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| Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue (1304491) | |
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| (1305121) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by jayjaytrain on Thu Jul 31 14:43:50 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by pragmatist on Thu Jul 31 10:25:05 2014. Yeah, but at least the R46s worked alot better after GOH. Plus I heard that recently their MDBF is getting better. |
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| (1305164) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by chud1 on Thu Jul 31 16:43:24 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by jayjaytrain on Thu Jul 31 14:38:26 2014. glad u liked it jayjaytrain, lol!chud. :).... |
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| (1305186) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 31 17:44:50 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by jayjaytrain on Wed Jul 30 20:16:59 2014. Gracias, Merci. |
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| (1305194) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 31 17:54:00 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by pragmatist on Thu Jul 31 10:25:05 2014. What was wrong with the R46's Rockwell truck, was it badly made, or just too heavy a car for that truck ? |
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| (1305214) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by pragmatist on Thu Jul 31 19:05:03 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 31 17:54:00 2014. Good point. Maybe both.Clearly, the General Steel type didn't exhibit the same problems post retrofit. Who would bear responsibility for the selection of a component that may have been suitable in a different application? Did the agency specs call for that type ( or cause a builder to lean that way) or did a builder make a poor choice that an agency went along with, or were they just not up to what they were promised to be? It goes back to something designed and approved almost 40 years ago, I can't give an answer with any real degree of certainty. |
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| (1305221) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 31 20:21:12 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 31 17:54:00 2014. Third reality ... they were designed for railroad cars operating on fairly reasonable track. NYCT's track is horrible for that kind of truck. |
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| (1305222) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by merrick1 on Thu Jul 31 20:24:01 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by jayjaytrain on Wed Jul 30 19:52:14 2014. St Louis built the R44s which have gone to an early grave. Pullman built the R46s which had plenty of problems but seem to be doing OK now. Budd built the SPV's which were junk from day one. |
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| (1305224) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Thu Jul 31 20:29:09 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 31 20:21:12 2014. Rockwell's argument that the NYCT's roadbed was to blame since it is/was mostly concrete rather than ballast. |
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| (1305230) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 31 20:46:25 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Thu Jul 31 20:29:09 2014. I did read that many years ago ... "not enough flex" ... the same trucks worked out famously for Amtrak, so probably was something to their argument. |
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| (1305231) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by pragmatist on Thu Jul 31 20:47:31 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by merrick1 on Thu Jul 31 20:24:01 2014. But both St Louis and Budd also had some successes. If an agency chooses a design that is not suitable for its purposes, or makes poor choices in its specs, that would not necessarily be "on" the builder.Workmanship and poor execution of a design if valid certainly would be. |
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| (1305493) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 1 20:22:27 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 31 20:46:25 2014. Which Amtrak fleet has the truck you are referring to ? |
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| (1305497) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 1 20:44:30 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 1 20:22:27 2014. Maybe he's thinking Horizon, I think those are outboard bearing trucks. |
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| (1305500) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by Jace on Fri Aug 1 21:00:19 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 31 17:54:00 2014. Lots of big mistakes on the Rockwells. The R46 trucks were an extension of an inside frame design already in use (I don't remember which cars, maybe BART). Rockwell didn't beef up the structure enough when going to an outside frame design, didn't do any long term service testing on the TA's rough track prior to the R46s and then had lots of issues with voids in the castings. Then there were problems with the primary springs being too soft, causing the trip cock out to move out of tolerance (the primaries were rubber collars around the bearings). They switched to a stiffer spring to keep the trip cock from moving but that started putting a lot more shock into the trucks. They probably would have had to replace the trucks anyway, the stiffer springs only accelerated the process.You can see why the R110 program came about after the R44 and R46 disasters. No more unproven technology, heavy duty trucks that went through extensive testing, lots of quality control and design review on new car projects. Catching microcracks on the R179s is not good news but it's much better to do this now then after the fleet is in service. This shows the process in place is working as intended. |
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| (1305537) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 2 07:20:45 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 1 20:44:30 2014. The same truck is on the Superliner-II, ex-Metroliner acb car, Viewliners, various California cars.So a mini version on that truck was under the R46 ? |
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| (1305538) | |
Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 2 07:23:17 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by Jace on Fri Aug 1 21:00:19 2014. That is also why David Gunn wanted R62 and R68's to be R36/R32 clones: no more high-tech crap. |
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| (1305555) | |
Re: Riders on C train will have to wait longer for new Subway cars |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 2 11:17:05 2014, in response to Re: Riders on C train will have to wait longer for new Subway cars, posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 30 19:07:57 2014. Not as I recall but the R-38s ran on the A line and ran outside a good portion of their travels. |
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| (1305560) | |
Re: Riders on C train will have to wait longer for new Subway cars |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 2 12:15:09 2014, in response to Re: Riders on C train will have to wait longer for new Subway cars, posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 30 19:07:06 2014. When "Joe V" calls you STUPID, you really must be a loser! |
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| (1305565) | |
Re: Riders on C train will have to wait longer for new Subway cars |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 2 12:22:47 2014, in response to Re: Riders on C train will have to wait longer for new Subway cars, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 2 12:15:09 2014. Hold on there, I never, ever called Train Dude "stupid". |
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| (1305574) | |
Re: Riders on C train will have to wait longer for new Subway cars |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 2 13:58:55 2014, in response to Re: Riders on C train will have to wait longer for new Subway cars, posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 30 19:07:06 2014. Sorry, I thought you meant Terp! |
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| (1305593) | |
Re: More info on Bombardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue |
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Posted by Jace on Sat Aug 2 17:12:33 2014, in response to Re: More info on BOMBardier R-179 welding crack prototype cars issue, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 2 07:20:45 2014. Those trucks are outside frame GSI G70s, the same truck used on various Comet type cars except as inside frame variants. The only truck Amtrak used that is similar to the Rockwell is the Budd Pioneer III on the Amcan Is. These both have articulated frames and have a rubber sleeve around the bearings that serves as the primary suspension. The big difference is that the Rockwells have two transoms with spherical bearings versus one central articulation point on the Pioneers. The cracks on the R46 trucks were on these transoms.The Pioneers were used on a lot of Budd built cars including their Silverliners, the M1s, PATCO cars, the last four R32s (at least initially) and even one RDC (CN 6110 an ex Budd demonstrator). |
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