people concern..., posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 27 02:37:09 2014. There is one thing that is wrong: There is no Habor, the word is Harbor. |
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