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| You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! (559425) | |
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You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Feb 8 19:30:49 2010 Nothing necessarily wrong with the theory, it's just that those now advocating the theory that total democracy breed chaos are the same types who were championing chaos and über-democracy just 5 years ago:The mob must be controlled now that I am am no longer part of it |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Feb 8 22:35:04 2010, in response to You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Feb 8 19:30:49 2010. Uh, what democracy are you talking about? We were never a democracy, never have been, and never will be.We live in a REPUBLIC. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Feb 8 22:38:05 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Feb 8 22:35:04 2010. You're confused. Our form of government is a representative democracy. It's only a "republic" insofar as the politicians represent the people that elect them. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 8 23:12:03 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Feb 8 22:38:05 2010. Though this is news to nobody, you're an idiot ...Article IV Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Feb 8 23:26:25 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 8 23:12:03 2010. you're an idiotOoooooh. High praise from a train crasher . . . and of course you misinterpret Article IV Section 4 which has to do with states and not the federal government. (And I was going to ask you what article in the Constitution talks about the "principles of subsidiarity and proportionality" too, just to see if you'll make up an answer.) |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Feb 9 00:37:37 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Feb 8 23:26:25 2010. That's your comeback? Heh.
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 00:45:28 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Feb 9 00:37:37 2010. Hey . . . you're the one always telling me about the "humor" thang. Ain't no fail; you beat me there with the unwarranted poisonal attack . . . so thar. |
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| (559530) | |
Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 9 07:02:28 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Feb 8 23:26:25 2010. Article IV Section 4 is a guarantee to the States, from the federal government, of the type of governance they can expect. There's also the Pledge Of Allegiance, remember?"I pledge allegiance, to the flag, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands..." |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by docstox on Tue Feb 9 07:34:19 2010, in response to You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Feb 8 19:30:49 2010. I read this article by a leftist liberal in the leftist liberal New York Magazine.He compares today's tea bagger's to the same "mob of people" who committed a "zany" act of rebellion against Britain.He conveniently forgets to mention that this "zany" mob was pissed off at excessive taxation imposed upon the colonies by the arrogant British.The attitude of the British was very similar to the elitist leftist liberal attitude towards the "masses" of idiotic tea baggers we see today.That same arrogant attitude existed in the colonies by the British towards the colonials.The writer states that the tea baggers are a "dangerous" threat towards our constitutional way of government.He conveniently fails to mention again the tactics leftist groups use, rioting blacks burning down Newark in 1967, campus takeover of Columbia in 1968 by leftist students,homosexuals marching in parades half naked, to exert thier "democratic" right of free speech.I saw it al;l as I lived through it.Apparently, the left can use the same tactics tea baggers use, and it is no threat to our democracy at all. The tea bag movement has the liberal left squirming in their panties, and that is why this article was written, trying to accuse them of being a threat to our constitutional way of government.It's a lame attempt by the liberal left, such as trying to throttle conservative news outlets (Obama's obsession with Fox), as these outlets limit their power.Perhaps if they listen to the electorate, things like VA, NJ or Brown's election in MA, would niot have occured. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Feb 9 07:41:26 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by docstox on Tue Feb 9 07:34:19 2010. Awesome post. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Feb 9 08:07:48 2010, in response to You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Feb 8 19:30:49 2010. Did not Tom Tancredo at the big Tea Party gala just a few days ago claim that a literacy test could have stopped the election of Barack Obama?Partisans do this sort of thing all of the time. But you happen to just rip one's sides hypocrisy. Telling? |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by docstox on Tue Feb 9 08:18:29 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Feb 9 08:07:48 2010. It's free speech.The electorate can analyze this and come to thier own conclusions.If individuals within a group make statements that diminishes their credibilty, the Independent majority will reject that group soon enough.What I found reprehensible in the New York Magazine article was that leftist group activity is portrayed as acceptible while rightist groups are a "dangerous threat".I want all of these groups to have the right to their opinions and the Independents will sift through all of it and make the choices. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 9 11:18:21 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by docstox on Tue Feb 9 07:34:19 2010. The problem with such an analysis is that the Teabaggers represent the Tories during the American Revolution, that is those who wanted to keep things as they were because they were fearful of the radical changes being brought by the Revolutionaries.They were wrong and un-American then and they are wrong and un-American now. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 9 11:58:43 2010, in response to You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Feb 8 19:30:49 2010. FALSE. If you look back on my old posts, I've ALWAYS been against democracy. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 9 12:20:17 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 9 11:18:21 2010. The problem with such an analysis is that the Teabaggers represent the Tories during the American Revolution, that is those who wanted to keep things as they were because they were fearful of the radical changes being brought by the Revolutionaries.You are wrong. All revolutions are fueled by a desire to change the status quo. The current Tea Party movement does not seek to maintain an alleged status quo, it seeks to CHANGE it into something new, into something never before seen. They may use past examples to justify present change, but that's a common tactic of any revolutionary. Lenin did it. MLK Jr. did it. Jesus Christ did it. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 9 12:20:53 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 9 11:58:43 2010. I wasn't targeting you, Bootlegger Joe. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 9 12:25:58 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 00:45:28 2010. Sorry, Captain Tinfoil is right here. We are a Republic. In a democracy, Congress could simply pass a law establishing a state religion through a simple majority vote. In a republic, there are rules which thwart this. This is why the American form of government has survived intact for nearly 230 years, while governments in Italy have only lasted a few years, or in a few cases, months.American democracy has succeeded because it has had limitations put on it. Hitler could never have done here what he did to Germany in 1933. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 12:52:24 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 9 12:25:58 2010. Sorry, Captain Tinfoil is right here. We are a RepublicNo, he's not right in that sense. There are multitudes of undemocratic republics around the globe. We're the most democratic out of any government, even Switzerland. American democracy has succeeded because it has had limitations put on it. Hitler could never have done here what he did to Germany in 1933 The Weimar Republic was a social democracy. There was no true democracy there. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 12:53:18 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 9 07:02:28 2010. Article IV Section 4 is a guarantee to the States, from the federal government, of the type of governance they can expectNo, that's not what it says. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 12:54:34 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by docstox on Tue Feb 9 07:34:19 2010. Don't say "teabaggers". That's the label the left likes to use. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 9 12:55:23 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 12:53:18 2010. OK, Olog, since you consider yourself a Constitutional scholar, what does Article IV, Section 4 say? |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 12:55:24 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 9 11:18:21 2010. the Teabaggers represent the Tories during the American RevolutionFalse. The Tories were the hoity-toities in New York City, for example. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 12:59:07 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 9 12:55:23 2010. It says that the United States shall guarantee to every state in the Union a Republican form of government; doesn't say that applies to the federal government. The federal government is definitely a representative democracy, which is one form of republic but not the only form, which is why the specification is necessary. (All that a republic does is have politicians represent the people, whether they are elected or not. That's why the worst dictatorships have the nerve to call themselves "republics", e.g. Red China, the USSR, ad nauseam.) |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 9 13:01:08 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 12:59:07 2010. But then the federal government is, by definition, a republic, no? |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 13:12:00 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 9 13:01:08 2010. I said that the form of government is representative democracy. A republic is not a whole form of government; it's only a part of it. There is no such thing as a pure, standalone republic. So yes, the federal government incorporates the republican model because a representative democracy is not "representative" without it. Howzat? |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 9 13:18:18 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 13:12:00 2010. There is no such thing as a pure, standalone republic.Rome was. Senators never actually represented a province in the Senate. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 13:32:14 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 9 13:18:18 2010. Rome had dictators, though, and during the "Republic" era, the aristocracy had control, making it feudalist at its core. The magistrates and consuls held dictatorial powers too. The Republic was just the Empire in embryo. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 9 13:43:13 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 13:32:14 2010. True, but until Marius, dictatorial powers were controlled by law. Specific emergencies had to exist, and said power had to be surrendered after 6 months. That just proves my point that Rome was a republic in the strictest sense.It doesn't matter who the elected officials represented, it's about how they could do it. Republics have strict rules which nobody is above and that could not be changed with a simple majority. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 9 13:43:24 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 9 12:20:53 2010. I don't get the reference. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by docstox on Tue Feb 9 15:31:07 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 9 11:18:21 2010. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I respectfully disagree. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Feb 9 17:58:03 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 9 11:18:21 2010. There is no problem with the Tea Party. They are regular Americans, worried about our future. If they are "radicals" as you claim, they aren't showing it in their behavior. At least not weekend, anyway.The only mistake they made was hiring Palin and the WND.com guy. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 9 20:19:05 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 9 12:20:17 2010. The current Tea Party movement does not seek to maintain an alleged status quo, it seeks to CHANGE it into something new, into something never before seen.Wrong. The Tea Party didn't exist before Jan 20 2009 when the Change came. They feared the Change and will fight the Change. Their only objective is the status quo-ante Jan 2009. They are the TORIES just like their 18th Century brethren despised July 4 1776 and everything it represented. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 9 20:31:01 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Feb 9 17:58:03 2010. They see Obama and Co as radicals just like 18th Century Tories saw Washington, Jefferson and Co as radicals, 19th Century Teabaggers saw Lincoln as a radical and 20th Century teabaggers saw FDR, Truman and JFK as radicals.They will always be on the wrong side of history. |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 20:43:23 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 9 20:19:05 2010. You need to spice up your jokes a bit. They aim for the right target, but end up in the molasses . . . |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 9 20:44:09 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 9 20:31:01 2010. ". . . we walts to the melody . . ." |
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Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic! |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 9 21:18:18 2010, in response to Re: You know what's wrong with democracy? It's gotten too darn democratic!, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Feb 9 13:01:08 2010. But then the federal government is, by definition, a republic, no?It's a Republic because it's not a Monarchy. The section of the Constitution that you mention guarantees that none of the States shall ever become monarchies, that is, they shall not have a Prince or a Duke as their head. It appears that nobody here knows what a Republic is though strangely enough, Olog is the only one who come close. |
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