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Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by Hank EisenStein on Mon Jun 25 22:29:44 2012, in response to Rubber-tired subways, posted by Italianstallion on Mon Jun 25 22:24:21 2012. It's the quiet, and the clean. |
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Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Mon Jun 25 22:33:45 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by Hank EisenStein on Mon Jun 25 22:29:44 2012. Well, the interior noise seemed no better than conventional trains, given the noise from the motors. I guess there is less noise on the platforms. |
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Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by The Silence on Mon Jun 25 22:34:23 2012, in response to Rubber-tired subways, posted by Italianstallion on Mon Jun 25 22:24:21 2012. pros: quiter, can take steeper grades.cons: more matince intensive, requires a back up Steel Wheel/Steel rail system incase the tires fail, and to switch the train. requires more wheels to a car, requires a fourth rail return system |
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Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 25 22:42:08 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by The Silence on Mon Jun 25 22:34:23 2012. In addition, the traction allows much faster acceleration and deceleration rates. Along with the ability to handle grades better, that's the primary advantage to rubber tired trains. But they often have "creves" (blowouts) ... |
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Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 26 00:28:11 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by Hank EisenStein on Mon Jun 25 22:29:44 2012. Sulfur-laden tires clean? |
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Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jun 26 01:59:11 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by Hank EisenStein on Mon Jun 25 22:29:44 2012. with the smell of burning rubber.. |
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| (1163527) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 26 06:08:01 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 25 22:42:08 2012. I've seen studies that say that steel-wheel on steel-rail can already accelerate and decelerate at greater rates than comfort can stand, especially for standing passengers. I would expect the rolling resistance of rubber tires to increase heat and lower fuel efficiency.Montreal adopted rubber tires because of Francophilia. Don't know about Mexico City. |
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| (1163528) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 26 06:28:44 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 26 06:08:01 2012. The studies can be interesting. First thing I learned in schoolcar was how little contact there is between steel wheels and iron. the contact surface for each wheel is about that of one DIME. Wheel slip, leaves, rubber tires do better. Steel on steel is good for reducing rolling friction and drag, but there's limits on grade and traction. Those studies should be interesting.But the reason why France went with rubber was grades and the superior acceleration and deceleration with more "grip" ... Montreal? Heh. Well ... pardonez moi. :) |
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| (1163539) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by Jon Bell on Tue Jun 26 10:44:20 2012, in response to Rubber-tired subways, posted by Italianstallion on Mon Jun 25 22:24:21 2012. The French like to do things "their own way." :-/Another example is the "tram sur pneus," a sort of tram/trolleybus hybrid which uses rubber tires and dual overhead wires like a trolleybus, together with a single guiding rail down the middle of the "trackway." Nancy and Caen built these, and one of them (I forget which) had so much trouble with vehicles "jumping the track" that they've decided to convert to regular two-rail trams. There's also an optically-guided version of this system, with laser beams bouncing off a path marked on the pavement or something like that, but I don't remember which city decided to go with it or whether it's actually in operation yet. |
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| (1163543) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 26 11:30:25 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 26 06:28:44 2012. I dunno, an R-10 or Multi could just about knock you off yer feet, as is (or was). |
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| (1163579) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jun 26 17:11:29 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 26 11:30:25 2012. Multis were even better at that than R-10s and the R-32s were good at that also. |
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| (1163581) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Tue Jun 26 17:32:16 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by Jon Bell on Tue Jun 26 10:44:20 2012. Another example is the "tram sur pneus....Heheheheheh He said "pneus" heheheheheh |
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| (1163582) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 26 17:36:51 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 26 11:30:25 2012. That's why there were handgrips. Nothing like giving a train a nice brickwall stop to quiet down noisy geese too. :)Seriously though, Montreal cars MOVE. |
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| (1163591) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Jun 26 19:25:06 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by Hank EisenStein on Mon Jun 25 22:29:44 2012. Montreal cars are noisy and rough riding |
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Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Jun 26 22:11:36 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by Joe V on Tue Jun 26 19:25:06 2012. Correct. I discovered that years ago, when I went to Expo '67. Those in Mexico City aren't much better. The ones in Paris were noisy. |
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| (1163628) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Jun 26 22:41:59 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 26 06:08:01 2012. Montreal adopted rubber tires because of Francophilia. Don't know about Mexico City.Mexico City and Santiago ended up with the "Michelin" system because the same consultants that advised Montreal and Lyon ended up advising these cities to go with their system. FWIW, the other reason that the Quebecois ended up with a French based system as 2.5m (8.2 ft) width cars permitted for single tube construction which aided in reducing construction costs as mining was the accepted alternative to using cut and cover. Given that the recent Laval extension was built at nearly $250M per mile and included an underwater tunnel and three stations, their construction methods decisions may have had some merit, especially given the rumoured corruption in Montreal's construction industry. |
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Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Wed Jun 27 09:29:18 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jun 26 01:59:11 2012. But I love the smell of burning rubber.... |
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| (1163673) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Jun 27 09:37:25 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by LRG5784 on Wed Jun 27 09:29:18 2012. Burning Brake Shoes on Rails>Burning Rubber..Steel Dust is good for yer Lungs! |
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| (1163675) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Jun 27 09:52:47 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 25 22:42:08 2012. After converting three lines for pneu, in came an all-motor steel wheel rolling stock which gave similar acceleration and deceleration rates. And even that was later thought too much and they exchanged two motors with trailers.The last line to be converted was line 6 and that was because it had long sections of elevated running and the pneu stock was certainly quieter than the Spragues it replaced. Line 2 also with outside running was considered for conversion but the newer steel stock were quiet enough so it didn't happen. Much later line 14 was built from scratch with pneu and from what I heard has grades not suitable for steel wheel. (Although parts of the line was used for fan trips with older pneu and steel wheel stock) BTW, flat tires happen about once a month. |
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| (1163676) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Jun 27 09:54:47 2012, in response to Rubber-tired subways, posted by Italianstallion on Mon Jun 25 22:24:21 2012. where 4 of the 16 metro lines have rubber tiresIt's 5 lines (1, 4, 6, 11 and 14). |
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| (1163840) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by GIS Man on Fri Jun 29 10:18:06 2012, in response to Rubber-tired subways, posted by Italianstallion on Mon Jun 25 22:24:21 2012. When I was in Mexico City in 1971, they already had rubber-tired trains.Bob |
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| (1163855) | |
Re: Rubber-tired subways |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Fri Jun 29 11:25:26 2012, in response to Re: Rubber-tired subways, posted by GIS Man on Fri Jun 29 10:18:06 2012. The first subway line opened September 4, 1969. A year later the second line opened; the southern part of it replacing a high speed PCC-operated trolley line. |
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