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| Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy (983019) | |
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| (983019) | |
Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 04:05:17 2012 Allow me to quote the last paragraph of the op-ed: "The confident belief that they are like the Soviets is a fantasy. That’s why Israel is contemplating a preemptive strike. Israel refuses to trust its very existence to the convenient theories of comfortable analysts living 6,000 miles from its Ground Zero."Click here for the whole thing. I can't wait to see how some here try spinning this. I believe someone here posted that because the Cold War never went nuclear, this conflict won't either. Mr. Krauthammer tears that argument to shreds (though others here did so without his help when that post was made initially). |
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| (983021) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Tue Sep 4 04:12:06 2012, in response to Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 04:05:17 2012. I totally agreed with his article.The Soviet Union was about flexing its muscle. It was a COLD War. Iran openly hates Israel and wants to wipe it off the planet. |
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| (983029) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 4 05:05:14 2012, in response to Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 04:05:17 2012. EXCELLENT COLUMN!I've said it once and I will say it again and again: We bet on the wrong horse in Afghanistan. |
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| (983030) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Sep 4 06:16:04 2012, in response to Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 04:05:17 2012. Excellent column by Charles Krauthammer. |
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| (983031) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Tue Sep 4 06:35:39 2012, in response to Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 04:05:17 2012. It's easy to say that, quite easy. Israeli planners have said the war would be a short war too, but the US said the same about Iraq and we learned that it wasn't the case. Also the US would suffer repercussions for this because even if Israel did this completely on their own the world will automatically draw the conclusion that the US gave their blessing. So the US has as much of a vested interest. |
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| (983032) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 4 07:07:09 2012, in response to Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 04:05:17 2012. I say go ahead, just keep us out of it.your pal, Fred |
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| (983036) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Sep 4 08:30:22 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 4 07:07:09 2012. Can't. The Israelis don't have the power to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities. |
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| (983037) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Sep 4 08:41:13 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by AlM on Tue Sep 4 08:30:22 2012. In 1981, Israel carried out Operation Opera against Iran's neighbor, Iraq, which was then attempting to complete a nuclear reactor. Israel is even better equipped today to raid Iran, no? |
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| (983039) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Sep 4 08:43:41 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Sep 4 08:41:13 2012. Yes, but Iran is far far better equipped to protect its facilities than Iraq was. Their stuff is under a mountain. Israel could temporarily block the exits. |
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| (983040) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 4 08:45:50 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Sep 4 08:41:13 2012.  They need to go about twice as far to attack this time tho and that's been a hindrance. We could loan them some planes for the weekend :) your pal, Fred |
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| (983042) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Sep 4 08:52:26 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 4 08:45:50 2012. The IAF has capable fighters, including the Boeing and Lockheed-Martin versions of the F-16I, but no bombers. If we had more B-2 Spirits in our own fleet, I suppose one or two of those could be "seconded" to the IAF without anyone noticing. Pity we only built 21 of 'em... |
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| (983062) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Dan on Tue Sep 4 09:22:18 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by G1Ravage on Tue Sep 4 04:12:06 2012. Best point that Krauthammer makes is the fact that the Soviets never used suicide bombers. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 4 09:24:17 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by G1Ravage on Tue Sep 4 04:12:06 2012. A lot of Americans died in that COLD War.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Sep 4 09:25:27 2012, in response to Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 04:05:17 2012. I believe someone here posted that because the Cold War never went nuclear, this conflict won't eitherCommunism might be a murderous ideology that believes in world conquest, but it's not a death cult that believes a savior will appear if they deliberately start WWIII. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Tue Sep 4 09:36:49 2012, in response to Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 04:05:17 2012. " I believe someone here posted that because the Cold War never went nuclear, this conflict won't either."I apologize that I did not see this post, so I can't point you where it was. But the opt-ed must be fantasy. We all know that Obama continuing, and modifying in a horrible way, the Bush policies of negotiation. And Obama is never wrong. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 4 09:53:08 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Sep 4 06:35:39 2012. The Iraq War WAS short. It was the continuing occupation that was long. |
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| (983088) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 4 09:54:09 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Sep 4 06:35:39 2012. Who the fuck cares what the LOSER COUNTRIES think! |
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| (983096) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 4 10:00:47 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 4 09:54:09 2012. I do. Every time the loser countries do something here, I lose freedom.your pal, Fred |
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| (983167) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Dave on Tue Sep 4 11:31:18 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Sep 4 08:52:26 2012. Israel's F-15I would be the only option for carrying the GBU-28 laser-guided missiles, with "bunker busting" warheads. |
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| (983190) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 11:58:13 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Sep 4 06:35:39 2012. Mr. Krauthammer makes no statements in his piece about whether Israeli war planning is likely to be correct or whether issues might occur (in fact, there is quite a bit of disagreement about this matter within the Israeli intelligence and defense circles), whether the US would or would not suffer repercussions if Israel preemptively attacks Iran, or whether or not the US has a vested interest in this. While Mr. Krauthammer does support an Israeli strike against Iran (stated in other writings and media appearances, but not this particular column), the point of this column is to say that the argument that deterring the Iranians won't work just because it worked with the Soviets. Care to address the points that were actually made in the op-ed? |
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| (983192) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 11:58:45 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 4 09:53:08 2012. And Israeli war planning has nothing to do with the column that I linked to... |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 12:00:36 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Sep 4 08:52:26 2012. The IAF has never tried launching a mission like this so far away from Israel. Yes, they did Entebbe in 1976 but that was a rescue mission, not an attack on another country's nuclear facilities. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Sep 4 12:02:16 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 11:58:13 2012. Again? |
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| (983256) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Sep 4 13:19:08 2012, in response to Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 04:05:17 2012. I still believe the religious aspect is being played up by the Iranians for propaganda purposes, but that their proposed nuclear arsenal would not be pointed Israel's way, at least not initially. They may be fanatical, but they're not stupid. No matter what rhetoric comes out of their government, the guys at the top aren't going to be nearly as willing to sacrifice their country as their suicide bombers sacrifice themselves. They have to know that a nuclear strike against Israel, even an unsuccessful one, would bring about a massive retaliation from Israel, and would likely include a ruinous conventional strategic campaign by the US after the UN hangs them out to dry.Their Arab neighbors across the Gulf are much more lucrative targets for coercion to strengthen the Iranian position in the region. The Iranians can threaten them with virtual impunity as the only real threat of retaliation comes from the US (as well as France, Russia, and the UK), and that could well be tempered by religious or economic arguments. And it's a hell of a lot easier to pick a fight with their neighbors across the Gulf. Not only is it a lot closer, but Israel has a fully integrated air defense system for dealing with almost all varieties of threats from cruise missiles through ballistic missiles, while Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Qatar all have many more holes in their air defense systems. We can likely be counted on to plug some of those holes by stationing Aegis cruisers and destroyers in the Gulf, but that support isn't likely to be permanent and will not be as effective as air defense systems being colocated with population centers. For the time being the Iranians cannot show their hand too early lest they risk their Arabian neighbors taking a much more overt action to keep Iran from emerging as a regional power. So they'll keep playing up the religious aspect while preparing weapons which are virtually useless against Israel. Their "ballistic missile" only has the range to reach Israel with an incredibly light payload, and it is highly unlikely their first generation nuclear warheads will weigh less than a ton. As such their nuclear arsenal will, at least initially, be composed of short range ballistic missiles better suited to hitting Riyadh than Tel Aviv. I'm not saying the Iranians won't strike Israel, but it'll be later rather than sooner. Nuking the Israelis with their first dozen bombs would accomplish nothing for them. But using their nuclear arsenal to reinforce their strategic position, possibly even precluding US involvement by controlling oil production in the neighboring Arabian states, makes their survival in a nuclear exchange much more likely. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Sep 4 15:35:02 2012, in response to Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 04:05:17 2012. Israel doesn't have the military capability to take them out in a conventional strike.Israel knows it. Iran knows it. We know it. Which means that we will have to do it ourselves sometime in Nov-Dec barring a major diplomatic capitulation on Iran's part or a catastrophic cyberattack or sabotage done by any number of countries. People like Krauthammer who have never worn a military uniform in their life still see effective modern warfare through 19th-20th Century lenses. It's time for them to put the Clausewitz books down and learn how things are destroyed today. They have no idea what advanced military forces our capable of today. Stuff done from behind a computer. People like him don't think it's war unless they see explosions. That's why they get paid to bloviate instead of actually running things. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Sep 4 15:36:38 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by AlM on Tue Sep 4 08:43:41 2012. Not to mention the Israeli Air Force's practically non-existent force projection. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Tue Sep 4 17:12:34 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 11:58:13 2012. His post is basically saying that Israel should go for war by saying that deterrence won't work and Im addressing that even a pre-emptive strike is a idea with repercussions not only for Iran but for the US. Now do you have a problem with me discussing that, if you do, I honestly don't give a damn. Personally that post, is full of fear mongering that leads to mistakes and mistakes that will cost lives. Unless Krauthammer is sleeping with the Iranian leadership then his post is pure speculation. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Tue Sep 4 17:14:28 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 4 09:54:09 2012. Then you wonder why people in other countries hate us? Stupid arrogant statements like that. |
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| (983425) | |
Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 18:13:59 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Sep 4 17:12:34 2012. I know Mr. Krauthammer personally. He is a hell of a lot smarter than you and I are, that is probably why he has a syndicated newspaper column and neither one of us does. I'm willing to bet if you actually prepared good arguments (and they had better be good, he'll tear you apart if you aren't prepared because he knows his stuff), you could get him to concede that one can make the argument that deterrence won't work with Iran and that doesn't necessarily mean that Israel needs to strike Iran to solve the problem. The point isn't that you can't discuss those potential repercussions. You can. But they aren't really connected to his point, which you seem to have missed. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Sep 4 18:53:12 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 18:13:59 2012. Note that he doesn't say that deterrence won't work.He says the confident belief that it will work is fantasy. Those are two quite different statements. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Sep 4 21:28:34 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 18:13:59 2012. I know Mr. Krauthammer personally. He is a hell of a lot smarter than you and I are, that is probably why he has a syndicated newspaper column and neither one of us does.Just because someone is smart doesn't make them experts on every topic, especially an issue as complex as nuclear proliferation and the most effective means to prevent it. He is way out of his league on this issue. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 4 22:05:52 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 18:13:59 2012. He has a syndicated column and a spot on TV because somebody likes his brand of bullshit :) I agree that he's a smart man but he makes his wages by bullshitting.I'm not sure he's hitting the bullseye here. I know that things aren't same as the Cold War (which I miss for its stablitity) but it's not like deterence is lost on Iran as they're more pragmatic than he gives them credit for. I would agree they're more reckless than the Soviets were, especially after 1962 but they're not North Korea either. I think that Krauthamer is still of the shock and awe crowd rather than the virus and drone crowd and thinks that hammering the mountain the nuclear labs are living under with bombs is going to end the program. your pal, Fred |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 5 01:10:50 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 4 22:05:52 2012. Hard to know if Krauthammer is hitting the bullseye here or not, hindsight (once we have it) is always 20/20 and we won't be able to see how things played out following more than one scenario.And trust me when I say he is smart. Whether you agree with his opinions (I often don't), he knows his stuff. Most of the BSing that people like to do on this board wouldn't get far with him. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 5 01:11:08 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by AlM on Tue Sep 4 18:53:12 2012. Point taken, thank you. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Sep 5 01:13:22 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 5 01:10:50 2012. I won't argue his intelligence; he's no dummy.your pal, Fred |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 5 01:27:26 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by AlM on Tue Sep 4 18:53:12 2012. That's the same as saying that it won't work. How is it not? |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by mr mabstoa on Wed Sep 5 01:29:31 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WillD on Tue Sep 4 13:19:08 2012. The only problem is will Russia take the side of the Iranians if they did strike first.Then the US may not be able to shut Iran down quickly. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Sep 5 01:37:29 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by mr mabstoa on Wed Sep 5 01:29:31 2012. I'm guessing they would, less out of deep friendship with Iran but more to fuck with us.your pal, Fred |
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For LuchAAA Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 5 01:50:48 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Sep 4 12:02:16 2012. You're almost certainly right about this, I never learn do I? ;-) |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by mr mabstoa on Wed Sep 5 01:56:36 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by Fred G on Wed Sep 5 01:37:29 2012. Yeah and Putin lately has been flexing his muscle, maybe its just because of the this problem or he see's the Arab winter as a perfect opportunity to enter the stage. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Sep 5 01:58:13 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by mr mabstoa on Wed Sep 5 01:56:36 2012. The latter. Russians haven't been happy with oil and gas prices lately either for theirs. Putin is Russia's Reagan. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by B68 slow poke on Wed Sep 5 02:12:18 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Sep 5 01:58:13 2012. Самое мощное в России является водка! |
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Re: For LuchAAA Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Sep 5 02:13:46 2012, in response to For LuchAAA Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 5 01:50:48 2012. You're almost certainly right about this, I never learn do I? ;-)You were warned. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Sep 5 02:18:18 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by B68 slow poke on Wed Sep 5 02:12:18 2012. Топливо для реактивных двигателей! |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by B68 slow poke on Wed Sep 5 02:20:43 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Sep 5 02:18:18 2012. LOL ! |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Sep 5 02:28:06 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by B68 slow poke on Wed Sep 5 02:20:43 2012. At least the good stuff anyway. And no joke ... earlier MIGs *could* burn wodka. :) |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Wed Sep 5 03:23:32 2012, in response to Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Sep 4 04:05:17 2012. Krauthammer was just on FOX News. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 5 03:34:37 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Sep 4 17:14:28 2012. I don't care if they hate us. They are LOSERS! If they want America to respect them they should get out of the fucking Dark Ages and join the 21st Century. |
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Re: tard |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 5 03:41:44 2012, in response to , posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 5 01:27:26 2012. Just because all the cool kids are doing it doesn't mean you should too. |
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Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 5 03:50:40 2012, in response to Re: Charles Krauthammer: Deterence with Iran Suceeding = Fantasy, posted by B68 slow poke on Wed Sep 5 02:12:18 2012. Learn to speak Russian. |
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