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| RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? (1312482) | |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sat Sep 13 03:39:21 2014, in response to RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Express Rider on Sat Sep 13 02:51:34 2014. :( |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 13 07:33:25 2014, in response to RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Express Rider on Sat Sep 13 02:51:34 2014. You don't. I least you get polarized glass. The PATH assholes won't even give you that, and they don't need a full width cab because they will never have OPTO, and the conductor's station is out in the open in a non-cab end of the car. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Sep 13 09:02:57 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 13 07:33:25 2014. After spending some time in Japan again, I've come to appreciate their solution to the problem: There is an anti-glare coating on the windshield to reduce the reflection, the larger window has a blind that is to be closed only at night and in tunnels, and the right side window is polarized but I wouldn't believe it if it wasn't for the fact that you cannot see the driver's position (far left) while looking through it. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Sep 13 10:56:30 2014, in response to RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Express Rider on Sat Sep 13 02:51:34 2014. Take pictures? Look out the side window on outdoor lines on 75FT cars? You know the southern states have railfans where the only passenger trains are a handful of Amtrak trains and the rest are Freights, NYC railfans are spoiled. Just be glad you was able to enjoy a RFW while it was around.I'm a 90s baby and I was always had fun riding 44s, 46s and 68s when I was a kid, I actually thought the 44 A trains were cooler than the 32s C trains when I was a kid. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Sep 13 11:01:38 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Sep 13 09:02:57 2014. They would never put that setup on a American train, T/O's/Engineers are not gonna like people watching them operate and someone, somewhere would argue that its a safety hazard cause terrorist can see how an train is operated. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Sep 13 11:01:50 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 13 07:33:25 2014. What is the reason for using the polarized glass? Are they deliberately trying to obscure the view? If it is simply an anti-glare measure, wouldn't both windows be polarized in the same direction, and wouldn't that mean there would be no distortion? Actually, I'm not sure why polarization should cause that distortion at all, rather than simply reduce the overall amount of light that is transmitted. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Sep 13 14:25:43 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Sep 13 11:01:38 2014. Baltimore and LA metros have an RFW on the side opposite the operator as do WMATA and SEPTA Broad St cars even though those windows are tinted. Chicago also has RFWs both in the cab door and the opposite bulkhead although the one on the cab door has some sort of metal screening on the inside probably to protect the T/O. SEPTA di show some sort of railfan friendliness by having only a corner cab for the T/O and a closed circuit TV set up to allow for OPTO which seems to work quite well. Actually since the T/O never has to leave his.her seat to open the doors on either side, the dwell time is reduced over what it is when the T/O has to get out of the seat to operate the doors even on the off side. Unfortunately, what passes for new car engineering on the NYCTA doesn't seem interested in using state of the art equipment on its newest rolling stock. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Sep 13 14:29:44 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Sep 13 11:01:50 2014. I don't think that polarization is an accurate description of the way those windows are set up. The desired effect is that light passes through only straight on and not to the side, thus eliminating glare on the T/O's vision glass. Even with true polarization, some light would still be visible from the sides. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sat Sep 13 15:29:39 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by randyo on Sat Sep 13 14:25:43 2014. los angeles has blocked the view so you cannot see into the cab |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Sep 13 17:32:35 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Sep 13 11:01:38 2014. ... and someone, somewhere would argue that its a safety hazard cause terrorist can see how an train is operated.And those people can fuck right off. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Sep 13 17:33:29 2014, in response to RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Express Rider on Sat Sep 13 02:51:34 2014. Best way to railfan = someplace else. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sat Sep 13 20:57:03 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by randyo on Sat Sep 13 14:29:44 2014. Thanks for the explanation/distinction.I just used the word polarized since that's the only word I could come up with for the distortion effect on the lights and signals. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sat Sep 13 21:00:21 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Sep 13 10:56:30 2014. Oh, I'm glad alright, just that the RFW is an active and compelling and self-educational (read: fun/enlightening) way to understand the vast system we've got here in NY. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by The ORION Kid on Sat Sep 13 21:05:18 2014, in response to RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Express Rider on Sat Sep 13 02:51:34 2014. What the hell is the big deal with the RFW? Maybe I don't get it since I'm not an old timer here, but the foamer kids even fight each other over it like we see on the nostalgia trips and rare R32 runs on the (A) or (R).There's more to life and railfanning than the stupid ass window. MTA was very nice to give you the polarized glass or whatever in the front of the new trains, perhaps you'd rather have something like PATH where there's no RFW anymore. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 13 22:06:30 2014, in response to RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Express Rider on Sat Sep 13 02:51:34 2014. Easy.. grab a seat relax...enjoy the ride. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by SubwaySurf on Sat Sep 13 22:07:43 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by The ORION Kid on Sat Sep 13 21:05:18 2014. +1 |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Sep 13 22:35:28 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by randyo on Sat Sep 13 14:25:43 2014. Miami as well, as the have identical cars as Baltimore (and no tinting) :)Alas, those Budd cars will be replaced in the next few years, we'll see what those will have. Kinda hard to tell in this rendering  Article that accompanied the above pic |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sat Sep 13 23:47:25 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by The ORION Kid on Sat Sep 13 21:05:18 2014. I'm sixty four, and me and a lot of other people who became rail fans(whether on this board or not) were very lucky to have the front end of the train designed with a storm door window we could look out of. We began looking out the front window decades ago, seeing the signals, tracks, lights and infrastructure, and we were all simply fascinated, and became passionate about learning everything we could about the transit system. A number of railfans even went to work for the TA (yeah, I know acronyms have changed, but this is short-hand). So, that's why people are disheartened, becuase you can't see out the front window anymore. More to life and railfanning than the RFW? Well, because of the RFW, in the last few years of it being available (redbirds, R40's, etc.) I was able to view the signals and realize that there were various distances between each block (spaced far apart, evenly, or close together) depending on the potential traffic load. Was able to figure out some interesting things about the signal configuration in the IND dogleg in Queens for example. I'm sure other railfans have discovered other things about the subway's construction and signalling due to the RFW as well. As far as "foamer kids" fighting for the front window, if that's all you've ever viewed, then you don't realize what the front window meant to railfans from 1908 (deckroofers, first to have'em) onwards. Looking out the subway's front window, has also figured in the plot of movies, short stories and novels. And kid's'll be kids, yeah acting "out of hand" sometimes..... My feeling is, for the most part, I've looked out the front window mostly all over, so let someone younger have a gander for his/her first time. Actually one reason I asked this question, to begin the thread, is that there are no RFW's in the London Underground, and yet they have managed to have an active subway railfan community over there, so I wondered if /or how it could be approached over here. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Sep 14 15:21:24 2014, in response to RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Express Rider on Sat Sep 13 02:51:34 2014. So, how does one railfan on the TA without an RFW?I grew up with Metropolitan stock on the E & F in the 1980s, so the entire idea of not seeing out front isn't foreign to me. Hell, I've been on a number of foreign systems where that's been the case, and it hasn't been the end of the world. There's always the beautiful whine of AC traction, that feeling of acceleration when the train takes off, the view out of the window, and the aesthetics of the rolling stock and stations, so railfanning isn't just all about the view out front unless you're signal geek*. Go out there and explore other systems, as there's a big wide world outside of NYC! And if you really want a railfan view, go ride a ZPTO system like SkyTrain or Docklands Light Rail! *Plus, I collect RFID cards from my travels. :-) |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Sep 14 18:30:59 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Sep 14 15:21:24 2014. Someday I will :) Right now a bit out of my budget to travel. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Mon Sep 15 11:36:47 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 13 07:33:25 2014. There's a reason for that all-steel cab door. It's for our protection. I enjoyed the RFW like everybody else but I'd rather have a strong steel cab door to protect me instead of a large-size window on my cab door that any nut can break or shoot through. Just my 2 pesos.Vader |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 15 13:25:36 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Lord Vader on Mon Sep 15 11:36:47 2014. How many nuts break or shoot through cab door windows? |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 15 13:27:01 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Express Rider on Sat Sep 13 23:47:25 2014. You don't need to explain yourself. All the non-trolls/morons here knew exactly what you were talking about and why you brought it up. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 15 13:29:10 2014, in response to RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Express Rider on Sat Sep 13 02:51:34 2014. As others said, you railfan somewhere else, if you have the means/time. Or just do it a lot less frequently than you would if there were RFWs. You can: take photos to record history, watch transit operations from publicly accessible locations, etc. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Sep 15 14:14:27 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Express Rider on Sun Sep 14 18:30:59 2014. Someday I will :) Right now a bit out of my budget to travel.Well, Europe off peak can be as low as $800, and you can get decent hotels for $100 night, but I cheated on my last two trip by staying at mom's friend's house, and using frequent flier miles gained from milking credit cards for points. So I can understand why you're concerned about budgets. Hell, even I'm considering a second job to start accelerating saving up for the next trip. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 15 17:40:24 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Lord Vader on Mon Sep 15 11:36:47 2014. Any glass can always be mad bullet proof and break proof, in some cases even stronger that the metal. Also the previous PATH cars had window on the off side of the car which the PA5s lack. It wouldn't compromise the safety of the engineer if there were an offside window. Also if I recall, isn't there a window in the off side panel of the cab door anyhow? |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Sep 15 18:46:18 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Sep 14 15:21:24 2014. While I agree that the "rail-fan-window" and its demise is not the "end of the world!" (There's a few bars that I have to go to, before I get to that one! Smile)It is just another passing on of an era, like the subway token, or the Darth Vader buses, etc. One difference between the "old days" and the present is the Internet. The various web-sites on transit issues, and resources are a god-send. When I started "rail-fanning" in high school, the internet did not exist. One had to ride the subways to the various parts of the city and take notes. I also did research in the libraries to learn about transit history and operations. I took trips out to Brooklyn & Queens at the front of the train to see that tracks and stations. I read the subway maps closely to form ideas about what was "out-there", and to see if I was right. The Transit Exhibit opened while I was in college, which added a whole new level of transit fandom for me. Now rail-fans of the subways now have various web-sites on the internet, forums of like-minded folk to share information, web-sites like NYCSubway.Org, and others that provide much information. There are even books and websites with track maps of the various lines, something that I had to do my hand, available for purchase. Some folks even provide videos from the front of the trains on their web-sites. There are even computer stimulation games one can play. The rail-fan-window may have met its demise (for me a sad event), but like so many other things in life, if you live long enough you can explain it to your grand-kids. Mike (PS - There is a bar at the "End Of The World", it is the last one on the journey - but you had to see the movie.) |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 15 19:22:36 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Lord Vader on Mon Sep 15 11:36:47 2014. A nut can also bust your cab side window from the platform. There is in fact a useless window on the left side of the cab. They can bust that too.Let's just admit it, PATH did it to piss us off just like they have a rule against picture taking, which someone with deep pockets can get declared unconstitutional. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Sep 15 22:34:39 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by The ORION Kid on Sat Sep 13 21:05:18 2014. My reason: the window is a glimpse into the world of operating the train. You passively learn about the signal system, track layout and other neat things just by standing there. If you have an engineering-oriented mind, it is simply interesting to watch.That said, fighting over it is dumb, and if there is anyone under 12 who looks like they want the window I will step away and take a seat. I've spent the last few weeks in Japan. I will tell you, there are a hell of a lot more railfans, and a hell of a lot more railfan windows. Every 3 or 4 stops you will see someone taking a picture of the front of the train. Railroad crossings as well. Maybe that happens here in NY as well, but I wouldn't know, because there is no window to stand at to see this happen... |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Thu Sep 18 01:54:02 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 15 13:25:36 2014. Nowadays, one never knows.Vader |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Thu Sep 18 02:00:42 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 15 17:40:24 2014. It's small but another panel door can be closed on the off-section of the cab. That's what passengers usually see mid-train. Where the off-side window was on the old PA fleet is now circuit breakers on the PA 5. Good feature that I like about the PA5 is the cab door is hinged similar to the R62s and R21s. That's how we get our transverse cab. So if anybody tried to kick in a cab door, it would just swing in and lock small cab style and impossible to get into without a key. Great safety feature if you ask me.Vader |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Thu Sep 18 02:08:30 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 15 19:22:36 2014. Think what you want. We're discussing inside the train, not outside. Of course there's still the vulnerability of the side cab windows. BTW the left cab window is not useless, conductor controls are there. There are times when a conductor does need to operate from a cab but it's extremely rare. Picture taking rules was that way since the H&M era. If you want to take photos so badly, just apply for a permit. We have to do the same, so it's no biggie. To finish this off, trains are designed for moving passengers and goods, not to satisfy over-zealous railfans.Vader |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Sep 18 18:47:24 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Lord Vader on Thu Sep 18 02:08:30 2014. If you want to take photos so badly, just apply for a permit.Except that's an exercise in futility, as has been well established. |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Thu Sep 18 21:22:05 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Nilet on Thu Sep 18 18:47:24 2014. I appreciate you posting the link so that I could see what you went through. I feel bad about the whole experience you went through. It's now 7 years later so likely those higher-ups are not around anymore. If you want to, give it another shot. Just pick the time frame from 930AM to 330PM. These are off-peak hours during the week so you may this time just luck out. And I'd suggest the same to anybody else. Hey, if they deny you, at least you tried. Gripe about it and then doing it illegally just asks for problems.Vader |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Sep 18 21:34:34 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Lord Vader on Thu Sep 18 21:22:05 2014. I see no reason to assume attempting the process would yield a different outcome, and I don't have the time to waste nowadays— in 2006, I had just started college so I had plenty of time to spend on lengthy fights with no guarantee of victory. These days, I just dispense with the permit and take pics anyway. It's not like it's actually illegal.Unfortunately, I didn't get an HD camcorder before the railfan windows went away and my 480p recording of the Journal Square to Newark run just looks sad on my giant monitor. :( |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Thu Sep 18 21:57:48 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Nilet on Thu Sep 18 21:34:34 2014. But at least you got something. Just be careful out there Amigo.Vader |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Sep 19 13:53:48 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Lord Vader on Thu Sep 18 02:08:30 2014. To finish this off, trains are designed for moving passengers and goods, not to satisfy over-zealous railfans.Huh? The layout of the PA-1/2/3/4 cars (which included both a RFW and a RFsideW+seat) was vastly superior for moving passengers than the new layout! |
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Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Sep 19 13:54:42 2014, in response to Re: RFW Demise, So How is Best Way to RF Without One?, posted by Lord Vader on Thu Sep 18 01:54:02 2014. Huh? I'm asking how many do! You know, how many recorded incidents are there? What's the rate per year? Per hour of operations? Per revenue mile? |
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