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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by LRG5784 on Fri Mar 9 19:07:47 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Mar 8 17:54:33 2012.

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Option 2. A ride that will enable faster service into Manhattan overpowers a one-seat ride that kills time rather than saving it.

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(1143878)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Fri Mar 9 19:15:41 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Mar 9 17:51:13 2012.

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If Lex/53rd is really that horrible then the MTA should make the F train 100% R-160 (E train is 100% R-160) and install glass walls to keep people from falling on the track.
I know it will never happen, but it is one way to have your cake and eat it too.

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(1143879)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by LRG5784 on Fri Mar 9 19:29:05 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Mar 9 17:51:13 2012.

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It was never really proven that 53rd Street could never handle both the (E) and (F). Prior to 2001 things were just fine so if things were to revert to that pattern then I don't really see the problem.

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(1143882)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by J trainloco on Fri Mar 9 19:38:41 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by LRG5784 on Fri Mar 9 19:29:05 2012.

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Prior to 2001 things were not fine, and that was the principal reason for building 63rd street.

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(1143896)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Mar 9 20:37:53 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by LRG5784 on Fri Mar 9 19:29:05 2012.

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I'm not sure, but even now, I don't see ridership going down at that station. Short of doing something radical like adding two side platforms which could be off loading and the center loading only, there doesn't seem to be much space for people to move around on that single platform and being the E and F are the most popular lines for Queens-Manhattan service for QB, they had to be split.

So the only way 53rd will ever see 2 express lines serving it again is if the Queens super express is built giving Queens a new 'trunk' line that can take on the extra capacity and run exclusively thru 63rd St.

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(1143899)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Mar 9 20:46:17 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by E and F and sometimes J on Fri Mar 9 19:15:41 2012.

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Platform doors are not the answer either. They are expensive and limits flexibility. Sure you can try and make all the trains only R160s, but what if there's a need to send an R46 on the F or some other line running 75' car trains runs there because of a reroute?

Also what if the doors break down? Then no one can get off the train or on to it and that'd be worse.

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(1143909)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Fri Mar 9 21:30:25 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Mar 9 20:46:17 2012.

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I understand.
On the Cortlandt thread one of the posters mentioned if there was some engineering difficulty that prevented the WTC Courtlandt connection from ever being built. Your statement about differing car sizes has me thinking about whether the WTC to Cortlandt connection was built to handle 75' cars or 67' BMT standards?


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(1143911)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Mar 9 21:36:04 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by E and F and sometimes J on Fri Mar 9 21:30:25 2012.

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I was under the impression that heading from the WTC station to the Cortlandt one would be almost a 'strait shot'. I don't think car lengths should matter. If there is a curve, they could technically 'shift' the platforms south to accomodate the need for a wider curve. :grasping at straws:

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(1143913)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Fri Mar 9 21:42:30 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Mar 9 21:36:04 2012.

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Hopefully true.

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(1143940)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by PATHman on Sat Mar 10 00:09:56 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by LRG5784 on Fri Mar 9 19:29:05 2012.

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+1000

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(1143957)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Mar 10 03:08:10 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by J trainloco on Fri Mar 9 19:38:41 2012.

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Well..yes,and a way to reach riders who weren't served directly by the subway,serving such nabs south of Queens Blvd or north towards Flushing..while neither routes were built..the provision for them via the bypass is still there..

one day..the MTA might decide to think about the riders outside of Manhattan for subway expansion..

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(1143968)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by MATHA531 on Sat Mar 10 08:28:27 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Mar 9 20:46:17 2012.

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I was very impressed at what they did on the #1 line in Paris....not full size barriers but rather fences that, yes, can be jumped over by somebody determined to do himself or herself in but would prvent accidents of alling onto the tracks....thy can be very flexible and they wouldn't cost all that much given the safety they represent. But as always, any thought of something outside the box in NYC is met by we can't do it (remember all the resistance to something as simple as countdown timers? I listened to peole telling me on this board they aren't necessary that the next train will arrive when it arrives. I wonder how the public feels about countdown timers now which are found on just about every other rapid transit line in the world. Same is true about some sort of barrier at busy stations...it can and should be done.)

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(1143983)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Mar 10 11:25:11 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Mar 9 17:51:13 2012.

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Even with fewer trains running through Lex/53rd now? Before the 63rd connection, 30 tph ran through 53rd (12 E's, 18 F's). Now it's just 23 tph (15 E's, 8 M's) and one of the trains going through there runs shorter trains. Has ridership decreased to a more tolerable level at Lex/53rd over the past 11 years thanks to rerouting the F to 63rd?

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(1143989)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by R30A on Sat Mar 10 12:00:54 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by LRG5784 on Fri Mar 9 19:29:05 2012.

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There were severe problems. Whenever an escalator stopped working at 53/Lex, or even any problem elsewhere which would cause the 53rd street line to get more crowded, the Lex station would become peak direction only. Hell for anyone living in that part of manhattan at the time.

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(1143990)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by R30A on Sat Mar 10 12:02:09 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Mar 10 11:25:11 2012.

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Yes, and tremendously so.

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(1144018)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by PATHman on Sat Mar 10 17:33:10 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Mar 9 17:51:13 2012.

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I'm not going to waste time fighting a losing battle. I know what's fair and what's not.

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(1144058)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by grand concourse on Sat Mar 10 22:40:21 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by R30A on Sat Mar 10 12:00:54 2012.

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+1

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(1144059)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by grand concourse on Sat Mar 10 22:46:13 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by PATHman on Sat Mar 10 17:33:10 2012.

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But it was about safety. The platform simply can't handle the load of that many people at the frequencies both E and F had. I dunno if it is feasible to build two side platforms just to distribute the load of the riders. Basically use the side platforms for loading and the center one for unloading. (which might lead to a different issue being longer dwell times.)
I do hope should the SAS phase 3 be built, they build a full length mezzanine above the current platform because having everyone move to the Lexington av side escalators with trains barreling into the station is an accident waiting to happen.

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(1144060)

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Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work...

Posted by grand concourse on Sat Mar 10 22:55:01 2012, in response to Re: Straphangers to MTA: There's only two way this can possibly work..., posted by J trainloco on Fri Mar 9 17:59:25 2012.

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Exactly.

And especially agreed
"now passengers who absolutely refused to or couldn't take a local but who were not bound for lexington could be separate from riders who absolutely needed 53rd."

F trains are no longer subject to the delays (door holding etc) because riders want to transfer to the 6/Lexington av lines. If they want Lexington av service to and from south of Bleecker (when the connection to the n/b 6 is complete), F riders will no longer need to use 63rd or crowd onto the E at 53rd.

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