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| Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night (1319996) | |
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| (1319996) | |
Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by heypaul on Wed Oct 22 08:02:10 2014 I'm surprised no one posted this story here, as it has drawn considerable media attention. The musician plays lullabies on his guitar regularly late nights at the Metropolitan Ave (G) station for guests who are awaiting the arrival of G trains, which at that hour run every 39 minutes. Word of his sweet, gentle playing has spread and several local insomniacs camp out in the station and claim that they get a really good night's sleep.Busker Busted |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Oct 22 11:28:34 2014, in response to Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by heypaul on Wed Oct 22 08:02:10 2014. Good. Mosy of those so-called musicians are annoying. |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fel Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by Hart Bus on Wed Oct 22 12:14:27 2014, in response to Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by heypaul on Wed Oct 22 08:02:10 2014. Why are they called "Buskers" ? I will gladly state I am un-hip and have always been that way for 64 years! |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by Ray Jules on Wed Oct 22 12:30:40 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Oct 22 11:28:34 2014. Would you like it if you were arrested for something legal, like train photography? |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fel Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by heypaul on Wed Oct 22 14:14:32 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fel Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by Hart Bus on Wed Oct 22 12:14:27 2014. Well, it's not a hipster word. It seems that there was an organ grinder, Emilio Buskeri, back in the 1880's who with his chimp Bingo performed in the Lower East Side of New York City. He was well loved and his signature song was "That's Amore".If you find that explanation suspect, try here. |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fel Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by Hart Bus on Wed Oct 22 14:24:52 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fel Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by heypaul on Wed Oct 22 14:14:32 2014. Thanks Mr. K for that info. |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by chud1 on Wed Oct 22 14:43:43 2014, in response to Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by heypaul on Wed Oct 22 08:02:10 2014. what da NYPD did is totally uncalled for.Chud1. :(.... |
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| (1320062) | |
Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 22 15:10:12 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by chud1 on Wed Oct 22 14:43:43 2014. The officer in question was clearly upset due to the musical merriment maker's outright refusal heed his commands.That's the Real Reason why he was arrested. |
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| (1320063) | |
Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by The Silence on Wed Oct 22 15:10:37 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by chud1 on Wed Oct 22 14:43:43 2014. State law trumps the MTA's rules.We can pull that trick with cameras because there is no law against it. here, well, there is. |
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| (1320066) | |
Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Oct 22 15:49:19 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Wed Oct 22 11:28:34 2014. Cops making up non existent laws are a way more serious issue than the minor annoyance of ugly music. |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 22 15:49:47 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by The Silence on Wed Oct 22 15:10:37 2014. However, state law cannot infringe on the US Constitution's 1st Amendment guarantee of free speech which includes musical performance! |
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| (1320068) | |
Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 22 15:51:03 2014, in response to Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by heypaul on Wed Oct 22 08:02:10 2014. Time to sue the NYPD and the officer individually and severally in FEDERAL court for violation of the busker's civil rights |
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| (1320069) | |
Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Oct 22 15:52:45 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 22 15:49:47 2014. Correct. But, as others have said, the cop had the pervasive job related defect--insistence on obedience no matter how fake the so called law. |
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| (1320077) | |
Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by steamdriven on Wed Oct 22 16:27:05 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Oct 22 15:52:45 2014. I wonder if this is related to:A: Lowering of hiring standards for all new cops, done for multiple political reasons. Thus some treat the job as bully-with-a-badge. or B: Cops don't want to arrest anyone doing actual crimes who may have a protest/shakedown parade behind them, resulting in the cop being skinned and hung out to dry. Thus they go after non-criminals or C: Cops are concerned that arresting actual criminals will net someone from DiBlasio's inner circle, resulting in the cop being skinned and hung out to dry. Thus they go after non-criminals. |
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| (1320078) | |
Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Oct 22 16:31:43 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 22 15:10:12 2014. I say he was arrested b/c the cops upstairs on the mezzanine in the transit bureau district office were annoyed and distracted with the noise coming thru the door. |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by Hart Bus on Wed Oct 22 17:38:25 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by steamdriven on Wed Oct 22 16:27:05 2014. "Thus some treat the job as bully-with-a-badge." So what else is new? Sadly its an old story that never changes because of the "blue wall of silence", don't rat on your brother.I have had a tax client for many years who was a high-school guidance counselor until he retired. Part of his job was to guide kids colleges or career paths. He said that he would ask the tough kids and bullies what they wanted to do, some of them said cops. He once asked a student why, the response was "so I can beat up people and get away with it". Seems nothing has changed. Do these guys get psych tests before and during their time on the force????? |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by chud1 on Wed Oct 22 18:43:55 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 22 15:49:47 2014. IAWTP!chud1. :).... |
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| (1320114) | |
Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by BusMgr on Wed Oct 22 19:25:50 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by The Silence on Wed Oct 22 15:10:37 2014. The state statute reads as follows:A person is guilty of loitering when he: * * * 6. Loiters or remains in any transportation facility, unless specifically authorized to do so, for the purpose of soliciting or engaging in any business, trade or commercial transactions involving the sale of merchandise or services, or for the purpose of entertaining persons by singing, dancing or playing any musical instrument * * * . Loitering is a violation. N.Y. Penal Law § 240.35. The NYCTA and MaBSTOA rules read as follows: Except as expressly permitted in this subdivision, no person shall engage in any nontransit uses upon any facility or conveyance. Nontransit uses are noncommercial activities that are not directly related to the use of a facility or conveyance for transportation. The following nontransit uses are permitted by the Authority, provided they do not impede transit activities and they are conducted in accordance with these rules: * * * artistic performances, including the acceptance of donations * * * . 21 NYCRR § 1050.6(c). Any person who is observed by a New York City police officer to be violating any of these rules and who may receive or has received a notice of violation therefore is subject to ejection from the facilities. 21 NYCRR § 1050.11. So state law would characterize Mr. Kalleen's conduct as loitering, which is a violation, unless this persons was "specifically authorized to [loiter]." Strictly read, the NYCTA rule permits persons to engage in certain non-transit use, but does not directly permit such persons to loiter in pursuit of such permitted non-transit use. So it was not that Mr. Kalleen was engaging in unlawful activity by singing and playing his guitar, but rather he was loitering, and while loitering he happened to be singing and playing his guitar. I think the City's argument is weak. In order to engage in the permitted non-transit use of artistic performance and accepting donations, it is necessary to loiter. Therefore, the NYCTA rule implicitly authorized Mr. Kalleen to loiter. Moreover, the prosecution would have to show that Mr. Kalleen was loitering or remaining in the station for the purpose of entertaining, but Mr. Kalleen might well be also to show that he was loitering or remaining in the station for the purpose of waiting for a train (which, at that hour, does not operate frequently) and just entertained while waiting. This is not an issue of state law "trumping" MTA rules. The state law does not apply if the loitering is "authorized," and it seems clear to me that the NYCTA rule intended to authorize such loitering. This is a stupid case that ends up (1) costing the taxpayers to make a settlement, and (2) causes disrespect by the citizenry of its police force. Dumb all around. |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Oct 22 23:10:42 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by Hart Bus on Wed Oct 22 17:38:25 2014. re: He said that he would ask the tough kids and bullies what they wanted to do, some of them said copsThat was what was depicted in the novel and movie, Clockwork Orange. Two of the three thugs in the beginning of the movie grew up a few years and became cops - and were still thugs. I've heard about these kinds of responses before. Sadly, these guys should not become police officers. |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by The Silence on Fri Oct 24 22:39:21 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 22 15:49:47 2014. You really don't understand how free speech works if you believe that.The law can restrict "speech" all over the place. No one has absolute freedom of speech. So if someone gets on your train and starts strumming something like, say, "Kill all the Jews..." or "Rape all women...", some thing obviously inflammatory, and a cop did nothing because "He has freedom of speech", would you still be singing the same tune? What most people don't realize is that anything in the first amendment can be over ridden if it is neutral and unbiased. For example, the government has the right to shut down a church, lock the doors and turn everyone away.... if the building does not meet safety standards. The government can not interferer with a religion, but it can tell it what to do. Every Church, Mosque, Synagogue and Temple must meet building codes, because the prerogative of the government to protect life, limb and property is greater. The government can even dictate what can be said on the pulpit. example, a priest can't endorse a political candidate during their homily. If they do, the church can lose it's tax exempt status. The priest, as a person, can have his personal political opinions, but he can't mix them with his duties as priest. |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 25 14:42:49 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by The Silence on Fri Oct 24 22:39:21 2014. I agree that certain so called "free speech" can be limited, but I doubt that a busker singing on a subway platform can be equated with "shouting "fire" in a crowded movie theater." Also, what is interesting is that actually certain "inflammatory" speech can be allowed on the principle that the US Constitution protects unpopular speech as well as popular speech. |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by The silence on Sat Oct 25 15:01:05 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by randyo on Sat Oct 25 14:42:49 2014. You said state law can't overrule his right to free speech. That 's a rather specific statement... |
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Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 25 20:23:24 2014, in response to Re: Buskers Protest Arrest of Fellow Musician Who Was Busking at Metropolitan Ave(G) Last Friday Night, posted by The silence on Sat Oct 25 15:01:05 2014. Since the right to free speech is guaranteed by the FEDERAL Constitution, I believe the specificity is appropriate. |
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