Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) (1318572) | |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Nov 1 09:21:15 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sat Nov 1 06:57:55 2014. blue&cream colored tiles. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by northshore on Sat Nov 1 09:22:50 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sat Nov 1 06:57:55 2014. I was on a train once when it stopped there in service, and I recall it having a dark red band and the typical IND lettering "WOODHAVEN". |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by northshore on Sat Nov 1 09:22:51 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sat Nov 1 06:57:55 2014. I was on a train once when it stopped there in service, and I recall it having a dark red band and the typical IND lettering "WOODHAVEN". |
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(1321898) | |
Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 09:49:35 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by Express Rider on Sat Nov 1 09:19:02 2014. Amazingly, over the years, that is the only known photo I have ever seen of it. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 09:50:31 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by northshore on Sat Nov 1 09:22:51 2014. It's amazing how few photos of it exist. The only one I have ever seen is the one on Joe Brennan's site. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by northshore on Sat Nov 1 09:58:50 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 09:49:35 2014. Woodhaven was a very dimly lit station with minimal incandescent bulbs. It was probably difficult to photograph. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 10:33:44 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by northshore on Sat Nov 1 09:58:50 2014. This may be true, but so were stations like 91st St, 18th St, etc dimly lit with incandescent bulbs, but plenty of photos, both historic and current are all over the internet. |
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(1321908) | |
Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by northshore on Sat Nov 1 11:32:12 2014, in response to Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by Mitch45 on Thu Oct 30 13:34:16 2014. Why doesn't the ERA NY Chapter make arrangements with the MTA LIRR to sponsor a fan tour of Woodhaven Station? |
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(1321914) | |
Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Nov 1 14:04:38 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by northshore on Sat Nov 1 11:32:12 2014. Either that, or we will have to start a campaign to reopen it permanently. They are, after all, talking about reopening a LIRR station in Elmhurst. Such an idea is much more practical than many other ideas that have been floated around these parts. |
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(1321921) | |
Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Nov 1 14:29:39 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by northshore on Sat Nov 1 09:58:50 2014. But at some point it looks like fluorescent lights were added to it, based on the RFW view of the abandoned station. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 14:32:25 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Nov 1 14:04:38 2014. This is true, but then again, would the stats on potential usage back up a need to do so? Again, it would still be an LIRR station if it reopened, and I don't know how much demand for it there would be there at the cost and train frequency it would provide. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 14:34:44 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by 3-9 on Sat Nov 1 14:29:39 2014. Yes, I have noticed that too. There's definitely fluorescent lighting in the station, but don't know if it was added when they were redoing tunnel lighting, or if it was there at the end.The other photo showing it when it was still open shows it with incandescent bulbs, but don't know how old that photo is. Those two photos are the only known photos I have ever seen of the station....the older one when it was open showing the stairway, and the railfan view on the same page. Anyone ever see any other photos? |
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(1321924) | |
Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Nov 1 14:37:21 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sat Nov 1 07:14:33 2014. I think it would be worth reopening if the Atlantic branch went to Manhattan or if it was made part of a larger subway line. As it stands now though, it would take a big neighborhood drive, assuming the people even remember it's there. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Nov 1 15:02:26 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 14:32:25 2014. If at least a stub end of the subway reached up that far it would be a convenient way to get to Aqueduct from the eastern part of Long Island instead of sitting in seemingly interminable airport traffic on the Belt Parkway. It could be a shuttle between Woodhaven and Howard Beach. But then again, if they ever get a casino in Nassau or Suffolk that would be less of a consideration. |
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(1321930) | |
Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 16:13:21 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Nov 1 15:02:26 2014. If the Rockaway line reopened as a subway, the underground Woodhaven station would be a great thing to be reopened, with a nice new Rockaway Line Woodhaven station above it.Without that, I dont see the station reopening. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 16:15:26 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by 3-9 on Sat Nov 1 14:37:21 2014. Yes, that's basically what I just said too. It would be great to reopen if the Rockway line was opened as a subway line with a station there. It's amazing the possibilities, and it's still inconcevable that the line was left to rot since 1962. A great rail line, grade separated, and screaming for subway conversion was right there, and they left it rot. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by northshore on Sat Nov 1 16:15:59 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by 3-9 on Sat Nov 1 14:29:39 2014. I saw it in 1972 and it did not have fluorescent lighting then. It must have been added later. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 16:21:49 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by northshore on Sat Nov 1 16:15:59 2014. When did it close, 1976? The photo clearly shows it, but it must have been added way at the end of it's life.This is the only known photo of the station, other than the one below it which is older, and did not have the lighting. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 1 19:36:18 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 09:49:35 2014. Many a time in the 1960's, my mother would take me down there on a Sunday visit, bought a ticket from the agent, whose office was imbedded in the wall (living in Woodhaven back then) to Grandma's in Cedarhurst.About 5 minutes before it would come, the MP54 headlight would SLOWLY start to glow as it came around the bend from ENY, then get brighter and brighter until it was like an alien space ship as it entered the station because you could see NOTHING but that bright headlight. It was fun watching that MP54 act like a subway train and screech to a halt. Then off we went. About a block east was a coffee shop restaurant with a stuffed swordfish hung up on an interior wall. I think it was called "The Shell Restaurant". |
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(1321947) | |
Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 1 19:43:37 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 16:15:26 2014. What my mother used to call the "franchise train" ceased operation in 1962. They had already downsized to one train per day, single track.I think they should have downsized further so as to preserve the franchise: de-electrify and run an RS1 and 2 P54 coaches from Hunterspoint to Ozone Park. Had they kept that up all these years, Airtrain might never have happened, or at least they'd have an active rail line today, and the NIMBY's would be impotent. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sat Nov 1 19:58:48 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 1 19:43:37 2014. Amazing how they had their direct route to the airport from midtown right there be allowed it to rot.... |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by northshore on Sat Nov 1 21:29:56 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 1 19:36:18 2014. I am surprised there was a ticket agent on duty, especially on a Sunday. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Sat Nov 1 22:34:50 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 09:49:35 2014. The station was open from 1942 to 1976, a period of 34 years. No one took photos? Very strange. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Sat Nov 1 22:38:16 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sat Nov 1 19:58:48 2014. I think its because Robert Moses was still in power in 1962 and emphasis was placed on cars and not mass transit. Having gone to school in the area in the mid-1970's, I can tell you that the line between the Whitepot Underjump and the Yellowstone Boulevard overpass was already in very bad shape even then. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Sat Nov 1 22:42:17 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 14:32:25 2014. It was closed for low usage and to speed service on the line in 1976. Unless something has changed, the usage today probably would not justify the cost of renovation. It will remain a curio. |
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Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Nov 2 01:07:18 2014, in response to Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station, posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sat Nov 1 06:55:58 2014. OK, so now you're not just an autistic child, you're a boring autistic manchild who has nothing to say except drooling copypasta.I might just need to dust off the CAPTCHA again... |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Nov 2 01:07:41 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 16:15:26 2014. Even if the Rockaway line is reopened as a subway...dunno. Everyone wants a faster way into Manhattan or at least to a desirable destination. The Atlantic branch only goes to downtown Brooklyn, and it would need fairly frequent service (~15 min intervals), maybe even free transfers, to prevent people from just getting on the A train to downtown Bklyn. |
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Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Nov 2 01:07:59 2014, in response to Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station, posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sat Nov 1 07:22:34 2014. Selkirk is laughing at you and has been this whole time, but you're not self-aware enough to notice. He doesn't specifically call you out for your childish antics, so you think you "get along fine." |
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(1321971) | |
Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Nov 2 01:41:19 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 16:21:49 2014. There may have been another picture, but I think it was mostly of the train, not the station.The second picture above looks like it was taken when the station was relatively new. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Nov 2 04:24:11 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Oct 31 15:33:21 2014. Really? Ozone Park and Woodhaven didn't seem to have a decent mezzanine for it. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Nov 2 04:33:17 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by Mitch45 on Sat Nov 1 22:38:16 2014. The line was already falling apart in the 50s. |
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Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Nov 2 04:35:35 2014, in response to Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station, posted by Nilet on Sun Nov 2 01:07:18 2014. Lol!!!! Freak. |
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Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Nov 2 04:36:27 2014, in response to Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station, posted by Nilet on Sun Nov 2 01:07:59 2014. No....I know what he's doing. We've had fun doing that with each other for years. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Nov 2 04:38:24 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by 3-9 on Sun Nov 2 01:41:19 2014. I never even saw one with a train. Its bizzare how few exist. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Nov 2 05:02:58 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Nov 2 04:38:24 2014. As someone else pointed out, guess no one felt they were up to taking such a low light picture. |
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Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Nov 2 08:19:40 2014, in response to Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Nov 2 04:36:27 2014. OK, so why do you act like a child around me? |
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Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Nov 2 08:19:43 2014, in response to Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Nov 2 04:35:35 2014. Due to your bot-like behaviour, I'm going to need to verify that you're actually human before I continue.Please type the text you see in this image: |
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(1321992) | |
Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by sloth on Sun Nov 2 08:33:52 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by Mitch45 on Sat Nov 1 22:42:17 2014. It comes down to the fare. Who wouldn't want a 15-minute trip to Atlantic Terminal and connections to most subway trunk lines, over the Q24 and the J/Z? But if the service costs 2-3x what the bus and subway do? No thanks. |
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Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station |
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Posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sun Nov 2 09:27:12 2014, in response to Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station, posted by Nilet on Sun Nov 2 08:19:40 2014. Lol at you! |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 2 10:19:53 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by sloth on Sun Nov 2 08:33:52 2014. 15 minutes to the IRT, 5 minutes transfer time, then 10 minutes to Wall Street area is pretty competitive with the A or J schlep.Once 2023 comes around, the service will be converted to rapid transit style shuttles from Platform F at Jamaica, possible accepting Metrocard. That's the thing to plan for. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 2 10:26:37 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by Mitch45 on Sat Nov 1 22:34:50 2014. It was a rather boring, IND-ish station.Who has ever taken a picture of Woodhaven Blvd-Slattery Plaza ? Robert Moses was in favor of converting the Rockaway Line to the subway, but NOT the Queens IND. I think his ulterior motive was to throw the Rockaways a bone and abandon the line up to Whitepot. The MTA stupidly allowed the 3rd Ave and Myrtle Ave els to be replaced by buses. They would have been no more sympathetic to the RBB in 1962 had the MTA existed then, and still in 2014 seems psychologically opposed to it. The LIRR was trying to kill as many station in Queens as they could get away with right through the 1980's. |
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(1322013) | |
Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Nov 2 12:06:44 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 2 10:26:37 2014. "It was a rather boring, IND-ish station."i object, your honor. the fact that it looks like no other lirr station makes it interesting. the fact that it's a commuter railroad station that looks like a subway station makes it interesting. the fact that it has only one entrance/egress point per platform makes it interesting. the fact that it's on the shortest lirr branch, staton count-wise, makes it interesting. the fact that it's the only fully intact abandoned lirr station makes it interesting. the fact that at one time you could exit there and transfer to an elevated lirr station and head to either the atlantic ocean or the middle of the greatest city in the (known) universe makes it interesting. finally, the fact that it served woodhaven, queens, once considered a suburb which has since been absorbed by the city around it...makes it interesting. i rest my case. |
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(1322015) | |
Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 2 12:12:40 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by ntrainride on Sun Nov 2 12:06:44 2014. Well, way back then, you must have been in the silent minority, or God had not put you on earth in time ! |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Nov 2 13:07:02 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 2 12:12:40 2014. laughing out loud. naagh, that was just standard railfan p.o. v. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Nov 2 16:00:18 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Nov 1 09:49:35 2014. Yea, not even urban explorer photos of it, you would think someone would walk there from ENY station in the middle of the night to take photos of the station, there's no service on the branch on the overnight hours anyway. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Nov 2 16:07:27 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by Express Rider on Sat Nov 1 09:19:02 2014. Yes, finally a RFW video of the Flatbush Ave Branch! |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Nov 2 18:55:41 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Nov 2 16:00:18 2014. In case anyone gets any ideas, just because the line has no overnight revenue service doesn't necessarily mean that no equipment or work trains use it-- walking there along the tracks is very risky at any time, and it is, after all, a straightaway where maximum speeds are quite high. I'll settle for the few glimpses I've had from the front car of an M-3. |
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Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Nov 2 19:39:16 2014, in response to Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station, posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sun Nov 2 09:27:12 2014. Due to your bot-like behaviour, I'm going to need to verify that you're actually human before I continue.Please type the text you see in this image: |
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(1322068) | |
Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Nov 2 20:10:57 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Nov 2 18:55:41 2014. From watching the RFW video posted elsewhere in this thread, the tunnel has a catwalk, if you walk on that and use common sense you should be fine, even if a deadhead came barreling though. |
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Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station) |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Nov 2 20:25:05 2014, in response to Re: Woodhaven Underground Station (Re: How To Get Into Ozone Park LIRR Station), posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Nov 2 20:10:57 2014. Uhhh, it's still probably not a smart thing to do. I'd be happy to merely gain access to Woodhaven station. I remember a cousin who lived in Richmond Hill telling me he and some friends went down there a few times, sometime in the `70's. Haven't been around the area for years, is there any trace of the stairway entrance left? |
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