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| WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport (1156893) | |
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| (1156893) | |
WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed May 16 09:22:35 2012 I think MWAA nailed it on the architecture for the station at the airport.Ripped these from Refined Locally Preferred Alternative Section 106 Determination of Effects Report: Historic Architecture (3.03 MB PDF file).  Looking northeast across Saarinen Circle.  Looking northwest across Saarinen Circle.  Platform looking west.  3D section at pedestrian tunnel The station will also have 4 elevators, instead of the now standard 2 and 4 escalators between the mezzanine and the platform, no stairs.  Plan mezzanine. The rest of the documents can be had at Project Resources Phase II. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by chud1 on Wed May 16 15:20:15 2012, in response to WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Sand Box John on Wed May 16 09:22:35 2012. excellent.chud1 |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 16 16:28:07 2012, in response to WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Sand Box John on Wed May 16 09:22:35 2012. Thanks for posting. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Train2104 on Wed May 16 18:17:12 2012, in response to WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Sand Box John on Wed May 16 09:22:35 2012. No stairs = bad idea. It has been scientifically proven that walking up/down an escalator that is shut down isn't easy or healthy. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 16 18:47:25 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Train2104 on Wed May 16 18:17:12 2012. Link to scientific proof? |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Wed May 16 19:09:29 2012, in response to WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Sand Box John on Wed May 16 09:22:35 2012. Im perplexed as to why the station is not at ground level, it seems there is enough land for the train to go from Elevated to ground level back to Elevated structure before encountering any roads, perhaps one of the locals can show me the area of the airport where the proposed station is to be located within the airport. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by WillD on Thu May 17 00:25:00 2012, in response to WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Sand Box John on Wed May 16 09:22:35 2012. No elevators, no escalators, no stairs. Just install ramps. Anything else ends up being a pain in the ass. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 07:26:19 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Train2104 on Wed May 16 18:17:12 2012. No stairs = bad idea.Did you look at the rendering? There will be 4 escalators and 4 elevators. The reason why there are no stairs is because the vertical rise between mezzanine and the platform is in the neighborhood 60'. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 08:04:09 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by ClearAspect on Wed May 16 19:09:29 2012. I'm perplexed as to why the station is not at ground level, it seems there is enough land for the train to go from Elevated to ground level back to Elevated structure before encountering any roads, perhaps one of the locals can show me the area of the airport where the proposed station is to be located within the airport.The elevated ascends from grade to elevated north of Aviation Drive, passes over the eastbound lanes of the the Dulles Access Road, over Aviation Drive, curves 90 degrees to the west passes over all lanes of the Dulles Access Road then into the station. The running distance from the abutment in the median of the Dulles Access Road to Aviation Drive is 1,105'. The running distance from Aviation Drive to the east end of the platform is 1,397'.  Approach renderings         John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 08:13:53 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by WillD on Thu May 17 00:25:00 2012. No elevators, no escalators, no stairs. Just install ramps. Anything else ends up being a pain in the ass.That ramp would be pretty long as the vertical rise between the mezzanine and the platform is roughly 60'. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu May 17 08:27:30 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Train2104 on Wed May 16 18:17:12 2012. While I would agree with you for almost all of Metro's other stations, the airport station is probably the one exception where moving stairs are better than the fixed kind. Unlike downtown stations the Airport will probably not handle peak period crush crowds and most people using it will be encumbered with heavy bags. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu May 17 08:28:21 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by WillD on Thu May 17 00:25:00 2012. Ramps? Are they building a new Redskins stadium at the airport to justify such peak load capacity? |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 17 08:37:33 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 08:04:09 2012. Wow, looks like this could complement the airport terminal architecture really nicely. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Thu May 17 09:22:43 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 08:04:09 2012. Nice, thank you for providing the information, now I see why. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 09:39:40 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 17 08:37:33 2012. Wow, looks like this could complement the airport terminal architecture really nicely.Being the Harry Weese purest that I am when it come to metrorail station architecture, this is a really good exception to that belief. I hope in the end frames that hold the glazing are not as busy as what is shown in the renderings. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 10:00:56 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by ClearAspect on Thu May 17 09:22:43 2012. Nice, thank you for providing the information, now I see why.You should have a look at the various document at Project Resources Phase II, in particular: Refined Locally Preferred Alternative Section 106 Determination of Effects Report: Historic Architecture (3.03 MB PDF file) This one has the accompanying text and some more graphics. WMATA General Plans (4.52 MB PDF file) This one shows the alignment easement of the entire length of the elevated on the airport property. Environmental Constraints Mapping (April 2012) – Sheet 7 (2.54 MB PDF file) This one shows the alignment on either side of the airport station in less detail then the one above. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Thu May 17 10:36:09 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 10:00:56 2012. Thank you, for all the links, I got a lot of reading to do.On on the subject though of the station, my problem with the current style of Airport to Rail connections (in general) is that the station is usually so far from the terminal that it detracts from anyone really using it. No one wants to do a long walk, even with moving walkways with luggage. I've always been a proponent of building subway stations directly underneath the terminals or built into new terminals directly so that as soon as the passenger leaves the train that passenger is already within the confines of the terminal they need. Now some might say thats a security problem, but I believe thats when you truly make rail the #1 option for people because its the first thing they see. When I used to the Airtrain at JFK the walk from the terminal to the station took nearly 7 minutes. I wonder what the time walking from the terminal to the proposed location of the station is. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 17 12:25:52 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by ClearAspect on Thu May 17 10:36:09 2012. my problem with the current style of Airport to Rail connections (in general) is that the station is usually so far from the terminal Different location options for this station were studied and the decision process was followed pretty closely here on SubChat. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 13:57:27 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by ClearAspect on Thu May 17 10:36:09 2012. On on the subject though of the station, my problem with the current style of Airport to Rail connections (in general) is that the station is usually so far from the terminal that it detracts from anyone really using it. No one wants to do a long walk, even with moving walkways with luggage. I've always been a proponent of building subway stations directly underneath the terminals or built into new terminals directly so that as soon as the passenger leaves the train that passenger is already within the confines of the terminal they need.The whole issue boiled down to cost. This project has been chasing ways to cut costs sense the DIES was published. The close in subway option was thrown out because of cost. The close in surface / elevated options were thrown out because of the effect it would have on the historical landmark that the main is and the disruption to airline passenger access during construction. The daytime parking garage is a further walk from the main terminal then the metrorail station. The employee parking and long term parking lots require a shuttle bus ride to get to the main terminal. If money was not an issue I would have preferred the station in subway at the location from the FEIS (3.29 MB PDF file). Not the design from the FEIS, but a station build to the original Harry Wees design. Now some might say thats a security problem, . . Security was brought up but it was over shadowed cost by costs. . . .but I believe thats when you truly make rail the #1 option for people because its the first thing they see. When I used to the Airtrain at JFK the walk from the terminal to the station took nearly 7 minutes. I wonder what the time walking from the terminal to the proposed location of the station is. It will take less time to walk to the station then it will to walk to the parking garage just north of the station. It will take less time to walk to the station then it will to board the shuttles that service the employee parking and long term parking lots. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by mshull on Thu May 17 15:47:55 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 10:00:56 2012. What are they smoking with such a short canopy? Extend the canopy the ENTIRE length of the platform!"Welcome to D.C., you have to stand outside in the snow/rain for a train." "You too, train operators!" |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Thu May 17 18:18:48 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 08:04:09 2012. I guess it will have full length trains 8 cars or what have you? |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 22:28:14 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by mshull on Thu May 17 15:47:55 2012. What are they smoking with such a short canopy? Extend the canopy the ENTIRE length of the platform!None of the stations as originally built have canopies that extend the full length of the platform. The only station that does is National Airport, and that happened when the second entrance was added when MWAA rebuilt the north terminal. All canopies cover at least half the length of the 600' platform. Left half new, right half original. The station designs from the DEIS for the DCMP had provision that would allow the extension of the canopies to the full length of the platform. Like many of the things that were done to reduce costs that provision was eliminated. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 22:33:53 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Thu May 17 18:18:48 2012. I guess it will have full length trains 8 cars or what have you?All station platforms on WMATA are 600', 8 X 75'. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Thu May 17 23:46:51 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 17 12:25:52 2012. I'm guilty of being interested too late. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by WillD on Fri May 18 00:40:57 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Sand Box John on Thu May 17 08:04:09 2012. Why are the renderings given from the point of view of a driver? This is a transit project, so why is being illustrated from such an autocentric viewpoint? What ultimately matters is how this structure interacts with the pedestrians and transit users who will use it. But then with the transit infrastructure being held at arms' length to preserve their precious parking lots I guess we know exactly where those people rank. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri May 18 03:36:56 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by WillD on Fri May 18 00:40:57 2012. But you are also dealing with a major architectural landmark that people are accustomed to seeing as they drive around the parking lots to reach that landmark, and therefore, it is important that the station complements the airport terminal. There were images from inside the station that seem to invoke an image similar to the interior of the airport terminal too. As Sand Box John posted elsewhere in this thread, and I agree with him, although neither one of us is thrilled by the extent to which these new stations move away from the Harry Weese designs of the original stations, they did a good job with this one. And it does matter how it looks from a car in some ways as much as it will look to the subway passengers themselves. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri May 18 07:49:31 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by WillD on Fri May 18 00:40:57 2012. Why are the renderings given from the point of view of a driver? This is a transit project, so why is being illustrated from such an autocentric viewpoint? What ultimately matters is how this structure interacts with the pedestrians and transit users who will use it. But then with the transit infrastructure being held at arms' length to preserve their precious parking lots I guess we know exactly where those people rank.The Eero Saarinen designed main terminal at Washington Dulles Airport International Airport is on the National Register of Historic Places. The document these renderings came from pertains to the requirement of complying with the National Historic Preservation Act of 1966 as amended through 1992, Public Law 102-575. The renderings simply show what effect the elevated will have on the view of the main terminal from the access road on approach to the airport. Next time I am out that way I will try to get some pictures of the main terminal from the same locations so you can see what it looks like today. I will also try to get some pictures from the garage so you can see what the view will look like from the station platform. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri May 18 09:26:49 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Sand Box John on Fri May 18 07:49:31 2012. Next time I am out that way I will try to get some pictures of the main terminal from the same locations so you can see what it looks like today. I will also try to get some pictures from the garage so you can see what the view will look like from the station platform. That will be awesome. Before and after photos rock! |
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Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri May 18 09:36:49 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: DCMP Renderings of the station at the airport, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri May 18 09:26:49 2012. That will be awesome. Before and after photos rock!The angle of the view of the various renderings are show on page 23 of the Refined Locally Preferred Alternative Section 106 Determination of Effects Report: Historic Architecture (3.03 MB PDF file). John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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