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| M/V Merger Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently (557659) | |||
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M/V Merger Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 22 11:21:06 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Jan 21 19:52:08 2008. I believe we've always disagreed on this one. Why do riders south of Wyckoff have to be inconvenienced for the sake of the four stops in Ridgewood and Middle Village?How are they inconvenienced? First off, many people from Knickerbocker and Central "reverse" ride to Wyckoff. Second, read this post in this thread for the rest of them, no sense retyping it: http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=557614 8th Ave Line - With the M/V combo line, they would have a very attractive, and easy transfer at West 4th St instead Two flights of stairs unless you're near the escalator. Is it very attractive when it may not be faster? Yes, but still a lot more attractive than the roundabout going all the way down to Fulton St, just to go back up again, and that transfer is far from a "dream" anyway even without the roundaboutness of getting there. Lexington Ave Line - However, with an M/V combo train, and once the Broadway-Lafayette-Bleecker connection is completely finished, they will have an attractive 2 seat ride option right there, thus making it more attractive than the 3 seat L/Wyckoff and Union Square option Even if the transfer is finished, it would not give transfer to the 4 and 5 expresses and the transfer is not there yet. Not so attractive, IMO. Yes, that's ONE transfer that is neither better nor worse. While it's not express, it's more direct (not going all the way tdown to Chambers) just to go north again on Lex. So I will give you the 4/5 transfer, but only as a "neutral" sort of advantage vs disadvantage. The Bleecker transfer to the 6 however is definitely an improvement over those that use Canal. Broadway Line - But with the M/V combo train, in a one seat ride going to the 6th Ave line, many of those riders will stay on the M, as the Bway Line's destinations in Midtown are very similar to the 6th Ave line's destinations, and a 1 seat ride is certainly superior to the current 3 seat ride set up they use with the L involved. Some will, some won't. Many people riding from local stations don't stay on locals on four-tracked lines even though it's a one seat ride if they did. Yes, we can leave it as "some will, dsome won't". But enough will to make it worthwhile. It all depends on the final walking destination. For some the 6th Ave line will only be an extra block from their Bway line station, for some it may be less. "Some will, some won't". But I guarantee that that extra block walk will be well worth it if their ride went from a 2 seat ride (or 3 if the L was involved) to a 1 seat ride using 6th Ave over Bway, will make it quite attractive. 7th Ave Line - And they will still have to trabsfer at 6th Ave/14th to get the 7th Ave line, however, they will be able to do it in a 2 seat ride instead of the L's three seat ride. The transfer from 6th Ave. is worse than from the L. Worse than the Fulton transfer. Yes it is. But this is taken out of context too. In the original post, I mentioned that they are probably not any better or worse off for 7th Ave line transferees using the L to 6th Ave, or the 6th Ave line to 14th St for a transfer to the 7th Ave line. However, other factors are involved in this, such as a THREE seat ride using the M, L, and then 7th Ave line is LESS attractive than a TWO seat ride using the 6th Ave service to 14th St for the similar transfer. That includes less waiting times, and one less transfer needed to be made....and BOTH of those scenerios are WAY better than using the Nassau line ALL THE WAY ROUNDABOUT to Fulton St, to use the nightmare PITA transfer at that station between the M and the 7th Ave line. Not only is that transfer a PITA on the scale probably worse than the transfer between the L and the 7th Ave line, but also a waste of time to go all the way south to Fulton just to go back north again after using that horrible transfer at Fulton St (via the Bway-Nassau platform no less). So yes, out of the three potential ways to transfer between the M line and the 7th Ave line (if the 6th Ave service is instated), the direct 6th Ave version is the most attractive, followed by the L scenario which today many use because they don't have the 6th Ave service), and certainly better than the horrible Nassau connection at Fulton. And this is GOOD for everyone It's not for Nassau St. bound people for sure. Sure it is, because as I mentioned, most people only use Nassau because of it's TRANFERS, not because of it's destinations, and in the post linked above I showed how the direct 6th Ave connections, if available, are more attractive than the Nassau transfers, even for those "south of Wyckoff" people. And J/Z riders will start playing the guess-which-platform game at Essex/Delancey even though the M/V combo service is an addition to current F service there. I don't understand. The southbound Nassau traffic will use the wall platform at Essex. Both the "M/V" and the J/Z will use the island platform at Essex, with the J/Z coming in on the middle track, and the "M/V" coming in on the side track. For reasons stated above, while it may take some slack from the L, I don't think the M/V combo riders will outnumber the Nassau St. bound people. And as I stated, all those supposed "Nassau" people are only using Nassau St because of it's transfers, (As stated in that link above), not for it's "destinations" outside fare control. And as I stated, this especially is relevant to the south of Wyckoff people, or more so, the south of Central Ave people who don't have the 2nd choice of the L, like the north of Wyckoff people do (or to a lesser extent Knickerbocker and Central Ave people do). The people at Lorimer and all them only used the Nassau line because of it's TRANFERS, not necessarily it's destinations. There are not a disproportionally more people that "work in the Financial District" along the J/M/Z lines than work there from any other line. In fact, it's probably less that have jobs in the Financial District that live along the Broadway El, Myrtle line, or even Jamaica. On top of that, you have to convince the Financial District and LMDC that a service cut is good for them. Good luck finding a way to create an M/V combo service without cutting service there. Agreed on that, but as I said, that can be rectifed with whatever will replace the West End El-Nassau St service. That can be done with the M (as the Orange V will be used for the Metropolitan service). The "M" could be a rush hour service from Bay Parkway to Chambers St, similar to the Brown R service that ran there until the late 80's. I think that would be a better alternative than using the J for Bay Parkway. The J should remain at Broad St. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, very few if any people use the current M from the Broadway El, through Nassau, through Montague to 4th Ave and West End. Two entirely different groups use the Northern part of the M and the Southern rush hour version of the M. BTW, I like discussing this. Me too. |
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