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Re: Thameslink 2020 inches closer

Posted by David Fairthorne on Mon Dec 18 13:57:04 2006, in response to Re: Thameslink 2020 inches closer, posted by Rail Blue on Mon Dec 18 07:13:39 2006.

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I see this as being a far more reliable selection of routes:

4tph Hertford North - Swanley via Herne Hill
2tph Stevenage via Hertford - Swanley via Herne Hill
6tph Welwyn Garden City - Orpington via Herne Hill
2tph St Albans - Guildford via London Bridge and West Croydon
2tph St Albans - East Grinstead via London Bridge
2tph St Albans - Uckfield via London Bridge
2tph Bedford Fast - Tonbridge via London Bridge and Redhill
2tph Bedford Fast - Horsham via London Bridge and Redhill
2tph Bedford Fast - Brighton via London Bridge and Redhill


Your service plan has the advantage of regularity, and I agree that it would probably be more reliable.

North of London, there is an equal split between Kings Cross and St Pancras lines, with 12 tph each. St Pancras has an equal 6 tph split between St Albans slow and Bedford fast, and Kings Cross has an equal 6 tph split between Hertford and Welwyn.

South of London, there is an equal split between Herne Hill and London Bridge, with 12 tph each. Via Herne Hill there is an equal 6 tph split between Swanley and Orpington, and via London Bridge there is an equal 6 tph split between Redhill routes and other routes.

This plan looks good as a purely Thameslink plan. But one needs to consider also what becomes of the existing services (Thameslink and non-Thameslink), otherwise it's hard to tell who would be adversely affected. There are political implications.

Presumably the Blackfriars to Sevenoaks via the Catford loop would be unaffected, and the Wimbledon-Sutton loop could be served from either Blackfriars terminus or London Bridge terminus. Neither of these needs 12-car trains.

I think you are right to focus on the main line via New Cross Gate, because that fast route is under-utilized. There is no need for Thameslink service via New Cross, and it's better operationally to keep the South Eastern separate from Thameslink.

Your 12 tph via Herne Hill to Swanley and Orpington seems excessive; on those lines there is more demand for Victoria than for Thameslink. However, a proper interchange with the underground at Elephant & Castle could make quite a difference.

You have eliminated or reduced some of the longest routes, which should help reliability. Kings Lynn, Cambridge, Letchworth, Peterborough, Eastbourne, Littlehampton are all eliminated and Brighton is reduced.

Welwyn and Hertford North currently have slow services to Moorgate (deep level); if you plan to replace these local services by Thameslink, you might want to reintroduce the Northern City line shuttle from Finsbury Park to Moorgate.

One last point: the Uckfield branch would have to be electrified; traffic on that line is light, and a shuttle service might suffice, with a more frequent service to East Grinstead.

This service pattern applies to the peak period. I suggest that each 6 tph peak service should have a 4 tph off-peak service.

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