Home  Maps  About

Home > SubChat

[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]

[1 2]

< Previous Page  

Page 2 of 2

 

(1156652)

view threaded

Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question

Posted by Fisk ave Jim on Mon May 14 20:05:15 2012, in response to Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question, posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 14 18:49:46 2012.

"The electrics' operating costs are still way lower than the dual-mode trains "

I disagree. Once you factor the maintenance of the rail, cables,substations, track dept expenses( broken brackets, etc) & oh yes, the cost of fossil fuels that run the substations, maintenance of transmission lines, it starts to add up.
Then theres the added cost of labor expense for switching out the M series cars for their more frequent inspections neccessary, not to mention the cost of labor incurred for the actual inspections.

Then theres the weather. 3d rail powered trains are the first to take the
hit in bad weather..

An lastly, the cost of litigation incurred for the occasional drunk fisherman that fries himself & his catch on a late Sunday afternoon while making his last trip, over 700 volts & appx 7000 amps.

(1156654)

view threaded

Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 14 20:09:56 2012, in response to Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question, posted by Fisk ave Jim on Mon May 14 20:05:15 2012.

I disagree. Once you factor the maintenance of the rail, cables,substations, track dept expenses (broken brackets, etc) & oh yes, the cost of fossil fuels that run the substations, maintenance of transmission lines, it starts to add up

The heavier dual-mode locomotives drive up the costs of the rail more than the MUs would; and to get the length of train with push-pulls that matches MUs, you're going to need two of those dual-modes. Metro-North hasn't embraced their plan to bring back all-electric locos just yet, too. You've also got the costs of transporting diesel fuel to the locomotive fueling pads; once you go all-electric, those are gone.

Then theres the weather. 3d rail powered trains are the first to take the hit in bad weather

I don't know if that's universal. PATCO kept running during a blizzard recently.

An lastly, the cost of litigation incurred for the occasional drunk fisherman that fries himself & his catch on a late Sunday afternoon while making his last trip, over 700 volts & appx 7000 amps

Sounds more like a call to switch to overhead electrification.

(1156659)

view threaded

Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 14 20:35:32 2012, in response to Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon May 14 06:02:14 2012.

any changes in rules are direct results of fatalities. need I say more ?


(1156688)

view threaded

Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question

Posted by seabeachexpress on Mon May 14 22:31:54 2012, in response to Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun May 13 20:32:12 2012.

I remember in 1964 there was an express in peak hour that Peekskill was the last stop. I saw it once or twice with 2 RS3's. After passengers were all off, it backed out of the station and must have waited in the middle track for a tow back to Harmon.

(1156727)

view threaded

Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question

Posted by merrick1 on Tue May 15 06:50:34 2012, in response to Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question, posted by Fisk ave Jim on Mon May 14 20:05:15 2012.

How you figure there is fossil fuel involved in running substations? AC at whatever voltage in. 700 volts DC out. The AC comes from PASNY's hydro plants at Niagara Falls.

(1156804)

view threaded

Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question

Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue May 15 16:14:35 2012, in response to Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun May 13 20:29:07 2012.

I don't know how long this practice was around but when I was riding the Hudson regularly back in '83, the connecting service from Croton to Poughkeepsie on Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings was usually 2 Budd cars (SPVs). The first (north) one made Garrison for its first stop; the second made Croton North, Crugers, Montrose and Peekskill. The last 2 runs were a single Budd that made all stops.

(1156808)

view threaded

Re: An Historical Hudson Line Question

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 15 16:46:39 2012, in response to Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon May 14 16:27:19 2012.

You're going to have to get over your "carbon" hangup and actually study the science rather than let politicians mold your thinking. We're more threatened by particulate emissions that poison us acutely (something that has been greatly curtailed and even eliminated in recent years) than any gas whose atmospheric concentration is in the parts per billion and doesn't have the kind of atmospheric heating potential that politicians and pseudoscientists claim, especially in light of its UV absorption capacity. (Carbon dioxide and methane both.)

That said, I'm pro-electrification myself, especially in light of the thermodynamics and sheer efficiency. Thermal efficiency of diesel-electric locomotives is remarkable (way more than double that of road vehicles with internal-combustion engines), but it ends up hitting a wall in terms of sheer power compared to all-electric traction. There may be some territorial issues to settle if external companies set up the catenary wire systems (which would save the railroads infrastructure costs), but ultimately it'd be the same as buying fuel from outside vendors for "diseasels".

(1156853)

view threaded

Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question

Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Tue May 15 23:10:56 2012, in response to Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue May 15 16:14:35 2012.

At the same time, MN also was using a single or two Budd SPVs for the awful connecting service at Suffern for what little off peak service they had for the Port Jervis Line - and the 'peak' service wasn't much better. This was right after the abandonment of the old Erie Main.

Those Budd units were very very um...shaky.. going over the Moodna....

(1156879)

view threaded

Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 16 05:18:27 2012, in response to Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Tue May 15 23:10:56 2012.

I remember them well. Me and my buddies used to take the subway from Brooklyn, go to Manhattan for the Hudson Tubes (we never called it PATH)to Hoboken for the PJ train. Then we would have to get on the Budds at Suffern to Tuxedo, where we would get off to go camping. Those Budds were like buses on steel wheels, at least they had a RFW.

(1156908)

view threaded

Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question

Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed May 16 12:58:24 2012, in response to Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 16 05:18:27 2012.

Maybe the rails on the Hudson were in better shape. I don't recall the Budds riding any differently than the other rolling stock between Beacon and Croton. They were pretty zippy, too...probably because it was just one car versus 5 or 6 coaches with a loco.

(1156928)

view threaded

Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question

Posted by randyo on Wed May 16 15:02:10 2012, in response to Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 16 05:18:27 2012.

The only Budds I remember being on all had full width cabs. Are you saying that the engineers didn't pull the window shade down across the cab window when you rode them?

(1157003)

view threaded

Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu May 17 05:47:52 2012, in response to Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question, posted by randyo on Wed May 16 15:02:10 2012.

I could be mistaken as I'm talking about 30 years ago but I definately remember looking out the front window. Not sure if it was a full cab with the shade open or not.

(1157226)

view threaded

Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question

Posted by randyo on Fri May 18 14:55:00 2012, in response to Re: A Historical Hudson Line Question, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu May 17 05:47:52 2012.

It may have been a full cab with the shade not pulled down. I remember riding an old NYC ACMU which ad a full cab but the engineer left the shade up giving me a RFW. I've also noticed that on occasion SEPTA and NJT engineers run with the cab door window uncovered.

[1 2]

< Previous Page  

Page 2 of 2

 

[ Return to the Message Index ]