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Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 20:56:07 2012

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Yes, I rode SkyTrain, but then that's the main reason that any respectable railfan would visit the city. SkyTrain for those who don't know is the local railway network composed of three lines, one of which operates in a weird loop. Complementing this network is extensive bus network with electric trolley buses (trackless trolleys for SEPTA types), a ferry across the Burrard Inlet, and a dinky peak-service only commuter rail line to towns in the Frasier Valley.

Admittedly, riding SkyTrain can rock one's foundation. Firstly, it admittedly blows away the notion of what constitutes a subway, how said subway should operate, and the tradeoffs that come with aiming for this type of network, decisions that admittedly haunt not just transit planners in the Vancouver area, but also planners and administrators around the world and railfans. Some would argue that systems like SkyTrain are not "real" subways, but if you're running full blown grade separation and running 4 car sets at 225 ft or so at two minute headways, are we dealing with a subway system or should these systems like Docklands Light Railway get dumped into so called intermediate systems that aren't light rail systems or subway systems? In turn, if one is building a new rail based transit network for a city, should we go with a classic human operated rapid transit network, a cheaper lightrail/stadtbahn network, or should one simply ape Vancouver and aim for a fully automated metro? After riding SkyTrain in full, I'm sold on the idea of fully automated, and SkyTrain proves that you don't need platform doors for that to work nor giant stations with 600 ft platforms in huge caverns to get high quality service given that they're running at two minute headways at peak on the Expo Line, and even though the line between what constitutes a "subway" is rather blurry, SkyTrain is certainly a "subway" compared to a proper Stadtbahn system, and the consists are only one hundred feet short of average European metro system consists. Mind you, some would argue that for nearly the same investment, the people of Vancouver could have had a light rail or streetcar network that covered far more of the city, a decision that's influencing the potential future extension of the Millenium line to the University of British Columbia.

As for the stations, the Expo line stations reek of 1980s elements, while the Millenium Line stations are a testament to excellent design, and the Canada Line stations are simple, but well executed modern designs with the only downside being that the DBOM that built the line cut corners and the 2 car stations are far too small for the rapid growth in ridership.

As for the city of Vancouver, I must say that it's one of the best cities that I've visited. Downtown is marked with modern highrise condos which if evoke a sense that the city is the "city of the future", which admittedly contrasts with the mountains to the north that can dominate certain views of the cityscape. Despite the high intensity development downtown or around certain SkyTrain stations, the rest of the city isn't that dense, but again like Portland, it feels like Queens with some outlying areas feeling suburbanish, but not too whacked out like a Sunbelt suburb. But then, I've always preferred Canadian urban planning over American planning. Mind you, one should note Vancouver is a city with much of it's growth in the post war period, so it's not going to feel as historic when compared to Northeastern cities, or for a Canadian comparison, Montreal or Halifax. It's an excellent planning lesson, but the lessons may be a bit more applicable to cities of similar vintage.

And despite this being SubChat, I'll note that I had my first ride on an ETB. I'll quickly note that it's weird as looks like a bus, and the acceleration is better than your standard diesel bus, and it's quiet except for the AC traction whine, but it still rides likes a bus. And for roadgeeks, despite the city not having any highways that penetrate the core, the various bridges and tunnels around the area are worth visiting as the Lions Gate Bridge is a beautiful pre-war structure which offers beautful views of the city, but can also be contrasted with modern cable stayed design of the Alex Fraser or the extradosed design of the Golden Ears Bridge.

So after writing all of that, I'd have to agree with the former motto of the province. Vancouver is probably one of the best cities that I've visited, and I certainly wouldn't mind moving here. It's a beautiful city surrounded by some of the most beautiful countryside in the world, and it's a functional place where one feels much comfortable when compared to nearby Seattle or Portland. I wish I had a chance to explore more around there, but I wouldn't hesistate going back, and I'd certainly recommend it for anybody looking for a vacation destination or simply a new place to live. As I jokingly point out, Toronto is the city that has spent years trying to be world class, but Vancouver despite being smaller has achieved that status.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by WillD on Sun Apr 29 21:00:50 2012, in response to Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 20:56:07 2012.

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Excellent photos. That first photo shows how much cable stayed bridges, especially those with their support towers in the middle, rob those structures of all their grandeur when viewed from end-on.

What a concept, a fully automated subway system that does not require platform edge doors.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Easy on Sun Apr 29 21:13:50 2012, in response to Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 20:56:07 2012.

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Cool! I think that I'd like Vancouver as well, but I'm curious as to why you felt uncomfortable in Seattle and Portland?

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 21:18:04 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Easy on Sun Apr 29 21:13:50 2012.

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Cool! I think that I'd like Vancouver as well, but I'm curious as to why you felt uncomfortable in Seattle and Portland?

It's Canada. I'm far more at ease there. :-)

Plus, admittedly, there's far less of a certain high crime demographic in Vancouver when compared to those two cities.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Easy on Sun Apr 29 22:21:07 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 21:18:04 2012.

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lol. There are fewer "Canadians" in Vancouver?

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 22:31:17 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Easy on Sun Apr 29 22:21:07 2012.

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lol. There are fewer "Canadians" in Vancouver?

Yup, but then, by American standards, there are very few "Canadians" in Seattle and Portland. Admittedly, I feel different when I go on vacation, but I felt very at ease in Vancouver and less on guard when compared to the other two cities on my trip, and far less on edge when compared to say, Philadelphia or DC.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 29 23:13:40 2012, in response to Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 20:56:07 2012.

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You are entitled to your opinion...

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Easy on Sun Apr 29 23:14:06 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 22:31:17 2012.

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Sounds boring though.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 29 23:17:59 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Easy on Sun Apr 29 23:14:06 2012.

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extremely boring..bland..inane.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by italianstallion on Sun Apr 29 23:30:04 2012, in response to Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 20:56:07 2012.

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Beautiful city, but vapid.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by italianstallion on Sun Apr 29 23:30:59 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by WillD on Sun Apr 29 21:00:50 2012.

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"a fully automated subway system that does not require platform edge doors."

Airtrain JFK?

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by italianstallion on Sun Apr 29 23:34:51 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 22:31:17 2012.

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Wow, 3 racist posts in a row. And it's not even OTChat.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 00:09:04 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by italianstallion on Sun Apr 29 23:34:51 2012.

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Wow, 3 racist posts in a row.

I'm black. :-)

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 00:09:36 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by italianstallion on Sun Apr 29 23:30:04 2012.

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Beautiful city, but vapid.

My report or the city itself?

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by WillD on Mon Apr 30 00:17:21 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by italianstallion on Sun Apr 29 23:30:59 2012.

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To the best of my knowledge all stations on the Airtrain JFK system use platform edge doors. The only other fully automated system I'm aware of which do not use platform edge doors are the Detroit Peoplemover, Kuala Lumpur's Kelana Jaya Line and Nuremburg's U3 line. But then both Detroit and KL's lines are derivatives of the same system used in NYC and Vancouver, and the Nuremburg U3 line uses a very expensive intrusion detection system called RUBIN.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Easy on Mon Apr 30 00:21:00 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by WillD on Mon Apr 30 00:17:21 2012.

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What about Docklands Light Railway? Is that not fully automated?

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 00:24:48 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Easy on Mon Apr 30 00:21:00 2012.

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What about Docklands Light Railway? Is that not fully automated?

Yes, DLR is fully automated. In fact, IIRC, Vancouver SkyTrain and DLR both use SelTrac moving block signalling systems...

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by WillD on Mon Apr 30 00:28:50 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Easy on Mon Apr 30 00:21:00 2012.

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Ah, good point. I forgot that one, and probably a few others. Interesting that they put platform doors on the Jubilee line, but not on the DLR.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 00:29:48 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Easy on Sun Apr 29 23:14:06 2012.

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Sounds boring though.

It's okay, I like being boring. :-)

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Easy on Mon Apr 30 00:50:08 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 00:24:48 2012.

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Automated used to worry me because it was different, but now it seems preferable. Even the LA red/purple lines are mostly automated. I know that the operators have to press a button to start each trip. Not sure how much they do after that.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Easy on Mon Apr 30 00:59:26 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 00:29:48 2012.

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They don't even have a basketball team anymore! :)

Speaking of basketball, did you see that Clippers comeback?!? I read on another forum that Floyd Mayweather had $1.8 million on the Clippers!

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 01:06:36 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 29 23:13:40 2012.

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You are entitled to your opinion...

As we all know, there is no ultimate "best place" on Earth, but I'd agree with people if they suggested that Vancouver is one of the best. New York has its charms, and I'm very reluctant to leave, but Vancouver is a wonderful city.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 01:08:25 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Easy on Mon Apr 30 00:59:26 2012.

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They don't even have a basketball team anymore! :)

That's what NBA League Pass and ample vacation days are for. :-)

Speaking of basketball, did you see that Clippers comeback?

I was watching the game until I became discouraged, and I ended up tuning back in at the last minute to see the Clippers win.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by chud1 on Mon Apr 30 04:30:00 2012, in response to Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 20:56:07 2012.

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5 stars out of 5 stars on pictures and narration.
chud1

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Fred G on Mon Apr 30 06:04:41 2012, in response to Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 20:56:07 2012.

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Wonderful photos and great coverage of the system from a "3rd World Country" :P

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Mon Apr 30 06:22:54 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Easy on Sun Apr 29 23:14:06 2012.

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It's funny how many people equate a low crime rate, a good quality of life, and overall peaceful living as "boring"... :-)

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Apr 30 06:24:11 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 00:09:36 2012.

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Neither. Your viewpoint as an American that Canada is the best place on Earth is to be commended.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Apr 30 06:27:44 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Mon Apr 30 06:22:54 2012.

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I think most people who are Americans would see that as "enviable".

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 30 07:06:57 2012, in response to Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 20:56:07 2012.

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Nice photos. I was in Vancouver nearly 5 years ago and liked riding the various transit options there quite a bit.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Mon Apr 30 07:18:51 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Scrabbleship on Mon Apr 30 06:27:44 2012.

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Maybe, but I know people from The Bronx who once complained to me that Rockville Centre, Long Island (the area by the train station and the stores on Sunrise Highway) was "too quiet" for them. They also said that they need the sounds of sirens (and probably gunshots!) to help them fall asleep at night...

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Apr 30 09:43:40 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Easy on Mon Apr 30 00:50:08 2012.

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I think that the MTA T/Os open and close the doors. When I was out there, they also made station announcements, but I don't know if that still is the case.


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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by vfrt on Mon Apr 30 10:51:49 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Mon Apr 30 07:18:51 2012.

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You can take a moron out of the slums, but you can't take the slums out of the moron. I've heard that from a few people who move to better neighborhoods. Go figure...............

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 30 10:51:55 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 00:09:04 2012.

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OK, my bad.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 11:16:02 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 30 10:51:55 2012.

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OK, my bad.

FWIW, I never meant my comments in a "omg, all black people are dangerous" sense, but if one sees a group of young males with thuggish looking appearance at an empty railway station, would you risk taking out your camera to take photos? Would you walk down an empty, somewhat poorly lit street? I've actually have been followed twice when I have done photography*, so I'm still somewhat jumpy about this issue.

*In the first case, I was at Prospect Park a few years back, but I lucked out by running to the opposite platform and a southbound train popped up immediately. In the second case, I was in what was barely gentrified parts of western Hoboken making my way to the light rail station. I was lucky that a cop was patrolling in the area and ended up shooing them off...

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 30 12:11:08 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by vfrt on Mon Apr 30 10:51:49 2012.

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They have to be if that's their reaction. I certainly don't miss being woken up at 3 am by planes leaving EWR . . .

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by JohnL on Mon Apr 30 12:56:36 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by WillD on Mon Apr 30 00:28:50 2012.

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Only on the new portion of the Jubilee (Westminster-Stratford). The DLR was built considerably earlier than that.

And I’m trying to remember. The DLR is automatic, but there is a staff member on board. I think that he/she pushes a button to close the doors and start the train at each station.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Mon Apr 30 14:45:35 2012, in response to Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 20:56:07 2012.

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nice photos

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by cortelyounext on Mon Apr 30 15:06:31 2012, in response to Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 20:56:07 2012.

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good shooting

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 30 15:35:24 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 11:16:02 2012.

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True, but thugs can be any color.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 30 15:50:28 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 00:09:36 2012.

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I loved your report.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Apr 30 16:51:43 2012, in response to Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 20:56:07 2012.

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Does the SkyTrain only go to the standard terminals or does it get you down to the seaplane terminal as well?

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 20:26:34 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 30 15:35:24 2012.

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True, but thugs can be any color.

That's true. Even downtown Vancouver has a seedy side, and Frankfurt had some scary guys in the "red light" district who tried to get me to go into their scam strip club.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 20:27:44 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 30 15:50:28 2012.

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I loved your report.

Thanks, but I think you'll like Vancouver. Give it a chance! :-)

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 20:39:02 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Apr 30 16:51:43 2012.

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You're on your own for the seaplane terminal at YVR, as those terminals are on the other side of the runway away from the main terminals. IIRC, there is community bus shuttle (read: cutaway) to Bridgeport on the Canada Line.

The other seaplane terminal in Vancouver is at Coal Harbor which is a bit of a hike from Burrard station on Expo & Millenium lines.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by kp5308 on Mon Apr 30 20:42:52 2012, in response to Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 29 20:56:07 2012.

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Nicely done. The B&W work is excellent!

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Easy on Mon Apr 30 21:48:49 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Apr 30 09:43:40 2012.

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I know that they used to close the doors, but I'm not sure if they still do. I'll take a closer look the next time that I ride up front and can see inside. They've had automated announcements for awhile now, but for whatever reason they don't usually use them.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Jersey Mike on Tue May 1 11:51:31 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 30 20:39:02 2012.

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Why would they build an airport peoplemover that doesn't go to the terminals?

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 1 14:16:38 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue May 1 11:51:31 2012.

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Why would they build an airport peoplemover that doesn't go to the terminals?

Because SkyTrain isn't intended to be a peoplemover. There's only one station on the line at the terminus that caters to the main terminals. Once you're off the train, you're expected to walk to your terminal which isn't too much of a walk.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 1 14:25:15 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 1 14:16:38 2012.

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You're taking this way too seriously.

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Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 1 14:35:47 2012, in response to Re: Photos: Vancouver - The Best Place on Earth, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 1 14:25:15 2012.

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You're taking this way too seriously.

I suspect that I missed a joke.

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