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Posted by
Wallyhorse
on Thu Feb 11 03:24:32 2016, in response to New proposal if L train is shut down between Manhattan and Brooklyn., posted by SI 93 on Wed Feb 10 17:41:18 2016.
edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d SI 93 wrote:
>>Here is a great proposal, if L train service is shut down between Manhattan and Brooklyn. My proposal is:>>
>>-Eliminate the skip-stop J/Z service, J trains would make all stops during AM to Manhattan and PM to Brooklyn and Queens between Myrtle Av and Stuphin Blvd.>>
This for numerous reasons can't be done, and even more so if you have to run the (M) (and other stuff, see below) on the express track between Marcy and Myrtle and/or Broadway Junction. You need the skip-stop during rush hours on the J/Z.
>>-NO CBTC on the L line during shutdown but operate a K train between Broad St and Rockaway Pkwy Monday thru Friday 6:00am to 8:00pm only, K trains would operate express from Myrtle Av to Marcy Av during AM to Manhattan and PM to Brooklyn.>>
You need CBTC on the (L), which could be done as I have suggested by truncating the (L) to between Beford Avenue and Broadway Junction during the shutdown (there are track switches coming out of the portal going towards Broadway Junction to the east/railroad south that allow for this).
Your (K) idea was suggested elsewhere and is one I have also suggested in the past, but in this case it would need to be a 24/7 line between Rockaway Parkway and in your case Broad Street being 24/7 (and again, there are signals still in place between the flyover, Atlantic Avenue and Broadway Junction so non-CBTC trains can get to the yard in Canarsie for service). The problem is, it does not help with where most people want to go, which is midtown, and forces a transfer either at Essex (to midtown service via for now 6th Avenue) or at Canal (to the (N) or (Q) on an express platform on the Broadway Line that reportedly is overcrowded as it is) or walking (through such crowds) to get to the (6) or the Broadway local.
My plans as noted are in two parts:
Part 1: As noted in several other posts (including this one), I would have the (M) beefed up with what would be a new "Orange (T)" (that really is the (M) signed up under a different letter) that runs to 96th Street and 2nd Avenue 24/7. Weekdays, this would be a supplemental line to the (M) while late nights and weekends, this would replace the (M) to 96th Street and 2nd Avenue, running 6-7 TPH at all times (except late nights when it would run at 3 TPH). There would also at peak hours be 1-2 extra (M) trains above what there is now to 71st-Continental.
>>-Weekends, the M train would be extended to 96th St and 2nd Av.>>
Which as noted, this new "Orange (T)" does as it would go there at all times.
Part 2: As noted in this other post, it is a bit more complicated:
In this case, it would have the (L) truncated to Broadway Junction (Google Earth shows there is a switch between Broadway Junction and where the line goes underground) where it can better serve the much more heavily traveled part of the line. Meanwhile, we see the flyover between the Broadway-Brooklyn and Canarsie lines wind up in revenue for the first time since 1968, in this case with the (C) train that is also a 480' train be re-routed after West 4th, run via the (M) and then (J) to Broadway Junction and then via the current (L) to Rockaway Parkway. This version of the (C) would be a 24/7 line between Rockaway Parkway and 168th Street (I have read elsewhere there are still signals on the stretch between Broadway Junction and Rockaway Parkway so non-CBTC cars can access the Rockaway Yard). During this time the (C) and (M) (and if implemented, "Orange (T)") would run express in Brooklyn (M/T to/from Myrtle, C to/from Broadway Junction) during peak hours while the (J) and (Z) would run local then.
I'm well aware this would create a slew of other issues (most notably the (C) merging with the (M) (and possibly (T)) and (F) at Broadway-Lafayette and the (J) at Essex, but there are going to be issues no matter what because of the (L) shutdown and this would likely minimize those. If necessary, you either run 1-2 (F) trains per hour during peak periods via the Crosstown OR you cut the (F) by 1-2 TPH and add additional (G) service to replace it during that time to help with the issues the (G) is going to face no matter what shutdown happens.
If those changes are made, there are other ripple effects, those being (as I would do them):
The (E) is extended to Euclid Avenue to replace the (C) in Brooklyn at all times and late nights is further extended to Lefferts to eliminate the late-night Lefferts shuttle. Because of capacity issues between Canal and Chambers Streets, during peak hours, select (E) trains (including ALL (E)'s that begin and end at 179th Street) are designated as and terminate at Chambers, running local while during those hours, (E) trains to Brooklyn run on the express track with the (A). Since the (C) would be leaving the line at West 4th, there would also be a supplemental (K) train (running a max of 2-5 TPH) at all times betweeen Chambers and 168th Street.
Again, I know this a far from perfect situation, but it might be the most doable for at least this period (and if proven successful could be made permanent after the (L) closure is over). There are going to be MAJOR issues all over the place with the ripple effects of this shutdown and keeping enough people off the (G) and (L) by running both a re-routed (C) between Rockaway Parkway in Brooklyn and 168th Street in Manhattan AND a "Orange (T)" (that really is the (M) but signed under a different letter) that runs from Metropolitan Avenue in Queens to 2nd Avenue and 96th Street in Manhattan may be the best way to minimize those problems even if it creates logjams in some cases in doing so.
The main purpose of doing this is to keep as many people as possible off the (L) and more importantly off a (G) line that is going to see a massive rise is (G) train ridership and for those who have to go that way, I would also encourage people to take the (G) going south (towards Coney Island) instead of north (towards Court Square) by adding special OOS transfers (that are in addition to the regular transfers) from the (G) to the Broadway-Brooklyn line at Hewes Street/Broadway and from the (G) at Fulton Street to the (C) at Lafayette Avenue and the 2/3/4/5/B/D/N/Q/R and by then possibly (W) at Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center. This is to take pressure off the Court Square area, especially since the (E) (M) and (7) will be having to take on a good amount of this load as it is in addition to their regular load and the (E) / (M) and (7) platforms are going to be jammed because of this.
No matter how you slice it, it's going to be one big, massive headache that I'm simply trying to massage by spreading out the pain as much as possible.
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