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| Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online (610486) | |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 22:42:26 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 22:37:50 2010. The only thing it makes possible, it appears, is the fact that individuals can sue cities for being "sanctuary cities." It's really not a "show me your papers" law like people make it out to be, it's rather an "anti-sanctuary city" law. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Easy on Sun May 23 22:44:19 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 22:37:50 2010. The main thing is that some PDOTSOA (I know u like acronyms) didn't want to investigate whether people were illegal. The law now forces them to do so. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 22:45:45 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 22:42:26 2010. But can states provide the legal standing for such? |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 22:50:21 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by Easy on Sun May 23 22:44:19 2010. It's because Arizona has a VERY conservative state legislature with several VERY liberal cities. The cities of Tucson and Flagstaff are almost at LA level as far as liberalism. One county, Pima County, is also very liberal. Tempe, in Maricopa County, is a liberal haven in a moderate/conservative area. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 24 00:01:08 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 22:35:41 2010. It's not about the law, it's about the problem that needs to be addressed. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon May 24 00:47:01 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 22:45:45 2010. But can states provide the legal standing for such?That law just did. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon May 24 00:48:55 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by Easy on Sun May 23 22:44:19 2010. Those PDOTSOA are suing in court fot that very reason.Police officers swear an oath to uphold the US Constitution. A State cannot force them to violate that oath. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon May 24 01:48:22 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 24 00:01:08 2010. And it addresses the problem HOW? |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 24 07:02:11 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon May 24 01:48:22 2010. Everyone's talking about it, no? |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon May 24 08:52:54 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 24 07:02:11 2010. That doesn't address the problem. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Mon May 24 09:35:54 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 03:22:06 2010. A TRUE conservative is a GOOD thing. It means that you understand your heritage, you understand the true purpose of government, it means that when the going gets tough, you roll up your sleeves and HELP FIX things, you take care of your neighbors and they take care of you, and you GIVE of yourself to those who need your help.Can you identify any true conservatives today or are they long extinct ? Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 24 10:16:25 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon May 24 08:52:54 2010. It does. It addresses the fact, and makes absolutely clear that the Federal govt (under both parties) has done absolutely nothing to address this problem. It also struck a nerve with the vast majority of Americans, most of which overwhelmingly SUPPORT the law.It thrust the problem on the table. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 24 12:17:36 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 24 10:16:25 2010. IAWTP. It's more symbolic than anything. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon May 24 13:00:48 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 24 10:16:25 2010. Then you should point the finger (correctly) at Congress for not appropriating enough money; Border Patrol is being shortchanged by at least two orders of magnitude. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 24 14:52:05 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by Newkirk Images on Mon May 24 09:35:54 2010. Sadly, looks like Barry Goldwater and William F Buckley were the end of the line. I'm sure there are still some around, but between the teabaggers and Faux News, they won't see airtime. All you get to see or read anymore is kooks and libertarians. Where's Joe Pyne when America needs him? Heh. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AlM on Mon May 24 15:37:50 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 24 14:52:05 2010. Well, Barry Goldwater and William Buckley had pretty strong libertarian streaks. Both of them opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 because they though individuals had the right to serve whom they wanted in their businesses.They both eventually acknowledged that society was better off with pushing people where they didn't necessarily want to go on their own, but it took them a while. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon May 24 15:46:48 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AlM on Mon May 24 15:37:50 2010. I have always felt that any sensible libertarian on that issue had to realize that we weren't in 1964 leading off on a blank slate. State-mandated discrimination had been enforced for years. So I regard people who ignore that history of the state prescribing racial segregation, well, ignorant. If we were writing on a blank slate, it's different, of course, but the fact is that we weren't. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 24 16:06:31 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AlM on Mon May 24 15:37:50 2010. That it did, and yes, you're right. But those libertarian aspects were taken from the original conservative beliefs that people could work things out for themselves generally and that with some education, people would see the light on their own. They surely underestimated the power of the stupid.Not to defend their position back the in any way, but both came from an entirely different "time" in America. Goldwater and Arizona did not come from a Jim Crow mentality, nor did Buckley from New York/Connecticut. And while there was racism in both places, it was nothing compared to the deep south. And at the time, the deep south was pretty much not much of a national factor and was largely ignored by the rest of the US until the freedom rides brought it all to the forefront nationally. If you talk to people who are in their 70's and 80's now, you'll see that they largely didn't get it either. After all, it wasn't until the end of Roosevelt's years and particularly Truman that the issue even came up much. Both of them, after seeing the violence in the late 50's and early 60's quickly came around once they saw what they had never noticed before. And as the GOP went for their "southern strategy" Goldwater in particular lost all love for the party's leadership and told them so. By the time the 80's came around, he walked away. For that age group, that was quite the reversal ... |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 24 18:05:27 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon May 24 13:00:48 2010. Nobody would give a shit about a resolution that expresses the sense of the people of Arizona that the Government of the United States is acting with insufficient urgency at the problem of undocumented immigrants entering into and remaining within the United States. This law however got people talking. And that may be its most important aspect. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Charles G on Wed May 26 09:43:25 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AlM on Sun May 23 09:28:27 2010. They're also toast in a few decades if they don't keep a reasonable share of the Hispanic vote. Legal immigration and growth of the existing American population of Hispanic descent will do them in otherwise.Only if you assume that people vote the way they do because of the color of their skin and not because of their economic/social position. The idea that non-Cuban Hispanics will continue to vote Democratic from now until the end of time is sheer folly. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed May 26 09:49:46 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by Charles G on Wed May 26 09:43:25 2010. The idea that all of those illegal immigrants will be automatic Democrat votes is also sheer folly...which is why pro-amnesty people need to stop and think: Be careful what you wish for, for you just might get it. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Wed May 26 10:21:29 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by Charles G on Wed May 26 09:43:25 2010. The idea that non-Cuban Hispanics will continue to vote Democratic from now until the end of time is sheer folly.That's likely true. But with two other demographics that strongly favor Democrats - Blacks and Jews - the strong asymmetry has persisted well after the time when many members of those demographics are squarely in the bourgeoisie. Probably prominent GOP social views also make it hard for members of these demographics to join, e.g., anti-abortion, evangelical, the presence of paleocons, etc. Since Hispanics are an exploding demographic, How the asymmetry leans and how much it leans will be very important to party politics. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed May 26 11:54:14 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AlM on Sun May 23 09:28:27 2010. The idea that Hispanics, including those people granted amnesty would be locks to vote Democrat though, even today, is a folly. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Wed May 26 12:05:44 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed May 26 11:54:14 2010. The idea that Hispanics, including those people granted amnesty would be locks to vote Democrat though, even today, is a folly.If memory serves, a Republican is Governor of Puerto Rico. Mind you, he's in the same bad shape as most governors, so that might not last long. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed May 26 12:19:50 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by trainsarefun on Wed May 26 12:05:44 2010. Yeah, but that should also blow a hole in the water in people thinking that if Puerto Rico is granted statehood, it will be 5 Democrats; I believe that it will be 3 Dems and 2 Reps. |
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