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| (1103533) | |
Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Komsomolskaya on Wed Sep 21 10:59:39 2011 I made this timeline of rapid transit in the New York City area, with maps showing the system every five years 1875-2010. I feel the Public Service Railway's Hoboken Elevated, which operated 1886-1949, ought to be included, but have found online information on it to be very scarce. It sounds like the elevated originally only ran to Palisade Ave; when was it extended along Central Ave to the incline near Journal Sq? What services ran on the elevated, what were their routes once they left it, and in which years did they exist? Any relevant information would be appreciated. |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Sep 21 11:02:55 2011, in response to Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Komsomolskaya on Wed Sep 21 10:59:39 2011. This is a subject I've long wanted more info on. There's a dearth of online info related, to the point that I didn't even know this system existed until someone posted a couple of pictures here last year. |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by The Silence on Wed Sep 21 11:59:54 2011, in response to Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Komsomolskaya on Wed Sep 21 10:59:39 2011. you do know you forgot the Newark Broad st extentsion on the Newark City Subway/Newark Light rail. |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Mellow One on Wed Sep 21 12:03:20 2011, in response to Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Sep 21 11:02:55 2011. I would suggest looking for PSNJ WWII or Post WWII Era (pre 1950) Time tables. |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Mellow One on Wed Sep 21 13:01:44 2011, in response to Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Komsomolskaya on Wed Sep 21 10:59:39 2011. Obviously, your Time Line Map is a labor of Love of Rapid Transit History. There were many significant extensions and expansions of Rapid Transit Service in Manhattan almost every year from 1875 on through the turn of the century and up until the end of the Dual Contracts Era in 1920. The last Expansion of the Manhattan El System was the Webster Ave extension of the 3rd Ave El, which opened in 1920. You faithfully detailed that occurance in your map. The 3rd Ave El GCT Shuttle, which was the original end of the line in 1878, lasted until 1922.Perhaps, in the future, you may include hotspots on you map that would link to images and/or expanded text that depicts or describes the events that occurred at a given location. I am attempting to link my image libraries to my Time Traveling Web sites for the Manhattan Els. I am still loading images and writing associated text. I worked on the Bergen Cutoff last night. I only saw the unused structure once from the 3rd Ave El 149th St Station before the cutoff structure was removed. See "https://picasaweb.google.com/116363262722377355677/NYC2ndAveEl#5654544224206745410". On the Brooklyn side, I consentrate my efforts on documenting the Early (pre Dual Contract) El routes. See "http://mellowone.webs.com/earlybrooklynelroutes.htm". I was not able to venture out to New Jersey on my own until the late 50's. So, that was too late to see anything but the Newark Subway and trolley line. Later, in early 60s, the late Roger Arcara and I walked across the bridge that was the original H&M ROW to the Park Place terminal. I can not remember what happened to the pix from that trip. Of course, a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. I came across this image, which is a memorial to my mother, who worked in that building during WWII before I was born. Thank you for your efforts and all the best to you, |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Michael Wares on Wed Sep 21 14:58:39 2011, in response to Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Komsomolskaya on Wed Sep 21 10:59:39 2011. I passed this question on to Joe Brennan, and he replied:1886 Hoboken Terminal to Palisades Ave. Elevated gate cars, cable power. via Observer Highway, prw. Powerhouse at Palisades Ave. 1892 Extended to Pavonia Ave, with ramps at Hoboken Terminal, Palisades Ave, Pavonia Ave. Trolley cars, electric overhead. via prw, Central Ave, prw. 1910 New large Hoboken Terminal elevated terminal. 1949 Closed. A little-known new page by David Pirmann has some great pictures. http://world.nycsubway.org/us/psnj/hoboken_elevated.html |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Joe on Wed Sep 21 15:44:51 2011, in response to Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Michael Wares on Wed Sep 21 14:58:39 2011. Thanks for exploring this topic. Please allow some narrative from someone who enjoyed riding this el as a youngster, age about ten, exploration led by his Dad. In my postwar era, the upstairs loop terminal in Hoboken clearly had seen better days. However, the Jackson car left there, bringing us to truly friendly cousins on Winfield Avenue, Greenville. The car would make two or three stops at low-level wooden platforms above Observer Highway, then climb that awesome trestle to the heights, aiming straight up a cliff. (The ascent is again replicated by an elevator at HBLR Ninth Street station.)---- At the top, several routes would immediately take a small drop to Palisades Avenue: the busy Union City line, the Weehawken route, and I think (but could be wrong) part-time routes labeled Summit and Oakland. Edward Hamm's book, The Public Service Trolley Lines in New Jersey, excels in thoroughness and presentation. ----- Our Jackson car would turn south over Central Avenue, adjacent to a reservoir. (At this point I took some photos with my new FedFlash camera, blurry results.) ----- Descending near the jail, it would wind to the loop at Journal Square and the Hudson Tubes. We then proceeded south on Bergen Avenue, zig-zagging onto Jackson Avenue (now Martin Luther King Drive), go through a few signaled passing sidings and alight a few blocks before Gates Avenue. Somewhere the operator flipped the sign to "Pay as You Leave." ----- Route 87 bus now takes about 46 minutes for the trip. I wonder whether the el made the streetcar quicker. ----- One night the pole jumped near Communipaw Avenue. Dad remarked that streetcars entering Union City had to carry a lit red lantern high in the rear window for safety if that happened. Joe |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Sep 21 15:47:20 2011, in response to Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Sep 21 11:02:55 2011. Go to www.bn.com online, type in, "The Public Service Trolley Lines in New Jersey", and hit "search". There is a copy for sale for $65. It's well worth the price and will answer any questions you have about their services and structures! |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Evan on Wed Sep 21 19:37:43 2011, in response to Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Komsomolskaya on Wed Sep 21 10:59:39 2011. Some pix from the TMNY collection that may relate to this subject:catalog #5702 catalog #5722 catalog #5772 © TMNY |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 21 20:41:26 2011, in response to Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Sep 21 11:02:55 2011. nycsubway.org has some updated info which I've read recently. Until then I knew of it but nothing else. |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Komsomolskaya on Thu Sep 22 00:55:19 2011, in response to Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by The Silence on Wed Sep 21 11:59:54 2011. The Broad St extension is almost entirely a streetcar, which has to wait for cross traffic at intersections, and has only a short section in the tunnel (and in particular no two stations connected by a grade separated segment, unlike the Hoboken El which had several stations along the elevated itself). If I included every streetcar with an underground terminal (including the Queensboro/Williamsburg bridge lines, every line out of the old Public Service Terminal, etc) the map would become very busy and the lines with actual rapid service on substantial dedicated infrastructure would be much less clear.This is not to say that a map-timeline including all streetcar services in the New York area would not be interesting, but I decided to focus on lines meeting a stricter definition of "rapid transit". |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Sep 22 01:39:42 2011, in response to Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Michael Wares on Wed Sep 21 14:58:39 2011. Brilliant page and thanks for sharing.These two are my fav pics on there. Imagine the elevated terminal still standing? Too good for HBLR, to be sure . . . not like NJT was going to rebuild such a structure for it.   |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Sep 22 05:59:32 2011, in response to Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Komsomolskaya on Thu Sep 22 00:55:19 2011. pwn3dGood work. |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Michael Wares on Mon Sep 26 09:55:38 2011, in response to Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Michael Wares on Wed Sep 21 14:58:39 2011. A lot more on the Hoboken el:http://warofyesterday.blogspot.com/2011/09/hoboken-el.html |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Komsomolskaya on Mon Oct 3 12:46:30 2011, in response to Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Michael Wares on Wed Sep 21 14:58:39 2011. Joe Brennan sent me the following information about the Hoboken El, which I post here since I didn't find it elsewhere online.- Service began Jan 25, 1886, Hoboken Terminal to Palisade Ave. cable. - Extension to Pavonia Ave open Jun 19, 1892 ; cable portion electric Dec 1892 for through service. 15 d t cars with 2 poles, no steps. - Sometime between 1896 and 1905, to street railways as follows. Same until 1949 except as noted. 7 Jackson. Structure, Sip, Bergen, Fairmount, Monticello, Communipaw, Jackson, Long, Rose, Old Bergen, Gates. ret: same. 17 Summit. Structure, Palisade, Franklin, Central, Paterson Plank, Summit, Highpoint (22nd), Clinton (New York), Hackensack Plank (32nd), to Bergenline. return: Hackensack Plank (32nd), Summit, Paterson Plank, Central, Ferry St, New York, Ravine, structure. 17 some cars looped differently at north end: continue Summit to Hackensack Plank (32nd), to Bergenline, return Bergenline, Highpoint (22nd), Summit. 19 Union Hill. Structure, Palisade, Stevens (Monastery), Clinton (New York), Fulton (45th), Bergenline, 4th (48th), prw to Weehawken West Shore Terminal. return: prw, 4th (48th), Bergenline, Spring (Bergenline), Stevens (Monastery), Clinton (New York), prw in park, New York, Ravine, structure. 37 Oakland. Structure, Palisade, Prospect, Oakland, end at Hoboken Ave. ret: Hoboken, Palisade, structure. - 1910, 37 extended Hoboken Ave to Hackensack River bridge. - Starting 1912, 7 southbound cars run through loop at Sip Ave (J Sq) terminal. - 1919, 37 extended to DL&W crossing (w of bridge). - 1925, 37 cut back to rush hours only, end at Oakland and Hoboken Aves, from now on. - From 1933 to 1938 only, 7 extended via Ocean, Merritt, Ave C, W 10th, Broadway, W 5th, Ave C to loop at 1st St. - Starting 1938, 17 all cars loop same way: Summit, 22nd, New York, Hackensack Plank (32nd), to Bergenline. ret: Bergenline, 22nd St, Summit. - 1949, all service ended. The timeline maps have been updated to show the Hoboken El with these routes, along with a few changes to other parts of the map Mr. Brennan was able to advise me on. |
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Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service? |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Oct 3 13:20:33 2011, in response to Re: Old Hoboken Elevated service?, posted by Komsomolskaya on Mon Oct 3 12:46:30 2011. Thanks, very interesting. |
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