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| Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson (1158815) | |
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| (1159600) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu May 31 12:54:15 2012, in response to Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Gold_12TH on Mon May 28 01:18:15 2012. I would like to say that it's never ok to beat the fare. But honestly, I don't think it's really beating the fare if you intended to pay but the equipment hasn't been maintained.Reading the headline, I initially thought the Councilman was making a moral,justifying, 1970s style-argument that, if it became widespread, would lead to chaos returning. In fact, IMHO, he was being practical. My thoughts, anyway. |
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| (1159601) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu May 31 12:55:00 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 31 03:30:25 2012. So I was at a Home Depot in a line when a female employee pointed out the self (dis)service checkout. I told hjer it was my policy to use human cashiers because it gave them jobs. Her jaw dropped. |
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| (1159692) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by B1bus on Thu May 31 23:41:47 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 30 21:16:00 2012. Is that sarcasm? You know the people who empty the solar cans and scrap the floor can carry some cleaning cards and swipe them. |
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| (1159699) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 1 00:03:49 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by B1bus on Thu May 31 23:41:47 2012. It was to a degree ... given that they're taking away the trash cans now, I figured they were giving up on that too. |
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| (1159712) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 1 04:57:32 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu May 31 12:55:00 2012. I agree with her, it is a silly policy on your behalf. There are plenty of legitimate reasons not use a self-checkout. Privately-operated stores are not social service organizations (unless they are) and do not exist to benefit anyone besides their owners/shareholders and whoever the owners/shareholders see fit to benefit. |
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| (1159741) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Jun 1 11:14:21 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 31 03:27:07 2012. There is one entrance to the A on 181 St., and it is uphill from both east and west. |
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| (1159749) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jun 1 12:28:50 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 1 04:57:32 2012. I think you miss my point. As the customer, I have the right to choose self or human cashier service. If Home Depot chooses to end all human cashiers, I can choose to shop elsewhere. My point to the employee was that by choosing the staffed checkout, I was acting to preserve her employment. I am not demanding HD do so, just putting my money where my choice is. |
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| (1159808) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jun 1 18:36:11 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu May 31 12:55:00 2012. I hate to pick on you, but i keep overhearing conversations and I have to see if the pattern is true and you are the first for this conversation i've spotted on subchat...You like human cashiers.... but do you mail your bills or pay online? Do you file your taxes manually, or efile? |
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| (1159809) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jun 1 18:37:53 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 1 04:57:32 2012. Except according to the privately operated store in it's communication, employees are stakeholders and internal customers, and said store has the need to benefit the community as it benefits the owners in their eyes. It ain't a cartoon in the end. |
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| (1159819) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jun 1 19:37:48 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jun 1 18:36:11 2012. dropped off utility bill last night at (literally) brick and mortar office. usually pay local phone bill at pay station because they no longer have any public offices. credit card bills? human teller so I have a clean receipt. online banking??? turn around twice and say hackable. Now, lest you think I am a total luddite, I do occasionally buy Amtrak and other tix online as well as hunt for some other merchandise although I often choose to call the merchant to place the order w/ a human. Obviously as this conversation is happening in cyberspace, I use computers for many things. While I am not interested in gutting all retail employment I have little sympathy for manual elevator operation. |
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| (1159822) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by merrick1 on Fri Jun 1 19:59:58 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jun 1 19:37:48 2012. 1. I once had a job which involved moving stuff on freight elevators. In buildings with elevator operators the good operators knew what floor you were on and how big your cart was and how much room they had in the car. They would manage the traffic. In buildings with automatic freight elevators it could take a couple tries before you could get your stuff on the elevator.2. (Subway content) People in Washington Heights felt that subway stations with elevator operators were safer than those with automatic elevators. I think all the deep stations in Washington Heights have elevator operators now. 3. A friend of mine worked in a building where the elevator operator had a funny dirty joke for him every morning. She was replaced by a talking elevator that doesn't' know any jokes. |
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| (1159831) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jun 1 21:22:47 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by merrick1 on Fri Jun 1 19:59:58 2012. I take your point about the security issue in subway elevators. However, ALL BART stations have same for ADA purposes and have been self serve from day one. While there certainly have been urine issues, AFAIK no personal violence.As to freight elevators--a different issue. I was more thinking of the typical hotel/office building/apartment block/large department store/hospital/ as opposed to the jerks in Sacramento (legislators) who last I knew still had workers pushing the buttons for them. |
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| (1159836) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 1 22:48:52 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by merrick1 on Fri Jun 1 19:59:58 2012. I love the humorous content..yet bare bones narratives works for me. |
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| (1159863) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 2 02:59:15 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jun 1 12:28:50 2012. I don't miss the point. I respect your right to make your decision but disagree with the reasoning behind it.I am a huge supporter of automation. I also support a guaranteed minimum income and I see no virtue in a positive work ethic. So I will use the machine whenever it is not inconvenient. Just to clarify what I mean by "no virtue in a positive work ethic." it means that I do not believe in the virtue of working hard for its own sake without any incentives to do so. Idle hands are the Devil's workshop, which sounds like a fun place. |
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| (1159864) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 2 03:02:12 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jun 1 18:37:53 2012. The store need only benefit the community in that said benefit provides a reciprocal benefit to the store's bottom line. People shouldn't talk about the "social contract" or other bullshit. If you want performance on the "social contract" then have the government do it. |
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| (1159865) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 2 03:04:52 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Jun 1 11:14:21 2012. But 184/Bennett is downhill from there. |
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| (1159866) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 2 03:10:51 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jun 1 19:37:48 2012. The mail is just as hackable as a website. Except in that case it's called tampering. The convenience and cost of online banking and payments is second to none.I must also admit that I have NEVER in my life paid a bill other than online or by telephone. I also have nearly no use for my checkbook. I have had my current one for over five years and have not yet reached check 110 (I started at 100). |
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| (1159888) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jun 2 11:44:39 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 2 02:59:15 2012. FWIW, I like the work I do for a living--not every minute of it, but the general flow makes me happy. I too appreciate "labor saving devices" and in many respects automation is a good thing. That said, in a situation where we have unacceptable rates of unemployment, keeping cashiers seems okay. BTW, I did try the self serve checkout once at HD and found it very inconvenient. |
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| (1159893) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jun 2 12:22:00 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 2 03:10:51 2012. Over the decades I have had enough instances of "poor accounting practices" by corporations that I prefer cancelled checks/physical receipts. |
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| (1159917) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Sat Jun 2 13:31:04 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jun 2 12:22:00 2012. Thanks for the response. I just reversed back to my pre-online days, and I must say as a born again luddite, tracking everything is much easier again. Not to mention supporting the normal jobs people used to have. It ain't just the mailmen getting laid off in the automated world. |
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| (1159919) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Sat Jun 2 13:34:17 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 2 03:02:12 2012. I get the feeling the corporate communications and orientation videos at all these firms would drive you batty. |
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| (1159935) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 2 15:06:12 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jun 2 11:44:39 2012. I find the self-checkout convenient when you have a couple of items. Beyond that it is a huge pain.As for unemployment, automation neither causes it nor exacerbates it in the long term. The belief that it does is called the Luddite fallacy. |
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| (1160012) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jun 3 05:02:45 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by orange blossom special on Sat Jun 2 13:31:04 2012. How is tracking everything easier? |
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| (1160014) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jun 3 05:04:40 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jun 1 19:37:48 2012. Why would you call to place an order with a human when the human would just enter your order into the same computer system that you could have entered the information into directly?How does a teller get you a clean receipt while an ATM doesn't? |
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| (1160044) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jun 3 10:50:20 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed May 30 08:17:58 2012. No it's sicKening that the MTA would expect people to be seriously inconvenienced because of their failure to maintain equipment and their decision to get rid of station agents. After all if fare boxes on buses are out of order, the MTA no longer takes buses out of service but permits you to ride free. This really isn't much different. |
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| (1160046) | |
Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jun 3 10:55:50 2012, in response to Re: Sometimes farebeating is OK, says NYC Councilman Jackson, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jun 3 05:04:40 2012. In some cases it means direct contact with the merchant rather than via some third party such as pay pal. As to the banks, for a while I was paying very close to deadline. |
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