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| Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost (553322) | |
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Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 24 00:25:21 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 23 18:34:49 2010. Never. Some people are dumb. |
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| (553652) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 24 00:26:36 2010, in response to Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Jan 23 13:41:22 2010. So sad what happened to Stella D'oro. |
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| (553680) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 24 02:53:42 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Jan 23 21:50:25 2010. The thing is, that if the unskilled laborers were to leave, leaving a smaller pool of such laborers, it would increase the wages for those who remain, giving them the opportunity to afford to live here in some marginal area. Even if the wages don't go up, fewer people means less demand for housing. |
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| (553681) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 24 02:55:29 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 23 23:06:38 2010. I disagree with that principle. |
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| (553690) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by tracksionmotor on Sun Jan 24 04:15:58 2010, in response to Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Jan 23 13:41:22 2010. BIMBO BAKERIES? |
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| (553711) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 24 11:06:06 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by tracksionmotor on Sun Jan 24 04:15:58 2010. BIMBO BAKERIES?Largest in the country, yes. Several brands. They do have a presence in NYC. |
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| (553783) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by busdude2 on Sun Jan 24 15:05:45 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 23 17:28:37 2010. If that happened you would pay double on everything you buy. Unions suck companies dry. |
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| (553792) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Jan 24 15:49:36 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 23 23:06:38 2010. If lower wages means higher employment, then I am all for it.Yes, you'd be all for it until the lower wage employees begin using various forms of public assistance in order to supplement their wages in order to maintain residence in New York. |
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| (553811) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Jan 24 16:40:31 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Jan 23 18:55:59 2010. Impeachment willing! |
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| (553818) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Jan 24 17:17:06 2010, in response to Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Jan 23 13:41:22 2010. Don't be so fast to blame or criticize the union.The union went on strike two weeks after their contract expired. The owners wanted wage and benefits reductions. The union asked to see a copy of the company's financial statement, which management refused to disclose. The union filed a complaint with the NLRB, which determined the employer committed an unfair labor practice act by not disclosing the 2007 audited financial statement. The employer still refused to disclose so the NLRB took the employer to court. The Administrative Law Judge ruled the employer improperly refused to bargain with the union by failing to provide them with a copy of the audited statement. Rather than comply with the judge's decision shut the owners chose to close the factory. It sounds to me like the company was trying to avoid complying with the Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act (WARN), requires at least 60 days notice of mass layoffs, unemployment insurance benefits, job retraining, and re-employment services. NOt inexpensive but it's the law. Blame the private equity company that bought Stella Doro in 2006. They wanted to cut wages; knew they couldn't doing so without bargaining with the union; so they decided to cut and run without paying up as required. Typical punk-ass dickweeds, trying to get around the federal law rather than manning up and doing what the law requires. |
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| (553852) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 24 18:44:29 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by Dave on Sun Jan 24 17:17:06 2010. This is a comment on the Stella D'oro factory closing? For some reason, the topic that I posted for that seems to have disappeared. |
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| (553865) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Jan 24 18:57:29 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by Dave on Sun Jan 24 17:17:06 2010. At the same time, what state did Kraft Foods leave Stella D'oro in? |
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| (553869) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 24 19:02:52 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Jan 24 18:57:29 2010. At the same time, what state did Kraft Foods leave Stella D'oro in?They did one thing right - after they screwed up, they sold it off to become some other firm's problem. In the industry that I know best, real estate, a lot of hedge fund/venture capital types who partnered up with dream big schemes about how efficient their management skills would be really ended up showing just the opposite. It's hilarious to those of us who saw their ineptitude coming. |
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| (553922) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 24 20:50:37 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by busdude2 on Sun Jan 24 15:05:45 2010. I'm against restraints on trade, including where an employer has the government tell him what kind of contracts he can sign with his employees. |
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| (554009) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Jan 24 22:10:14 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 24 18:44:29 2010. Yes. |
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| (554013) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Jan 24 22:12:09 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 24 19:02:52 2010. One more case of people who confuse having money with having brains/experience in a different field of expertise. It's like many doctors and lawyers who think they are investment whiz-kids because they have money, when the opposite is usually true. |
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| (554029) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 24 22:26:41 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by Dave on Sun Jan 24 22:12:09 2010. Stuyvesant Town/Peter Cooper Village has been a riot for me. They overpaid handsomely, vastly overestimated the amount to people they could impose luxury decontrol of rents on, took out a tremendous amount of debt, agreed to a tax rebate program with the government that said that they would agree to curb rent in certain ways which they then didn't, lost a lawsuit to that effect, and then they had the honor of being basically the one entity rejected for bailout funds from the New York Fed since, like, Lehman Brothers! Reportedly, the mortgages are going into default.There were others too who did eerily similar things. But I think that the BlackRock/Tishman Speyer Stuy Town deal may go down as one of the worst deals in real estate history, at least in modern times. |
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| (554095) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Jan 25 06:49:25 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 24 22:26:41 2010. I (my family) lived in Sty Town 50 years ago (1958 - 62). I can remember the playground near our apartment and my dad, a"h, teaching me how to ride a bike there. |
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| (554115) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Jan 25 08:50:56 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 24 22:26:41 2010. I can understand BlackRock. But isn't Tishman Speyer an REIT? If so, how did they get that one so wrong? |
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| (554116) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Jan 25 08:52:58 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Jan 25 08:50:56 2010. Reading some articles on it, I'm reading that this deal was financed by $4.4B in debt. Isn't that over-leveraging a residential complex a tad much?The property's worth is now an estimated $1.8 billion. |
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| (554125) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by Charles G on Mon Jan 25 10:35:00 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 24 22:26:41 2010. "But I have an MBA!"What passes for knowledge is laughable. |
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| (554128) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jan 25 10:47:43 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Jan 25 08:50:56 2010. But isn't Tishman Speyer an REIT? If so, how did they get that one so wrong?I don't know. They had a terrible business model. To make money, you buy low, and sell higher. For them to have made money, the numbers were simply not there. They had dream scenarios that just weren't based in reality about how many units they would vacate, what the rent would be, and how they could get the government to pay for a lot of it. As I said, it will go down as quite possibly the worst real estate deal in modern times. |
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| (554130) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Mon Jan 25 10:48:03 2010, in response to Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Jan 23 13:41:22 2010. What they should have done is shutdown the old plant, sell whatever they could and build a new modernize plant in lets say around the Hunts Point area. With tax breaks and all....they could have done it. I can't imagine how much it will now cost to ship the products from NC to the markets up in the Northeast now. Yea...the cost of living is cheaper....but not by much. NC just like NY has to scramble with state budget costs. NO state is exempt from tight state budget costs. |
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| (554132) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jan 25 10:49:43 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by Charles G on Mon Jan 25 10:35:00 2010. "But I have an MBA!"What passes for knowledge is laughable. I agree completely. |
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| (554134) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jan 25 10:51:24 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by Dave on Mon Jan 25 06:49:25 2010. Many people did. There are over 11k units in the Stuy Town/PCV complexes. And aside from the ugly legacy of segregation and a giveaway of public money, it's seemingly always been a place to raise families.Just today, it was announced that the creditors will have the complexes. Now that's jingle mail!!!! |
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| (554138) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Jan 25 11:13:50 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 24 22:26:41 2010. To add: The towel was officially thrown in today. The creditors now own the complex. |
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| (554148) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Jan 25 11:29:07 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by streetcarman1 on Mon Jan 25 10:48:03 2010. Good suggestions! Having worked with private equity firms, their goal is to sell the company after a few years of ownership (after cutting expenses to a bare minimum) and get their money out for a nice profit. They have no desire to run the company long-term and couldn't give a rats-ass about the best interests of the stakeholders and/or employees. |
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| (554154) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Mon Jan 25 11:38:11 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by Dave on Mon Jan 25 11:29:07 2010. Agreed....110% like when they buy up real estate as well...they don't care about the tenants and their needs at all... |
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| (554243) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by busdude2 on Mon Jan 25 16:05:58 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by streetcarman1 on Mon Jan 25 10:48:03 2010. Much cheaper to ship products and to get out from under the unions control and greed. They will do great with cheaper payroll and taxes, healthcare etc.... |
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| (554359) | |
Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jan 25 23:49:44 2010, in response to Re: Old London Melba Toast factory in Bronx relocating to NC - 228 jobs lost, posted by streetcarman1 on Mon Jan 25 10:48:03 2010. What they should have done is shutdown the old plant, sell whatever they could and build a new modernize plant in lets say around the Hunts Point area. With tax breaks and all....they could have done it.Tax breaks only do so much, and they have to be supported by effectively higher taxes on others. Yadkinville, NC can match whatever tax breaks NYC gives, and labor there is much cheaper and non-union. Yea...the cost of living is cheaper....but not by much. Look it up before speculating. NC just like NY has to scramble with state budget costs. We're much bigger spenders. And we lose a lot of federal tax dollars to welfare states. |
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