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| Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets (968570) | |
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| (968719) | |
Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 22:55:16 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 22:39:41 2012. Yeah, that was his excuse after the fact. The police tell a very different tale. |
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| (968720) | |
Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 22:59:59 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sat Aug 4 22:42:08 2012. That story got little to no coverage in NY media. It would seem to be a miscarriage of justice. Why was the girl shot? Judges do take mitigating and aggravating circumstances into account when sentencing guidelines permit. |
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Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:01:34 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sat Aug 4 22:47:37 2012. There was a report many years ago that a man used phoney press credentials to talk his way into the cab of an IRT subway train. The man was arrested and the train operator was harshly disciplined. |
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Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:01:38 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 22:53:59 2012. OK, Walter ... :) |
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Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:02:25 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:01:38 2012. Prove me wrong. |
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Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Aug 4 23:05:55 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Aug 4 22:21:38 2012. i doubt very much that Easy would be frisked in NYC even if he was a teen again.I'll bet you aren't pulled over and frisked often. |
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| (968725) | |
Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:07:17 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 22:55:16 2012. Somebody needs to edit that article then since it's one of the newspapers of record around here. |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sat Aug 4 23:08:53 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:01:34 2012. ok but that was not me |
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| (968727) | |
Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Aug 4 23:09:00 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 22:59:59 2012. From wikipedia:Du observed Harlins putting a bottle of orange juice in her backpack. Police say that Du erroneously concluded Harlins was attempting to steal, evidently not seeing the money Harlins was holding. (The police reached this conclusion after speaking with the two eyewitnesses present and viewing the videotape of the incident, recorded by a store security camera.)[2][3] Du attempted to grab Harlins by the sweater and snatched her backpack. Harlins then struck Du with her fist three times, knocking Du to the ground. After Harlins backed away, Du then threw a stool at her. Harlins then picked up the orange juice that dropped during the scuffle, threw[4] it on the counter and turned to leave. Du reached under the counter to retrieve a handgun, then fired at Harlins from behind at a distance of about three feet and shot her in the back of her head, killing her instantly. Du's husband, Billy Heung Ki Du, heard the shot and rushed into the store. After speaking to his wife, who asked for whereabouts of Harlins before fainting, he dialed 9-1-1 to report an alleged holdup. Harlins died with $2 in her left hand.[5] Du testified on her own behalf, stating that it was self-defense and that her life was in danger, but her testimony were contradicted by the statements of the two witnesses present at the time and the security camera video which showed her shooting Harlins in the back of the head as Harlins was attempting to leave the store. However, the Los Angeles police department ballistics expert report also found that the handgun Du used was altered in such a way that, compared to an ordinary handgun, much less pressure on the trigger was necessary to result in firing.[5] On November 15, 1991, the jury, believing that Du's shooting was fully within her control and she fired the gun voluntarily, found Du guilty of voluntary manslaughter, an offense that carries a maximum prison sentence of 16-years in prison. However, trial judge, Joyce Karlin, sentenced Du five years of probation, four hundred hours of community service, and a $500 fine.[6][7] |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:10:22 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:02:25 2012. Ah yes ... the old "negative proof" trick. :)
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sat Aug 4 23:10:33 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sat Aug 4 23:09:00 2012. i remember that well how she got away with murder !total injustice set off the 1992 rebellion too |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sat Aug 4 23:12:04 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:10:22 2012. LOL maxwell smart LOL |
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Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:18:29 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sat Aug 4 23:12:04 2012. I'd be willing to take him at his word, but then given how he handles what the rest of us have to say, you'd think that he would have posted proff along with his statement. After all, his own rules ... :) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:18:32 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:07:17 2012. Sorry, but I'm not a historian. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:21:59 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sat Aug 4 23:09:00 2012. Liberal judges = liberal justice.I can't explain it any other way. I agree - that sentence was far too lenient. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:24:47 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:18:32 2012. Noted. |
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Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Aug 4 23:26:23 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:21:59 2012. That case was the powder keg for black and Korean relations in Los Angeles and why so many Korean businesses were targeted in the riots. |
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| (968741) | |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Aug 4 23:30:40 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Aug 4 23:05:55 2012. You'd probably be surprised how many negative interactions I had with police when I was younger for no valid reason. |
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| (968742) | |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:31:43 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:24:47 2012. It would also betray a confidence and reveal information about a person that I may have to work with in the future. |
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| (968743) | |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:32:52 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sat Aug 4 23:26:23 2012. Similar situation in the Flatbush section of Brooklyn a few years ago. I don't recall a shooting though |
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| (968747) | |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:35:41 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sat Aug 4 23:30:40 2012. I f you were a normal teen, you had a few as we all did. |
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| (968749) | |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Aug 4 23:37:58 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:35:41 2012. Even well into my 20's and early 30's. I looked 18 until I was about 34 at which point I looked like I was 50. lol |
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| (968751) | |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:38:51 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:31:43 2012. FWIW, no problem, and no need to prove anything. Only reason why I said anything at all is that when *I* have an opinion on something, you're not as gracious about it. You made me go read up on Crown Heights, I'm appalled at what happened there, but I also worked for Dave Dinkins and got to know the man personally. What happened there was not deliberate on his part.How things went down many have affected his relationship with the Jewish community, but prior to all that, it was pretty good or Inner City and the Apollo rebuild would never have happened. You may wish to hate Dave and that's OK. I won't ... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:40:43 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sat Aug 4 23:37:58 2012. Well, I remember a few run-ins I had with a local beat cop back in the 60s, not to mention the one I called a "fucking Apple-pincher"! Thankfully we survive our stupid years and we grow up. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:42:46 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:38:51 2012. I don't hate dave, I have no respect for him or his time as mayor. His one term should indicate that the majority of New Yorkers agreed with me. |
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| (968760) | |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:51:01 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:42:46 2012. Yep ... largely the same New Yorkers that kept voting Bloomberg back into office too. Well ... seeing how that worked out as well as Obama, we can certainly take away a lesson here. Those who actually want to make things better should leave government to the thugs and the crooks. People like idiots and will vote for them until things get SO bad that even the crooks can't get elected.But in all sincerity, Dave was a good man. His failure was that he wasn't a thug or a crook. |
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| (968764) | |
Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 5 00:01:53 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sat Aug 4 23:30:40 2012. You're a bit of a militant. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Aug 5 00:05:31 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 4 23:40:43 2012. I mean stuff like being pulled over with little or no reason and being asked if they could search my car. I wasn't being stupid. I'm quite sure that it happens to everyone, but statistics show that it happens to some more than others. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 5 00:07:12 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 5 00:01:53 2012. Heh. It's all good though ... keeps those chinup bars from being disrespected. :)
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| (968769) | |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Aug 5 00:07:28 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 5 00:01:53 2012. lol. No. But I used to not like the police until recently, but that was based on my experiences. The police love me now and I tolerate them. |
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Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 5 00:09:45 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:51:01 2012. I don't doubt that your opinion of him is sincere. Those who lived or worked in the city during his tenure found him to be feckless and ineffective - the Abe Beame of his time. Speaking of which Beame and Dinkins were the only one term mayors of NYC in the last 60 years, |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 5 00:11:06 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 5 00:05:31 2012. I can see that happening and how that could be distressing. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 5 00:12:55 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 5 00:09:45 2012. Heh. Pity you don't know the history then ... Dave was one of Beame's guys. Look it up. :) |
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| (968775) | |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 5 00:16:30 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 5 00:12:55 2012. I think I knew that but what's your point. They both sucked, Koch out-liberaled Beam and still won. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 5 00:17:33 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 5 00:16:30 2012. Wasn't any point. I just lul'd over it. And Koch ... heh. Turned NYC into a genuine joke. :( |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Aug 5 00:22:47 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Aug 4 22:37:23 2012. i can't understand how someone could say they want to see the crime stop in the black community then say they are against stop-n-frisk. it's contradictory.They want crime to go down, but without stop and frisk. When you have young men complaining about being interrogated by the cops repeatedly despite being innocent, a meme is created about criminals who get away while innocent men are being stopped by the cops. It's massively disjointed, but that's how the theory plays out. |
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Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 5 00:27:28 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Aug 5 00:22:47 2012. They want crime to go down, but without stop and frisk. When you have young men complaining about being interrogated by the cops repeatedly despite being innocent, a meme is created about criminals who get away while innocent men are being stopped by the cops. It's massively disjointed, but that's how the theory plays out.It's a necessary evil. Frisking innocent people who fit a profile will happen. Look at all the guns taken off the streets. Think about how many people will now be more willing to carry a gun, knowing police are backing down to the ACLU(lawyers who would never live near or around blacks and Latinos anyway). It's a never ending cycle. Politicians like Hakeem Jeffries marches with TWU 100 to stop the frisks. Sharpton asks for a sit-down with police commissioner. Then a series of shootings take place, and the shooter is always of a certain profile. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Aug 5 00:29:15 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 5 00:27:28 2012. always?? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 5 00:29:15 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Aug 5 00:22:47 2012. 1) You can have police who will stop and frisk and take illegal weapons and criminals off the street before they commit a violent crime.2) You can have police who are passive and respond to a crime scene after a crime has been committed and then they can take a report. 3) You can have cops who may witness a crime and make a timely arrest. Look, either you are going to let the cops be proactive or you are going to expect them to be reactive. That is unless you know of another tactic that the police can use to prevent violent crime without their current "stop and Frisk" policy. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 5 00:30:32 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 5 00:29:15 2012. usually?Frequently? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 5 00:30:45 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 5 00:29:15 2012. In NYC it is.99% of the time the person is a minority, black most likely. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Aug 5 00:31:51 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 5 00:29:15 2012. I'm not a cop, but I'm aware of other tactics. Bratton's tactic that he left with NYPD was to use a computer program to track and predict crime and then assign more officers to "hot" areas. That's good policing. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Aug 5 00:33:13 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 5 00:30:45 2012. Not 99% |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 5 00:42:05 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 5 00:33:13 2012. Whites just 7%. Still low enough to justify focusing stop-and-frisk in Bed-Stuy and Washington Heights, and less in Forest Hills and Mill Basin. |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Aug 5 00:43:28 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 5 00:33:13 2012. Not 99%Just to be screwy, New York's Hispanic population is basically composed of people with sizable African ancestry who speak Spanish as opposed to people with sizable Native American ancestry who speak Spanish. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 5 00:46:06 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 5 00:33:13 2012. And of the crime committed by Hispanic, I'll bet the Puerto Ricans and Dominicans commit more crime than the lighter Colombians and Peruvians.The darker the more crime you have. Kind of like gun crime on a worldwide basis. |
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Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Sun Aug 5 00:49:45 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 4 23:51:01 2012. Heh...Dave was mayor in 92 right?Cos a few months after the Rodney King Fiasco & people getting knocked stupid by out of control rioters being with no cops in sight, I remember some kind of razmataz going on up in Washington Heigts or somewhere up in upper Manhattan....I just remember seeing cop car after cop car flying up B'way and that night I remember thinking how they didn't want to look like LA. A friend of mine who was on the job then also said they made sure they sent in lots of supervision there as well as to prevent a cop riot as well. There's balance in everything.....sadly lots of folks don't want to know..... All this technology and it seems. we arenn't smart enough to use it for peace....for truth, or whatever. With us or against us......Olag's bible or athiesm.....idiot this way or idiot that way. But it's okay...every one's got thier left wing or right wing blogs to run to for comfort and reinforcement of beliefs. And ya know what else....I want to see people be able have a voice in what our elected morons can do once they're in office....have no idea how that would work. Maybe I'll vote for Romney just to crash this fucked up country & put it out of it's misery.....I'm begining to think like BIE. Sorry for the rant. Jimmymc25 |
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Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Aug 5 00:54:06 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 5 00:29:15 2012. Admittedly, I'm a socially obtuse freak, but I suspect that there's sense that option three seems to be what they're expecting.* Even with increases in taxation to pay for cops, you can't have cops everywhere. Regardless, stop and frisk is a heavy handed and crude, yet common sense option for filtering a population for illegal guns, drugs, and bail jumpers. Compstat is great for looking at patterns of crimes, especially rapes and robberies, so it gives police clues as to various hotspots for those types of crimes, but it's not a solution for problems of two young men shooting each other over women. Scaring the young men who would be likely to carry out of carrying, or finding the young men who are carrying is the best way to try and reduce the crime, but in the long-term something is going to have to be done to reduce the tendency of these men to shoot each other for nothing, and to reduce the illegal guns that are coming in from other sources.*Plus, as I've noticed, there's a sense within these communities that their white equivalents don't get searched, and that the frisks don't work because there are still criminals with guns walking around. |
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Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Aug 5 00:54:10 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 5 00:42:05 2012. So we need two sets of laws? A less invasive set of laws for whites and Asians and more strict and invasive laws for blacks and Hispanics? |
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Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 5 01:00:14 2012, in response to Re: NYPD Stop-and-Frisk plummets, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 5 00:54:10 2012. it's not a law, it's a tactic. the number of crimes committed by minorities justifies focusing on them for stop-and-frisk. |
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