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| LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... (1172686) | |
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| (1172686) | |
LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by aaron on Wed Aug 15 20:07:35 2012 ...I had a Zone 3-1 Peak ticket that was expiring so I used it today from a Zone 4 station. The 3-1 Zone fare is $8.75 and the 4-1 Zone fare is $10.00.I gave the conductor the ticket and $1.25 and he told me the step- up was $2.00 not $1.25. I told him that shouldn't be, because it was a step-up, not a penalty fare. I know the penalty fare is $5 for purchase on the train and I don't have a problem with that. But, this was a step-up, not a penalty. He told me the step-ups are automatically rounded up because the conductor's aren't required to carry coins any longer. I told him that was fine, but I had the exact change. And, what if I gave him 8 quarters for the step-up. Was he not going to take it? I gave him 2 bucks, but I wasn't happy about it. What a hoax... |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by TERRapin station on Thu Aug 16 00:03:45 2012, in response to LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by aaron on Wed Aug 15 20:07:35 2012. It may be a ripoff but it's not a hoax. It's real. MNCR has it too. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Train2104 on Thu Aug 16 00:17:52 2012, in response to LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by aaron on Wed Aug 15 20:07:35 2012. They ARE required to carry coins...for senior fares which aren't rounded or surcharged. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Thu Aug 16 03:40:13 2012, in response to LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by aaron on Wed Aug 15 20:07:35 2012. If you think that's bad, listen to what NJ Transit does...the one way fare from Newark to Raritan is $10.25. The one way fare from Newark to High Bridge is $11.00. If somebody wants to go from Newark to High Bridge and they only have a Newark-Raritan ticket, the passenger is charged $6.00, even though the "difference" between the two fares is only 75 cents. The $6 fare is what passengers pay who get on in Raritan and go to High Bridge. An "extension of journey" at NJ Transit is the fare from the destination on the ticket to the passenger's destination..., not the difference between the two fares... |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Aug 16 07:57:47 2012, in response to LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by aaron on Wed Aug 15 20:07:35 2012. Time to go to a swipe-on / swipe-off system and leave the excess trainmen on the platform.You get on at Babylon and it charges you for a trip to Manhattan (where you do not need to swipe to leave the train), If you get off sooner, you swipe again and the charge is revised to the correct fare to that station. Homebound you do not need to swipe in Manhattan, you only need to swipe when you get off, and are charged for a trip from Manhattan, if you get on at Baldwin then you have to swipe-on and are only charged to where you get off. Commutation tickets are valid between two named stations and only the commutation fare is charged. Any other station and a full-fare is charged. ROAR |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by TERRapin station on Thu Aug 16 09:02:42 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Aug 16 07:57:47 2012. False. And irrelevant. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Thu Aug 16 09:37:14 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Aug 16 07:57:47 2012. Sounds like an interesting concept. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Aug 16 09:52:05 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by TERRapin station on Thu Aug 16 09:02:42 2012.  |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Train2104 on Thu Aug 16 10:07:56 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Aug 16 07:57:47 2012. Problem with swiping: where do you put the turnstiles? For the elevated stations it's easy. But for the grade level stations...? |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Thu Aug 16 10:11:40 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Train2104 on Thu Aug 16 10:07:56 2012. Wrought Iron fences around the platforms with entrances might work. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Aug 16 16:22:18 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Aug 16 07:57:47 2012. You get on at Babylon and it charges you for a trip to Manhattan (where you do not need to swipe to leave the train), If you get off sooner, you swipe again and the charge is revised to the correct fare to that station.I like it, especially the "refund" for an early exit... presumably someone exiting without a corresponding "entry" would be charged the from-Manhattan rate so an intermediate farebeater would need to evade turnstiles twice, doubling the risk of getting caught. However going to Manhattan, only one turnstile would need to be evaded. I don't see a need to avoid turnstiles in Manhattan - if Shinjuku can handle 3.3 million turnstile interactions a day, a way can be found for the 300,000 (or 600,000) of Penn Station's passengers. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Aug 16 18:57:02 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Aug 16 09:52:05 2012. Oh No!! Not another turtle in the making. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by TERRapin station on Thu Aug 16 20:29:36 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Aug 16 07:57:47 2012. No one besides me noted how this post does not describe a solution for the problem in the thread. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Aug 17 00:42:18 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Aug 16 07:57:47 2012. God no. That's about the WORST idea anyone has ever proposed for a fare collection system. I guess Boston's "pay double inbound, free outbound" experiment might technically be worse, but at least it *tried* to reduce cost by minimizing fare collection equipment. This proposal to equip every station with a fare gate and the technicians required to maintain them would present an onerous capital and annual expenditure the LIRR's already stretched budget would be hard pressed to supply.SEPTA is about to embark upon a fare collection system on the Regional Rail which rivals your proposal for insanity. It will be confusing, patently unfair to most riders, and very expensive to install and maintain. But again, at least by placing the fare gates at centrally located stations they've maximized the people using each gate and centralized their maintenance of those gates. And of course your proposal would spend a tremendous amount of money while not solving the problem outlined by Aaron. A fare collection system with fare gates and a zone fare will require an AddFare machine inside the gates, and the fare system can always be structured such that it overcharges on certain combinations of rides between various zones. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Aug 17 01:52:03 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Train Dude on Thu Aug 16 10:11:40 2012. Sure, cause that'd only cost a few hundred million dollars and do nothing to solve the problem outlined by Aaron. Well done. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Aug 17 02:14:49 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by WillD on Fri Aug 17 01:52:03 2012. I wasn't responding to Aaron's "problem". I was responding to Elias' suggestion. I guess that Elias should have submitted his suggestion to you before posting it and when you nixed it, then there wouldn't have been a need for me to respond. I do value your opinion though. Thank again for pitching in for whineberg in his absence. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Mtk52983 on Fri Aug 17 07:24:25 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by TERRapin station on Thu Aug 16 20:29:36 2012. Actually it does from my reading. If every station other than Penn Station you had to swipe in/out of the card could automatically debit for a fare to Zone 1 but if you get off sooner it would refund the difference between Your Zone to Zone 1 vs. Your Zone to wherever you got off. It would also be helpful because if I have a Zone 4 to Zone 1 that is about to expire and I am traveling Zone 3 to Zone 1 I can use same ticket. MTA makes money from fewer personnel needed and during peak times all tickets would be scanned unlike times where I have seen conductors be unable to make it through the train due to crowding |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri Aug 17 07:35:00 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Train Dude on Fri Aug 17 02:14:49 2012. Pwnd again... |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Aug 17 08:04:49 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by TERRapin station on Thu Aug 16 20:29:36 2012. How is it not a solution? That is how your Oyster in London worked more or less. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by TERRapin station on Fri Aug 17 08:13:50 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Mtk52983 on Fri Aug 17 07:24:25 2012. No, an easier solution would be to simply allow the correct fare to be paid with exact change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Mtk52983 on Fri Aug 17 08:55:01 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by TERRapin station on Fri Aug 17 08:13:50 2012. That does not increase revenue because conductors will have to spend extra time making change and it prevents tickets from expiring because if I am going to pay the same anyone using an old zone 1 to zone 3 and extending to zone 4 as I would by buying a new zone 1 to zone 4 why would I not use the old ticket and not have a paid one way fare go unused? An alternative is giving conductors credit/debit card readers and not charging a penalty for that but you have a cash surcharge to the next dollar |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 17 09:08:32 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Mtk52983 on Fri Aug 17 08:55:01 2012. There's no need to increase revenue as far as this issue goes. Besides, I said use exact change, not make change. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 17 09:11:25 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Aug 17 08:04:49 2012. It may be a solution to other problems, but it's not the solution to the simple problem that is the subject of this thread.The solution is to simply allow people with exact change to pay the actual exact fare. You don't need to implement a gigantic system that will cost 10s or 100s of millions of dollars simply to solve the problem that is the subject of this thread. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 17 09:13:56 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by WillD on Fri Aug 17 00:42:18 2012. And of course your proposal would spend a tremendous amount of money while not solving the problem outlined by Aaron. Why are we the only two people who responded to Broadway Lion who realize this? |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Aug 17 09:56:01 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 17 09:13:56 2012. Because LIONS are BIG and FURRY and have great TEETH.AND they are smart enough to know that the LION has moved the bar on this thread. You look at things from a turtle's point of view, that is close to the ground and limited to about an arm's reach. The LION on the other hand is tall and FAST and can leap little thoughts in a single bound. You see a problem about small change, LION sees the BIG PICTURE: Fare Collection and what makes for fair fare collection combined with efficiency, expediency, elasticity, and enovation. Paper fare media and people who collect them are going bye-bye. So sit down and have some soup. ROAR |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Aug 17 10:24:34 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Aug 17 09:56:01 2012. In the land of Turtles, and blue ribbon pussy cats, "moving the bar" in a discussion is not permitted. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Aug 17 10:32:03 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Train Dude on Fri Aug 17 10:24:34 2012. LION'S Make and/or change the rules as they move along.If it does not move, it is dead and can be eaten. If it does move, then you can catch it and kill it, and then eat it. ROAR |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri Aug 17 10:36:42 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Train Dude on Fri Aug 17 10:24:34 2012. In the land of Turtles, and blue ribbon pussy cats, "moving the bar" in a discussion is not permitted.Its a very "small" land if you ask me anyway.. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Aug 17 11:05:14 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 17 09:11:25 2012. I imagine there could be other benefits (and other risks) to the sort of system I'm proposing. But it could be a solution to this problem. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Aug 17 12:18:12 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Train Dude on Fri Aug 17 02:14:49 2012. You were responding to Elias' response to Aaron, so you must in some way be addressing Aaron's post. It's not Elias' fault that he's unfamiliar with the economics of barrier fare collection, but I would have hoped you'd have picked something up along the way. You're looking at a cost per station of between $750,000 and $1,125,000, and then you end up paying a technician who can only cover a dozen or so stations for eight hours a day. The LIRR would be looking at hundreds of millions of dollars to install the gates and millions of dollars a year to maintain them. It should be readily apparent to anyone that it will never be worthwhile to install faregates in locations as marginal as most commuter rail stations. It could work, poorly, if Elias had suggested putting the faregates at the NYC end of the system, but he didn't and instead proposed to spend the maximum amount of money for the least benefit without addressing Aaron's problem. And you were foolish enough to claim it was a good idea.But then you already knew all this. You only resort to ad hominems when you know you're wrong and can't bring yourself to admit it. That's also why we see you resort to ad hominem attacks all the time. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 17 12:19:04 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Aug 17 11:05:14 2012. Of course. But this thread presents a specific problem and Broadway Lion came along and proposed something totally unnecessary with respect to the specific problem being discussed. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 17 12:24:26 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Aug 17 09:56:01 2012. No, it's because you don't understand how discussions work. If you want to discuss some completely different subject that is only tangentially related to the issue raised by the OP of the thread, you simply need to state up front that you are changing the subject and what you are now posting has nothing really to do with the subject of the thread and is not meant to be a continuation of the original/ongoing discussion. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Aug 17 12:29:10 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Aug 17 09:56:01 2012. What does any of that Furry BS have to do with what was said about your proposal? How would you propose to make the capital and operational costs less onerous? Why do you insist on placing the fare enforcement equipment where each gate will be utilized by the smallest number of passengers? Why do you insist on this fantasy that faregates are free, 100% effective, and completely devoid of any maintenance costs?We're going to be stuck with a paper fare media for a very long time. At best you could get paper RFID tickets, but you'd sink the LIRR's finances trying to supply every rider making an incidental trip with a plastic RFID ticket. And finally, in what way does anything you've said in this thread have anything to do with the problem Aaron posted about in the OP? |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 17 12:33:34 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by WillD on Fri Aug 17 12:29:10 2012. Great post. Thanks for the support. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by CJ on Fri Aug 17 15:30:42 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by WillD on Fri Aug 17 12:29:10 2012.  |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Aug 17 17:53:45 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by WillD on Fri Aug 17 12:18:12 2012. You'll forgive me if I don't read your response since you took 5 seconds in dismissing mine. I'm not interested in anything further that you have to say. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Aug 17 17:56:05 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 17 12:24:26 2012. If that be the case, then why are you adding to the problem by discussing Elias' proposal which was completely different from the original subject. By doing so, are you not adding to the problem. Try to stay focused on the original topic, brian. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Aug 17 17:57:15 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 17 12:33:34 2012. Ah the sisterhood is re-uniting. Are you planning any concerts? |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri Aug 17 18:02:28 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Train Dude on Fri Aug 17 17:57:15 2012. LOL!!!Both of em are a joke... |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri Aug 17 18:05:21 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by CJ on Fri Aug 17 15:30:42 2012. Well he does have such a pretty Blue Ribbon in his hair..*Smooches* |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Fri Aug 17 18:08:50 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Aug 16 18:57:02 2012. Actually, most turtles lay clutches of 30-60 eggs. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Gamera on Fri Aug 17 18:31:46 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Railman718 on Fri Aug 17 18:05:21 2012. Was dat First Place in the Westmister LAPDog Show? |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Aug 17 18:42:18 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Gamera on Fri Aug 17 18:31:46 2012. More of a "PUSSY" cat show |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri Aug 17 18:45:00 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Train Dude on Fri Aug 17 18:42:18 2012. BBBBwwwhhhhaaaaa!!!!! |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Aug 17 22:59:33 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Aug 17 09:56:01 2012. But your plan is about as inefficient as a plan could possibly be, not expedient at all, and is the least elastic fare system possible.It would make more sense to just make the whole damn thing free. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by CJ on Fri Aug 17 23:45:54 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Train Dude on Fri Aug 17 18:42:18 2012. LOL! :D |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Aug 18 01:27:51 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Aug 17 08:04:49 2012. The LIRR also has around 83 million annual passengers to the LUL's 1.17 billion passengers. The fare gates LUL uses to enforce Oyster fares receive more passengers on a per-gate basis than any gate on the LIRR system outside of those placed at NYP, GCT, Flatbush, or Jamaica. Hell, LUL doesn't even bother with fare gates at some of their more far-flung stations, most of which probably see more ridership than the average LIRR non-NYC fare zone stations. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Aug 18 01:31:00 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by CJ on Fri Aug 17 15:30:42 2012. Since you're the expert, perhaps you'd care to let us know how putting fare gates throughout the LIRR system will ensure a fare policy which is absolutely fair to the passengers. |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Aug 18 01:32:22 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Railman718 on Fri Aug 17 18:05:21 2012. Then how will installing fare gates at every LIRR station ensure no passenger is shortchanged or dealt with in a manner they feel is unfair? |
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Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax... |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Aug 18 01:33:31 2012, in response to Re: LIRR Fare Ripoff Hoax..., posted by Gamera on Fri Aug 17 18:31:46 2012. So how would you install fare gates in such a manner as to ensure the passengers are not short changed? |
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