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| Re: R-211 some info (1141489) | |
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Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by WillD on Wed Feb 29 02:18:02 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Feb 27 20:03:29 2012. -More usable space on the trainThey could get this out of a 60' car by going to a trainset with full width gangways between individual cars like those found on Bombardier's Movia trains. That also eliminates the inability to move between cars, whether an emergency or no. LUL's new S stock, at 50 feet per car, should provide an excellent example of what the MTA should shoot for in the R211s. |
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| (1142250) | |
Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Feb 29 02:29:32 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Feb 27 21:53:41 2012. very few revenue seatsHow about zero? Until a few years ago, they weren't any seats to sit till near the end of morning rush. The seats stayed folded up and locked. 
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| (1142251) | |
Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by WillD on Wed Feb 29 02:39:11 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Feb 29 02:29:32 2012. But that would require riders with enough brains to weigh the length of their journey against their requirement for a seat and be able to position themselves on the platform accordingly. If Olog imagined that such people existed and were capable of making a decision with so many complex variables, then his stalwartly anti-intellectual stance would clearly require him to hate them. Please don't make him hate theoretical Japanese rail passengers in addition to the millions of other groups for which he's already proclaimed his hatred. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1142252) | |
Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Feb 29 02:39:38 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Feb 27 23:23:18 2012. I think the Yamanote line and the Keihin-Tohoku line had 6-door cars at different positions in the train. With platform doors, they will have to have the same spacing. Also the latter runs 10 car trains instead of 11 but that doesn't seem to be an issue. |
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| (1142256) | |
Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Feb 29 02:54:20 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by WillD on Wed Feb 29 02:11:56 2012. Will, I'm still hoping that you're going to turn that information over tot he FBI real soon. |
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| (1142298) | |
Re: R-179 order saga |
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Posted by Outside the Box on Wed Feb 29 11:17:19 2012, in response to Re: R-179 order saga, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Feb 27 20:54:28 2012. 67' cars with 5 sets of doors per side to decrease dwell time.51' truck centers. Interior arrangement similar to R110B to improve passenger movement within cars and interior space utilization. Covered vestibules that allow safe movement between cars while in motion. 8 car sets for BMT eastern division platforms. 9 car sets for 600' BMT southern division platforms. 10 car sets for IND 660' IND platforms. Add Li-ion capacitor for low capacity regenerative braking. This will allow train systems (HVAC, lighting) to remain powered for extended periods of time during power outages. It also reduces the peak power demands on the electrical system during acceleration from stop. A larger system would allow a train to crawl into the next station during blackouts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_capacitor Local door controls (locked/unlocked from conductor/TO cab) that passengers activate that reduces door opening and closing, and heating/cooling losses. Sophisticated door controls that allow selective door opening/unlocking of all doors from one point. This allows trains to safely use platforms that are shorter than the train length. |
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| (1142304) | |
Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by R211 on Wed Feb 29 11:55:36 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by Train Dude on Wed Feb 29 02:54:20 2012. I'm innocent. |
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| (1142320) | |
Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by 5119 on Wed Feb 29 14:00:54 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by randyo on Tue Feb 28 21:24:52 2012. I am familiar with the old Broad street cars in Philly. Their trucks were mounted close to the ends like the R 1/9's. The tunnels were designed for 67 foot cars. Their bulkhead doors always remained opened. |
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| (1142343) | |
Re: R-179 order saga |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 29 16:19:33 2012, in response to Re: R-179 order saga, posted by Outside the Box on Wed Feb 29 11:17:19 2012. ( 8 car sets for BMT eastern division platforms.)Very tight, not doable. The Standards had their doors far more off the ends of the car. Would not fit into Metro Ave. (10 car sets for IND 660' IND platforms). That's the Queens IND via 8th or 6th only to Church or Euclid Ave. I don't think the line from Concourse or Wash Hts ever had 11 car Arnine trains. Maybe the E could accomodate, nothing else. |
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Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Feb 29 16:59:52 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by 5119 on Wed Feb 29 14:00:54 2012. Thanks a lot, I wasn't sure about that but I guess since the Broad St subway was built after the BMT, it looks like Philly's planners took that into consideration. The MTA tried again to operate a stretch car on the NYCTS in the form of the R-44s 46, and 68s and that required shaving back portions of the bench walls in many of the tunnels and of course locking bulkhead doors between cars. It looks like the MTA has given up on 75 ft cars hopefully for good. |
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| (1142355) | |
Re: R-179 order saga |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Feb 29 18:00:06 2012, in response to Re: R-179 order saga, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 29 16:19:33 2012. Actually, from what I was told, the stations between ENY and Euclid are only 600 ft long so they can't handle 11 car trains. |
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| (1142358) | |
Re: R-179 order saga |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 29 18:56:57 2012, in response to Re: R-179 order saga, posted by randyo on Wed Feb 29 18:00:06 2012. I think the E did run 11 car trains for a while in the 1950's or 1960's, and it predated the CC out to the Rockaways during the rush. |
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| (1142376) | |
Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by J trainloco on Wed Feb 29 20:49:53 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Feb 27 20:03:29 2012. -The .001% of the time there is an emergency,passengers will need to wait until a crew member unlocks the doors from the cab,or push out the (designed to be broken) storm door window.With the MTA's move to permanently unitized trains, the next major car order need not suffer from this. Cars could have open gangways between them which would allow safe passage between cars even outside of emergencies, something NYCT currently disallows. The only reason to NOT do this would be if you made the new fleet similar to the original R46s and allowed them to be rearranged as necessary. A lot of people here, advocate 60' cars, but 75' cars make a lot more sense fiscally. |
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| (1142377) | |
Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by J trainloco on Wed Feb 29 20:59:50 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by randyo on Wed Feb 29 16:59:52 2012. It looks like the MTA has given up on 75 ft cars hopefully for good.I sure hope not! As pointed out by Henry R32, 75' cars are substantially better than 60' cars in many ways! Both procurement and operating costs are significantly lower. And with the MTA's move to unitized trains, mixing car fleets between the BMT east and the rest of the B division seems to be a thing of the past. Name one advantage that a 5 car set of R160's has over a 4 car set of future 75' cars with 5 doors per car. |
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| (1142387) | |
Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Feb 29 21:37:04 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by J trainloco on Wed Feb 29 20:59:50 2012. I can name an advantage!They provide more construction and maintenance jobs, which stimulates the economy! |
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| (1142388) | |
Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Feb 29 21:37:04 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by J trainloco on Wed Feb 29 20:59:50 2012. I can name an advantage!They provide more construction and maintenance jobs, which stimulates the economy! |
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| (1142400) | |
Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Feb 29 23:23:57 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by J trainloco on Wed Feb 29 20:49:53 2012. Cars could have open gangways between them which would allow safe passage between cars even outside of emergenciesIf the overhang is too long, you won't be able to do this for basically the same reason they didn't allow passing between cars on 75' stock and the Standards. I don't know the exact limit where it becomes unsafe or unfeasible though. |
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| (1142404) | |
Re: R-179 order saga |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Wed Feb 29 23:33:21 2012, in response to Re: R-179 order saga, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 27 18:45:49 2012. ah, I see. Thanks |
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Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Feb 29 23:36:44 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by J trainloco on Wed Feb 29 20:59:50 2012. You mean besides the obvious ones like they can run on the Eastern Division if reformed into four car sets or platforms lengthened? |
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Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Mar 1 00:10:07 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Feb 29 23:36:44 2012. You mean besides the obvious ones like they can run on the Eastern Division if reformed into four car sets or platforms lengthened?We have PLENTY of R160s that can do that, if it came down to it. Not every car needs to be able to run on the eastern division. The only likelyhood of us ever seeing the "mainline" R160s on the eastern division is either if they decide on 5 car trains (for example another extended Willy B outage) or a minor platform lengthening for the Eastern Division and the C to become 9 car lines, with 5/4 sets mixing. |
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| (1142456) | |
Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 1 13:36:55 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Mar 1 00:10:07 2012. Another wrinkle that some of you hadn't thought of is that if the MTA ever decides to install platform doors at any of its station, the car fleet on each respective division has to be absolutely, positively and completely standardized. Since Eastern Division and IND lines do operate jointly it doesn't do any good to tray to segregate car types of different lengths by line since it can never be anticipated when and if a train from a "75 ft car" line might have to be rerouted to a line that uses 60 ft cars and vice versa. The 75 ft car concept is only good on a system that was specifically designed for them which the NYCTS was not so the return to the IND standard 60 ft car is the only viable option. |
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| (1142458) | |
Re: R-179 order saga |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 1 13:42:59 2012, in response to Re: R-179 order saga, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 29 18:56:57 2012. By the time the Rockaways opened, Es no longer ran 11 car trains. Prior to 1956 Bkln E service terminated at ENY except for a few trains that ran through to Euclid to lay up at Pitkin Yd. Additionally, 11 car trains on the IND operated with a C/R in charge and a rear guard so that the few E trains that operated to Euclid prior to 1956 didn't open the doors on the 11th car at the 600 ft stations. |
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| (1142464) | |
Re: R-179 order saga |
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Posted by Outside the Box on Thu Mar 1 14:19:45 2012, in response to Re: R-179 order saga, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 29 16:19:33 2012. That is the whole point of advanced door controls that can selectively open, close, unlock and unlock doors. You can have stations that are shorter than the trains, and safely open/unlock ONLY the doors that open onto the platform from the train operator/conductor cabs. |
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| (1142493) | |
Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Mar 1 18:58:32 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 1 13:36:55 2012. Platform doors will probably never happen during the lifetime of the R-211. If they were seriously planning them, I'd imagine the #7 and L would be the first to get it, and figure the time from proposal to shovel in the ground to completion on MTA projects, we would have needed a proposal by now for them to be done in 10 years. Then they would look into expanding the project to other lines, and if they did decide to, the A division would take them long enough that the R-211 will be retired.A "well we might want to do $UNLIKELY_THING" is not a reason to spend exactly %25 more on procurement and maintenance on a close to billion dollar contract. |
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| (1142497) | |
Re: R-179 order saga |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Mar 1 19:09:22 2012, in response to Re: R-179 order saga, posted by Outside the Box on Thu Mar 1 14:19:45 2012. I agree with you, but the MTA didn't even let F trains stop at the 300' Smith/9th platform for an irrational fear of the conductor opening the whole train by accident...But yes, since the trains theoretically know where they are now, they can be programmed to pre-select which doors can open at which stops. The stop marker for 11 at 600' stations could be 30' in the tunnel, and half the first and last cars can open. |
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| (1142509) | |
Re: R-179 order saga |
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Posted by Outside the Box on Thu Mar 1 20:57:33 2012, in response to Re: R-179 order saga, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Mar 1 19:09:22 2012. That could be part of ATO. The only reason for crew aboard in that case is to monitor the train and passengers. |
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Re: R-211 some info |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Mar 2 16:05:02 2012, in response to Re: R-211 some info, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Mar 1 18:58:32 2012. Moving platform doors that adjust to different door configurations are under development in Japan. By the time NYCT gets platform doors, they will most likely be in production. |
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| (1142677) | |
VIDEO of NYC Subway Car Program Update presentation for R-160, R-188, R-211 |
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Posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Mar 2 19:21:58 2012, in response to R-160 (warrenty); R-211 (little update); R-188 (little more info on 11 car link), posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Feb 24 14:58:39 2012. 00:37 - presentation starts 01:15 - R-188 presentation.... w/ bunch of board members Q&A 10:07 - R-160 warranty 11:27 - R-211 presentation 12:33 - Board member Andrew Albert mentions about R-179....MTA says "we are sensitive in the portion of the procurement". 13:10 - presentation ends. The rest of the video is bunch of crap$hit projects.... |
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Re: VIDEO of NYC Subway Car Program Update presentation for R-160, R-188, R-211 |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sat Mar 3 02:23:44 2012, in response to VIDEO of NYC Subway Car Program Update presentation for R-160, R-188, R-211, posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Mar 2 19:21:58 2012. Cooool.They mentioned CBTC's "max" TPH. Someone here should love that nugget of info.... |
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Re: R-179 order saga |
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Posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Mar 3 02:39:13 2012, in response to Re: R-179 order saga, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Mar 1 19:09:22 2012. but the MTA didn't even let F trains stop at the 300' Smith/9th platform for an irrational fear of the conductor opening the whole train by accident...I recall a time when a C/R on an R142 opened the whole train at the old South Ferry station... |
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Re: R-179 order saga |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sat Mar 3 03:13:32 2012, in response to Re: R-179 order saga, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Mar 3 02:39:13 2012. Yup. And after that, if it wasn't a (1) train, it wasn't allowed to stop at South Ferry. |
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Re: VIDEO of NYC Subway Car Program Update presentation for R-160, R-188, R-211 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jul 20 19:20:09 2012, in response to Re: VIDEO of NYC Subway Car Program Update presentation for R-160, R-188, R-211, posted by G1Ravage on Sat Mar 3 02:23:44 2012. 28-30 TPH? CBTC?Hell..they ran more trains without it back in the days..90 second headways! |
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