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| The (Not So Good) Old Days (731590) | |
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| (731590) | |
The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 10:28:20 2011 My friend up the block now has a restored 1977 Lincoln Town Car. This boat is almost 15 feet long bumper to bumper, and probably gets around 10 mpg. He is in his fifties, and waxes nostalgic for the '70s.Oh, yeah, American cars from the '70s...the ones where you stalled out just after merging onto the expressway, leaving you sitting there like a turtle in the path of an oncoming semi. The days when you wanted to accelerate, and your car thought about it for a few seconds while you pressed on the accelerator. OH, and let's not forget "vapor lock"...you'd be driving along normally one minute, then poof! your car would quit running, leaving you rolling with no power steering or brakes. The "good old days" of driving...NOT! |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Feb 8 10:36:17 2011, in response to The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 10:28:20 2011. True. Cars (and tastes) have improved dramatically since then.I can appreciate driving one of those sometimes. It feels like you're floating down the road. But I wouldn't want to drive one every day. Once a year is enough. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Feb 8 10:36:46 2011, in response to The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 10:28:20 2011. OTOH the models I shoot with just LOVE 1950's cars :)
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 10:38:54 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by BMTLines on Tue Feb 8 10:36:46 2011. LOL! I remember as a VERY young child, going to a place called the Auto Pub, where you ate food right off your window, just like that! LOL! |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 10:46:34 2011, in response to The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 10:28:20 2011. Why would anyone bother restoring a '77 Town Car? My friend's dad had a '77 Ford Granada and it was one of the biggest pieces of junk he ever owned. The '77 Town Car was a blandly-styled behemoth, with awful fuel mileage even for the day, boat-like handling and a nausea-inducing floaty ride. If your friend is nostalgic for the '70s, a terrible decade for cars and lots of other things, there were much better cars he could have restored.If I had the resources, I would restore a muscle car from the '60s. My first choice would be a '68 or '69 Dodge Charger R/T. It is my favorite all-time vehicle. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Feb 8 11:00:35 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 10:46:34 2011. My first choice would be a '68 or '69 Dodge Charger R/T. It is my favorite all-time vehicle.Just like the car in Bullitt: 
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 11:01:09 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 10:46:34 2011. Believe it or not, he got that monster from his friend, who had it sitting in a corner of his salvage yard on Liberty Avenue, but didn't want it. He restored it precisely because it was gaudy, clumsy, and, as he put it, "gives the tree-huggers agita when they see it"...LOL!I once had the opportunity to acquire a 1975 Cadillac/S&S ambulance (think of the movie Ghostbusters), in fairly decent condition, complete with a Federal Model Q mechanical siren and Mars lights. Today, I wish I'd done it. Those old Caddys weighed over three tons, got about half a block per gallon, and just stormed down the street like nobody's business. The last of them (built in 1980) were still in service with Century Ambulance and Keefe & Keefe in Queens when I first became an EMT in late 1984. The '70s did produce some truly awful American cars...but they were dramatic, I'll say that! |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 11:05:06 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Feb 8 11:00:35 2011. Anyone can drive a muscle car to chase the bad guys. Gene Hackman (and the stunt drivers) destroyed a brand-new '72 Chevy Chevelle, of all things, in the el-chase sequence of The french Connection. Chasing trains with Mommy's family car (the Chevelle had pushrods, IIRC)...now THAT's skill! LOL! |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Feb 8 11:06:05 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 11:01:09 2011. The 70's was a pretty lame decade for American car models. They killed the Mustang, for one and built crappy cars for the other. Vega, Pinto, Gremlin, Pacer were 70's cars as well as Citation and Granada. They sure did the Japs and Germans a favor back then lol.OTOH tho...leaded gas :D your pal, Fred |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 8 11:07:48 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 10:46:34 2011. Why would anyone bother restoring a '77 Town Car?Maybe they have a thing for big "boats" from that era . . . ?  |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 11:10:27 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 8 11:07:48 2011. Only the '65 Chrysler New Yorker was longer than the '77 TC, IIRC. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Dave on Tue Feb 8 11:16:32 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 11:05:06 2011. The car was a 1971 Pontiac LeMans, not a 1972 Chevy Chevelle. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 8 11:18:44 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 11:05:06 2011. Chasing trains with Mommy's family car (the Chevelle had pushrods, IIRC)The 505-horsepower Chevrolet Corvette ZO6 also features a pushrod V8. They didn't stick with the double-DOHC like the Mustang did (and the previous ZR1); they went back to overhead valves, and in the C5 body style, they got 385 horses out of it at first, and then pushed it up all the way to 405 horsepower in the 350 CID version. The present-day LS7 V8 (also a small block) displaces 427 cubic inches. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 11:20:14 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Dave on Tue Feb 8 11:16:32 2011. I stand corrected, but IIRC, both the Chevy and the Pontiac were built on the same platform, no? |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 11:22:06 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 8 11:18:44 2011. Yes, but there are 40 years of learning between the old 8-bangers and today's LS7, though. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 8 11:22:56 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Dave on Tue Feb 8 11:16:32 2011. Correct. If it had police modifications, it sure wasn't a mommy's car. You can hear the V8 under the hood . . . |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 11:25:25 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 8 11:22:56 2011. Did they actually offer the LeMans with a police package back then? THAT would make it much more than Mommy's cub scout shuttle...LOL! |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Dave on Tue Feb 8 11:51:57 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 8 11:22:56 2011. It did not have police modifications. The only thing "special" on the car was a police gumball (which you didn't see in the movie), so pedestrians knew to stay the heck out of the way!The Chevelle and LeMans were built on the same chassis. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 12:19:16 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Feb 8 11:00:35 2011. The same. That is a '68. I would like to have alloy wheels, though, if only not to lose the wheel covers like Bill Hickman (the actor/stunt driver who drove the car in the scene) did many times.Some trivia about that scene: 1) The collision that caused the damage to the Charger's left front corner occurred when Bill Hickman collided with a parked car that held the camera. That collision was not in the script but they kept the footage of the collision in the movie. 2) The producers of the movie had obtained permission from the city of San Francisco to conduct the chase scene on public roads at speeds up to 70 miles per hour. However, at some points during the scene, the Charger and Steve McQueen's Mustang GT 390 exceeded 110 miles per hour and outran the camera car following them. That scene is awesome but the rest of the movie is very very good too. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 12:23:23 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 11:05:06 2011. Sorry, JayZee, Hackman drove a 1971 Pontiac LeMans in that scene, not a '72 Chevelle. (See IMCDB.com) He could not have been driving a '72 model vehicle because the movie was shot in 1970 and 1971 and released in 1971.You're right about the pushrods, though. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 12:24:47 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 11:25:25 2011. No, police cruisers were bigger than the Chevelle/LeMans. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 12:27:01 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 12:23:23 2011. Yup, I said I stood corrected in an earlier post. Still one of my all-time favorite chase sequences, though. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 8 12:29:23 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 10:46:34 2011. Restoring them is fine. Using them for every day driving is another matter. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Feb 8 12:29:48 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 10:38:54 2011. When I was little, my parents would go to White Castle (usually the one on Atlantic and Cresent?) and they had the speaker where you would order and they'd bring the order out on the tray, which would hook onto your window. This was the early to mid-60s, after that, WC discontinued the service b/c the girls were getting robbed at night. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 12:34:35 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Fred G on Tue Feb 8 11:06:05 2011. Actually, American cars of the '70s were pretty good up until 1973 or so. That was when a couple of things happened:1) the federal government and insurance industry started to horn in, first requiring 5-mph bumpers and then catalytic converters so that cars could use unleaded fuel to reduce pollution. The insurance industry was also fed up about paying injury claims so they lobbied the auto manufacturers to produce less powerful engines overall. The result was that cars became uglier because of the bumpers and less powerful. By the time my 1975 Pontiac Grand Prix was built in November 1974, its 400 inch V8 was choked down to 180 hp, whereas the same engine produced 230 hp for the 1972 models. 2) The Arab oil embargo of 1974 caused long lines at gas stations and made people start to think about smaller, more efficient cars. Enter the Toyota Corolla and the Datsun B-210. Thanks to doses of both of these events, we got monstrosities like the 1974-78 Ford Mustang II, the Chevy Monza and the Chevette. Hot cars like the Corvette, Trans Am and Z-28 were dumbed down to shells of their former glories. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 8 12:39:03 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 11:10:27 2011. Pretty sad that the big-block 460 only had 208 horsepower for that year. If you stuck in a modern fuel-injected small block, it'd have more than enough horses and torque to move the 5000+ lb car in an adequate fashion, and be far more fuel-efficient to boot. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 8 12:42:04 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 12:34:35 2011. Meanwhile nowadays, the base-model 2011 Chevrolet Camaro V6 (3.6-liter) has 312 horsepower . . . |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Feb 8 12:53:41 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 12:27:01 2011. You should see the Bullitt chase sequence - - starts in slow motion then revs it up so fast, it's awesome. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Feb 8 12:58:29 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 12:34:35 2011. I didn't know that about insurance requirements but I was certain it was the gas prices that made them rush out economy cars that weren't up to speed and gave Toyota and Datsun an easy in. Jeez, a 180 horse V8.your pal, Fred |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Feb 8 14:02:27 2011, in response to The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 10:28:20 2011. This boat is almost 15 feet long bumper to bumper, and probably gets around 10 mpg.Try 19.5' long. 10 mpg is about right, but that could be improved with an aftermarket EFI unit and an overdrive transmission. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Feb 8 14:40:46 2011, in response to The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 10:28:20 2011. Yes, I remember the 70's and even into the 80's when you would drive on the Expressways there would always be disabled cars all over the side of the road. You don't see that nearly close to the numbers you did back then. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 8 14:49:27 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Feb 8 14:02:27 2011. 10 mpg is about right, but that could be improved with an aftermarket EFI unit and an overdrive transmissionNot much if you stay with a big block V8. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Feb 8 14:53:04 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 12:19:16 2011. More tidbits from the film:1. First film to use a fax machine. 2. The chase sequence was shot in multiple angles - - hence two cars (one of them a green VW Beetle) are shown at least four times. 3. Promoted the use of a seat belt - - new in those days. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 14:58:42 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Feb 8 14:53:04 2011. 1. It was called a "telecopier" then. And wow, was it slow and noisy. And I dig those old stencil sheets! I haven't seen one of those since I was in elementary school.2. Not only was it shot in multiple angles, it was shot in diverse parts of San Francisco, and then edited together to make it appear that all of the streets on the chase connected to one another. 3. IIRC, seat belts were optional equipment in American cars until about 1966. Rear belts didn't appear until the '80s. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 8 15:32:40 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Feb 8 12:29:48 2011. Sonic is like that except without the tray. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 15:37:51 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 8 12:42:04 2011. Agreed. The advances in engine technology and efficiency in just the past 15 years have been utterly remarkable. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Feb 8 15:41:57 2011, in response to The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 10:28:20 2011. i dont think todays cars are so that much great hell you cant even repair a car today yourself |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 15:50:53 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Fred G on Tue Feb 8 12:58:29 2011. Heh. That was nothing. The '75 Ford Mustang II had a V8 that made just 120 horses. The mid and late '70s were bad times for the domestic car industry from a technology and fun standpoint.The oil embargo and the insurance crackdown not only brought about the end of the muscle car era, it signalled the end of some legenday nameplates. The Dodge Charger became a Chrysler Cordoba clone for 1975 and the nameplate was gone altogether by 1978, replaced by the Dodge Mirada. The nameplate reappeared on some Dodge Omni-based coupes in the '80s, all powered by various 4 cylinder engines (!) that topped out at 146 horses. A V-8 Charger would not return until 2006, 28 years after the last one rolled off the line in Detroit. The Z-28 disappeared for awhile, leaving the Camaro RS as the hottest Camaro. When it came back, its hottest engine was the 350-inch V-8 making about 180-200 hp. In 1982, the car was completely redesigned and had a 305 V-8 making 165 hp. The Dodge Challenger disappeared after 1974. The nameplate returned in 1978 on a Japanese import from Mitsubishi powered by a 4-cylinder engine. Its twin was the Plymouth Sapporo. Those did not last long, as they were axed when Lee Iacocca came in with the K-car platform. The Challenger came back to life in 2008. The Trans Am soldiered on but by 1979 the 455 and 400 inch V8s were history. For one year, the T/A was fitted with a 403 inch V-8 made by OLDSMOBILE (!) but that was replaced by a 301-inch turbo engine that made 210 hp. Even the mighty Corvette was dumbed down to 185 horses at one point in the mid '70s. It was a sad, sad time. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Feb 8 15:53:54 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 8 15:32:40 2011. Unfortunately, the nearest Sonic to me is on Boynton Beach, some 50 miles away :( (I was just Googling, and there was supposed to be one opening on Fort Lauderdale beach around now, but no sign of it yet). |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Feb 8 16:32:58 2011, in response to The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 10:28:20 2011. Aw c'mon bro ... one can NOT have enough land yacht with a bench seat that puts your living room sofa to shame and a suspension that's smoother than your bed. :)Throw some dingo balls on the windshield, some fuzzy dice and a plastic Jesus, and you're all set for a LOW ride. Heh. |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Feb 8 16:33:26 2011, in response to The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 8 10:28:20 2011. But can the new cars do this:
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Feb 8 16:43:08 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by BMTLines on Tue Feb 8 10:36:46 2011. You'll be pleased to know that the A&W Root Beer drive-in in Lake George still does that. :) |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Feb 8 16:46:07 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by BMTLines on Tue Feb 8 16:33:26 2011. LOL. The sticker says, "Kill All Hippies". |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Feb 8 16:48:30 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Feb 8 16:46:07 2011. LOL - I didn't even notice that |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 8 18:00:05 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Feb 8 16:46:07 2011. Hippies suck! |
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| (731941) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Feb 8 21:02:31 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 8 12:34:35 2011. Actually, American cars of the '70s were pretty good up until 1973 or so.I once owned a 1972 Dodge Dart Swinger 2-door. Slant 6 engine was great. Bill Newkirk |
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| (731945) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Feb 8 21:11:05 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 8 12:29:23 2011. Restoring them is fine. Using them for every day driving is another matter.Using a restored classic car for everyday driving is insane. It's only for occasional driving, usually to vintage car meets. My friend owns 1962 Studebaker Hawk he bought on line and had it shipped to his house. He even went as far as building a garage just for the car. The car never comes outside in the winter. He even had a zone of heating looped into the garage, I kid you not ! Bill Newkirk |
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| (731946) | |
Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Feb 8 21:11:20 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Feb 8 21:02:31 2011. i remember that car very well & the engine was very reliable |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Feb 8 21:15:58 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Feb 8 15:41:57 2011. i dont think todays cars are so that much great hell you cant even repair a car today yourselfThat where a skilled mechanic comes in. Today's cars aren't as easy to fix as the old ones. It's a mess of hoses, wires and other stuff. Some cars, you have to remove the spark plugs from underneath ! Bill Newkirk |
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Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Feb 8 21:17:04 2011, in response to Re: The (Not So Good) Old Days, posted by BMTLines on Tue Feb 8 16:33:26 2011. Fuel by White Castle !Bill Newkirk |
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