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| Re: Manny B before the BMT (1172693) | |
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| (1173004) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Aug 17 14:23:03 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Aug 17 14:08:03 2012. Okay. Where did the Myrtle and 5th ave el trains turn after the loop was shut down in 1935? I'm guessing they used the 2 bridge-bound inside tracks, just before the 4 tracks merged into 2 to cross the bridge. |
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| (1173005) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Aug 17 14:29:10 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Aug 17 14:23:03 2012. If you look you can see the tracks coming from Adams St connecting to the Fulton St el near Tillary St on Concord St. All 5th/Culver, Myrtle and Lexington Ave el trains used this to access the lower level. Remember Sands St was originally built to terminate ALL el trains on the upper level, for passanger transfers to the bridge cable car system. El connections were added later. |
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| (1173007) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Aug 17 14:36:49 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Aug 17 13:55:57 2012. Really, I did not know that. I thought all trains could stop here.I do know that there was express service on the Fulton el, with thru trains from Lefferts running non-stop between Atlantic Ave and Franklin Ave (where the line becomes 2 tracks) after thru service on the Brighton line ended. Some of the local service starting at Atlantic Ave ran to FF. I wish I had bookmarked the link to the 1920's service guide showing this. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1173017) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 17 15:27:51 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Aug 17 07:34:52 2012. As another poster mentioned, trains from Myrtle, Lex and 5 Av could turn on the upper level loop whereas Fulton trains not destined for Park Row would have to used the Fulton Ferry spur to turn. |
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| (1173027) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by merrick1 on Fri Aug 17 15:44:32 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 15 21:57:05 2012. Of course it wasn't particularly well designed and had structural problems from the beginning. |
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| (1173031) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by merrick1 on Fri Aug 17 15:48:30 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Aug 16 11:39:55 2012. Not really. The US was only a regional power until WW I. When the Manny B was built Britannia ruled the waves (and much of the World) |
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| (1173053) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 17 16:37:36 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by merrick1 on Fri Aug 17 15:48:30 2012. I think the US achieved a certain amount of international respect as a result of the Spanish American War. |
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| (1173077) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 17 18:12:53 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by merrick1 on Fri Aug 17 15:44:32 2012. Still better work than the Tacoma Narrows. :) |
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| (1173081) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Fri Aug 17 18:40:08 2012, in response to Manny B before the BMT, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 15 21:09:23 2012. Amazing photo but I hate the fact that trains travel over the Bridge.The ride is pretty slow compared to most Underwater Tubes. I really wish the BMT built tunnels for those subway lines instead. |
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| (1173091) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 17 19:40:57 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Fri Aug 17 18:40:08 2012. I'd almost agree with you there. Nothing illustrates the fun of running a train over that bridge than stalling out because you ain't got enough working motors to make it over the top. But there it is anyway. :) |
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| (1173114) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 17 22:40:47 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Fri Aug 17 18:40:08 2012. They could have built replacement tunnels for the bridge tracks with all the time and money it took to repair the bridge...Lower Manhattan Access study had a tunnel replacing the Manny B tracks..but since then..it has been combined with the SAS, then disregarded or DEFERRED until a "later date"..all that "study money" wasted.. |
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| (1173200) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 18 14:17:48 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 17 22:40:47 2012. Like the 2nd Ave subway, after 1930, 1950 and 1970. |
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| (1173201) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by renee gil on Sat Aug 18 14:25:13 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 18 14:17:48 2012. Wasn't there a 1949 proposal for the 2nd Avenue Subway? |
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| (1173202) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by renee gil on Sat Aug 18 14:26:52 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 18 14:17:48 2012. Wasn't there a 1949 proposal for the 2nd Avenue Subway? I assume that's what the R-11's were originally built for..... |
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| (1173204) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 18 15:00:07 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by renee gil on Sat Aug 18 14:26:52 2012. Yea, I rounded it off to 1950. |
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| (1173206) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by renee gil on Sat Aug 18 15:33:29 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 18 15:00:07 2012. Ok. : ) |
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| (1173207) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Aug 18 15:38:15 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by renee gil on Sat Aug 18 14:25:13 2012. AND a bond issue which disappeared into deferred maintenance and "saving the fare" |
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| (1173241) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 18 20:23:44 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by renee gil on Sat Aug 18 15:33:29 2012. And 1929 to 1930! |
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| (1173277) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Aug 18 23:45:26 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 17 18:12:53 2012. Gallopin' Gerty?that bridge was a musical mania.... |
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| (1173279) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 18 23:50:06 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Edwards! on Sat Aug 18 23:45:26 2012. That one taught quite a few engineers about the concept of "wingolets" ... :) |
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| (1173288) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Aug 19 01:46:14 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 18 23:50:06 2012. deck was far too shallow..too narrow..too light..Candace is annoying..Furb is cool,a kid of few words..Perry is a platypus..which is one big joke on creation[God has a sense of humor after all] |
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| (1173290) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 19 02:22:36 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Edwards! on Sun Aug 19 01:46:14 2012. And as far as Galloping Gerty went, no place for the wind to go but up the sides. And indeed HE does. Look at this place if you need an example. :) |
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| (1173345) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 19 13:45:41 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 19 02:22:36 2012. The original Tacoma Narrows Bridge was built on a shoestring budget, relatively speaking, something like $6.4 million. I hate to use the term skimping, but you had to figure they cut corners here and there. Compare that to the Varrazano Bridge (even adjusted for inflation), which carried a price tag of $324 million in 1964 dollars. |
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| (1173347) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 19 13:47:22 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 18 23:50:06 2012. The Whitestone Bridge now has no stiffening truss at all; the one that was there for years was removed. It hasn't collapsed yet. |
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| (1173348) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 19 13:48:32 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Aug 17 13:27:38 2012. Especially when they have to use a calculator to add two plus two. |
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| (1173364) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sun Aug 19 15:38:19 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 19 13:47:22 2012. It didn't have stiffening trusses originally. Othmar Amman insisted it didn't need them but after the Tacoma Narrows collapse they were added at the cost of removing the sidewalks. |
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| (1173381) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 19 18:24:30 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 19 13:47:22 2012. Never could understand why they bothered. With the width of the bridge being what it was, any wind-induced movement would be at such a low frequency as to not amount to anything. |
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| (1173383) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 19 18:25:24 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 19 13:45:41 2012. It was also rather narrow, and yeah ... cheesey. That taught them a thing or three. :) |
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| (1173393) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 19 19:50:54 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by merrick1 on Sun Aug 19 15:38:19 2012. I take it the GWB didn't have swaying problems before the lower level was added. |
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| (1173396) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Aug 19 20:06:52 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 19 19:50:54 2012. I take it the GWB didn't have swaying problems before the lower level was added.I believe that George did like to swing around a bit but Martha put an end to that. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1173415) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 20 01:07:50 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 19 13:47:22 2012. yup..that only due to the airfoils placed on the deck to redirect air currents above and below to curtail osculation.. |
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| (1173416) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 20 01:11:52 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 19 13:45:41 2012. well,the VN was designed to carry AWESOME WEIGHT..not to mention the bridge is MASSIVE to begin with..This bridge is exactly what the 125th st/Hudson River bridge would have looked like if it was built..with a main span 60ft shorter than the VN Bridge.. |
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| (1173445) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 20 08:13:10 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 17 18:12:53 2012. Yeah, even with all of its problems, the Manny B held up better than that one- the Tacoma Narrows lasted 3 months!! |
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| (1173446) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 20 08:15:10 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 20 01:11:52 2012. And it does- look at th trucks and buses on it!!! |
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| (1173448) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 20 08:16:47 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 18 23:50:06 2012. But if we think about it- the Manny B, for all its problems, represented the best work of its time. The Tacoma-Narrows (30 years later)was built on the cheap. |
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| (1173464) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 20 10:56:14 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 19 13:47:22 2012. that maybe so..but the BW bridge did suffer from lateral sway enough to be felt by drivers/passengers crossing the structure..especially during windy/stormy days..so much so that complains were filed far and wide..the "stiffening truss" didnt work out as well as they figured..which is why the airfoil replaced it. |
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| (1173467) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Aug 20 11:08:38 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by merrick1 on Sun Aug 19 15:38:19 2012. Tacoma Narrows most fatal flaw was the ratio of length to width to weight. Trusses add weight as well as allow wind a pathway. Tacoma was light, narrow, and long. Compared to the Bronx Whitestone which had an acceptable ratio of length, width, weight, Tacoma did not. Whitestone's trusses were added more at the insistence of Moses more than anything else as a measure of perceived increased safety as opposed to actual advantages in safety. The trusses have been replaced with I believe fiberglass panels which will deflect wind via their triangular shape. |
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Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Aug 20 11:11:34 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 20 10:56:14 2012. I don't know if it was that the truss didn't work out so well as much as it looked awful. They did last nearly 60 years. |
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Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 20 11:32:59 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Aug 20 11:11:34 2012. yeah...on windy days..you would REALLY FEEL the osculation..up down..left right..enough to induce vertigo..so the "truss" didnt stiffen the deck as much as they would have liked. |
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Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Aug 20 11:40:14 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 20 11:32:59 2012. I know. I've driven over it plenty of times. I recall it being closed a couple times even. |
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Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 20 11:45:06 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Aug 20 11:40:14 2012. oh yeah..my wife became VIOLENTLY ILL one time while crossing...so much so she refuses to this very day to use it..so we take the TNB. |
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Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Aug 20 12:17:13 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Aug 19 20:06:52 2012. After Martha was finished, they adjusted the cables, so now there is very little sway. |
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Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Aug 20 12:54:49 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 20 11:45:06 2012. I've never experienced it but I know it happens. One morning in 2005 or so I was closed altogether and Im pretty sure around '68 it was closed for a while because of the oscillation. |
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| (1173492) | |
Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Aug 20 12:56:50 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Aug 19 19:50:54 2012. I doubt it. The GW is a very wide span. It has a very acceptable ratio of length to width. |
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Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 20 14:43:53 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Aug 19 20:06:52 2012. I heard recently that the GWB was not named for the US President but rather for a rather notorious Irish - American Tammany Hall politician by the name of George Washington Plunkett. |
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Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by VictorM on Mon Aug 20 20:53:48 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 20 11:32:59 2012. That's right. And the added weight of the trusses plus the heavy traffic overloaded the two main cables for almost 60 years. They are going to evaluate those cables in the next couple of years and may even have to replace them - something that's never been done on a suspension bridge before. |
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Re: Manny B before the BMT |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Aug 20 21:33:47 2012, in response to Re: Manny B before the BMT, posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 20 01:11:52 2012. Supposedly the GWB is even heavier. |
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