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(1165865)

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Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by italianstallion on Tue Jul 10 11:20:14 2012

. . .by 2040, maybe.


Reuters

Amtrak announced a $151 billion improvement plan on Monday that includes 37-minute trips from New York to Philadelphia at speeds approaching 220 miles per hour (354 km per hour).

However, the U.S. passenger railroad will need substantial financial support from both state and federal governments to make its ambitious plan to transform rail travel in the Northeast a reality.

The railroad predicted that super-fast train trips along the East Coast could be a reality by 2040. Travel times from New York to either Washington or Boston - both about 200 miles (350 km) in distance - would also be slashed, to 94 minutes, the report said.

Current travel times from New York to Philadelphia on Amtrak's sleek Acela trains are 1 hour, 15 minutes. Travel between New York and Washington currently takes 2 hours, 45 minutes and New York to Boston takes 3 hours, 41 minutes, according to Amtrak's website.

"The NEC (Northeast Corridor) region is America's economic powerhouse and is facing a severe crisis with an aging and congested multi-model transportation network that routinely operates at or near capacity in key segments," Amtrak's President Joe Boardman said in a statement.

The traditionally cash-starved railroad is funded by Congress, where Republicans have been reluctant to finance prior plans to develop high-speed rail in the United States.

Amtrak spokesman Steve Kulm acknowledged a lack of federal support but said there were other funding options.

"You have to have a plan and if you have a plan, the money will follow," Kulm said.

Among the sources was $450 million in funding turned down by the state of Florida for a high-speed rail proposal there that will instead be used for rail improvements in New Jersey.

Starting sometime in the 2020s, the hyper speedy "NextGen" trains will replace Acela trains, which were first introduced in 2000, Kulm said.

The newest Amtrak improvement plan also calls for direct links to airports and listed Newark, Philadelphia, Baltimore and White Plains, New York, as possible candidates for Amtrak service. Some are already served by local commuter rail lines, such as Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, which connects to the Philadelphia International Airport.

"The vision we will shape with the Northeastern states, Amtrak and all of our stakeholders will outlast the vagaries of politics, budgets and critics," said Joseph Szabo, administrator of the Federal Railroad Administration, which oversees Amtrak, of the 2012 report.

Amtrak also said it is essential to the entire Northeast Corridor to build new tunnels connecting New York to New Jersey under the Hudson River. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie scuttled a similar plan in 2010 that would have primarily benefited New Jersey Transit. The newer plan would benefit both New Jersey Transit and Amtrak and would use a remodeled Penn Station, said Kulm.

(1165867)

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CHART -- Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by italianstallion on Tue Jul 10 11:52:08 2012, in response to Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by italianstallion on Tue Jul 10 11:20:14 2012.

some_text

(1165874)

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . . ??

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 10 13:15:05 2012, in response to Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by italianstallion on Tue Jul 10 11:20:14 2012.

Complete waste of money. The distances aren't long enough to sustain a 145-mph average speed.

Assuming WAS-BOS, just two years ago, they were estimating $260 million per mile. Now it's up to $336 million per mile?? We don't need a duplicate NEC when the current one can be upgraded for triple-digit average speeds right now using tilt-train technology, for way cheaper.

(1165899)

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Jul 10 16:33:51 2012, in response to Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by italianstallion on Tue Jul 10 11:20:14 2012.

I'm guessing this is all via entirely new ROW?

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 10 16:49:03 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Jul 10 16:33:51 2012.

For $336 million per mile, it ought to be ten brand new rights of way.

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by italianstallion on Tue Jul 10 16:59:13 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Jul 10 16:33:51 2012.

New tracks but largely along existing rail ROW or highways. Final alignment not chosen, but found this map showing one possible route (with NY-Boston alignment via Danbury!):

some_text

Here is the AMTK report - it's a large PDF file:


The Amtrak Vision for the Northeast Corridor - 2012 Update Report




(1165915)

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Jul 10 17:36:58 2012, in response to Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by italianstallion on Tue Jul 10 11:20:14 2012.

Can't wait - except that I'll be 91 years old in 2040!

(1165923)

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by italianstallion on Tue Jul 10 17:57:50 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Jul 10 17:36:58 2012.

Hey - me too!

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jul 10 17:59:51 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 10 16:49:03 2012.

SMH

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 10 18:01:30 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Jul 10 17:36:58 2012.

I'll be 71.

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . . ??

Posted by ClearAspect on Tue Jul 10 18:06:51 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . . ??, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 10 13:15:05 2012.

Impossible! Even the best tilt train technology would still prevent true high speed speeds with some of the curves on the NEC route. So you see the curve radius of the high speed trains in France, Germany and Japan? They make some of the curves on the NEC look like 90 degree turns. They should build a High Speed ROW right along side or above the I95 corridor. I95 is the most direct route (via NJTPKE) between all 3 cities. A spur can be build to Philly that follows I95 through philly and then via the the I95 connector route. Then you could truly get high speed trains that could get between NY and WSH in 90 min or less. The target should be boston to washington in under 4 hours. It takes 8 by car, and by plane its 441 miles so under an hr by flight but with check in and luggage claim it takes about 4 hours. Tilt Train technology is fantastic do not get me wrong but the ROW isn't sufficient. However I agree that the price per mile is outrageous.

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by Dave on Tue Jul 10 18:12:12 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by italianstallion on Tue Jul 10 16:59:13 2012.

Looks like they're recreating some of the old NHRR route! Through the early 1960's there was passenger service between NY and Waterbury via the Naugatuck Valley Line, albeit through Stamford, not Danbury. Earlier, both passenger and freight service was available between Waterbury and Blackstone (very close to Woonsocket) and from there, to Boston.

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by The Silence on Tue Jul 10 19:55:04 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 10 18:01:30 2012.

wow, I feel young, I'll only be 52.

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by JohnnyMints on Tue Jul 10 20:11:15 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by The Silence on Tue Jul 10 19:55:04 2012.

I'll be 57.

(1165959)

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Jul 10 20:18:03 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 10 18:01:30 2012.

I'll be 81, had no idea that you are younger than me.

(1165980)

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . . ??

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue Jul 10 22:19:38 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . . ??, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Jul 10 18:06:51 2012.

Pwned.

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by Fulton Frank on Tue Jul 10 22:24:42 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Jul 10 17:36:58 2012.

Um me too Bob. 91. Ugh.

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 10 22:37:17 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Jul 10 20:18:03 2012.

Easy to tell that he never lived through the fabulous 50's ... he believes the Ozzie and Harriet version. :)

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 10 22:40:50 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by Train Dude on Tue Jul 10 17:59:51 2012.

If the plan is to cut the length of BOS-WAS down to 400 miles, the cost now goes up to $378 million per mile. But we get that fancy new stop at White Plains Airport (oh wowzers), and high-speed rail to Danbury and Hartford (guess that'll put Metro-North's Danbury Branch out of business, eh?)

(1165987)

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jul 10 22:43:06 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Jul 10 17:36:58 2012.

Sounds about right for me as well.

(1166000)

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . . ??

Posted by WillD on Wed Jul 11 00:11:09 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . . ??, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 10 13:15:05 2012.

We don't need a duplicate NEC when the current one can be upgraded for triple-digit average speeds right now using tilt-train technology, for way cheaper.

Ah yes, demonstrating your firm grasp of best practices once again. And pray tell, where are these supposed tilt trains running on legacy track which achieve this speed?

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jul 11 00:33:30 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by Dave on Tue Jul 10 18:12:12 2012.

Well there actually was also a NH line connecting Danbury, Southbury, and Waterbury. The bridge piers still exist in the Housatonic River just north of the I-84 crossing

(1166006)

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jul 11 00:34:47 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by italianstallion on Tue Jul 10 16:59:13 2012.

When they said White Plains airport, I kinda had a feeling it was a new ROW. Seems like it's only north of NY though. Not sure I'm really a supporter of this.

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . . ??

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jul 11 00:38:04 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . . ??, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Jul 10 18:06:51 2012.

I think you need to rethink your I95 through Philly idea. That roads got plenty of turns that would slow down a train significantly

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . . ??

Posted by WillD on Wed Jul 11 00:53:18 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . . ??, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jul 11 00:38:04 2012.

So leave the locals on the NEC between Wilmington and Trenton, run the express HSTs along the NJTP, and build a stop for the semi-expresses at the PATCO Woodcrest station. Admittedly it'd be a bit of a hike to make the transfer there, and 20 minutes to Center City may erase whatever savings you get from riding a 220mph train from Woodcrest. Oh, and the little thing about the folks up in Hamilton, Plainsboro, or wherever they try to put the connector to the NEC burning the planners in effigy for having the gall to suggest a train go through their communities.

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . . ??

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jul 11 01:21:00 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . . ??, posted by WillD on Wed Jul 11 00:53:18 2012.

Skipping Philly is not going to go over well

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jul 11 08:39:23 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jul 11 00:34:47 2012.

Rail access to Westchester County ("White Plains") Airport would be nice, but there is no need for it to be Amtrak or HSR. A spur off the MN Harlem Line would do it. Building what is shown would seem to mean abandoning the use of the one section of real high-speed rail that currently exists on the Acela route, through part of Rhode Island. That would be a shame and a waste.

(1166047)

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by R30A on Wed Jul 11 10:32:36 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jul 11 08:39:23 2012.

They have no choice but to move from the current route. The shore line route has speed many functionally unfixable speed restrictions west of RI, and a low maximum capacity.

(1166063)

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jul 11 13:32:03 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by R30A on Wed Jul 11 10:32:36 2012.

. . . which is why they went with tilt trains in the first place. But they had to buy an unproven one that couldn't achieve 9 degrees cant deficiency, didn't they?

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jul 11 13:32:55 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Jul 10 20:18:03 2012.

You should be more consoivative than me, then.

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Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . .

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jul 11 14:01:32 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak to Philly in 37 minutes . . ., posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jul 11 08:39:23 2012.

Agreed, it makes you wanna scream WTF ARE YOU GUYS THINKING!?


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