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| (53269) | |
Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 10:42:53 2005 This Woman Shortage thing is becoming a major obsession with me, to the point where it's actually beginning to interfere with my life. But to prove that it's not just a figment of my imagination, I offer the following item from the "Online Dating Insider" blog. At least the situation in Manhattan is not as dire as in most parts of the country, I'll admit that:The male/female ratio of online dating One of the facts of online dating is that there are more men than women online. For example, Match.com recently told ABC News that 59% of their subscribers are men and 41% are women. You can confirm the ratio yourself by doing searches for profiles. The high male/female ratio of online dating is not the fault of the online dating services, but it reflects the unfortunate realities of the real world. Over a decade ago I recall reading a New York Times article that stated that there were approximately 6 single men in their twenties for every five single women. How is this possible? Aren't there an approximately equal number of boy and girl babies born each year? The biggest contributor to the skewed ratio is serial polygamy. A man in his twenties marries a woman in her twenties, then in his thirties he divorces her and marries another woman in her twenties, then in his forties he marries another women in her twenties. This happens. I have a friend who's in his fifties and his current wife is in her twenties. There is also parallel polygamy. My sister, when she was in her twenties, knew a guy who had two girlfriends at the same time (neither, of course, knew of the other one's existence). And at the same time he was also hitting on my sister, trying to bring his harem up to three! What's going on in the real world is reflected in the virtual world of online dating. In fact, it's skewed worse than in the real world, because online dating sites attract a much greater percentage of people who have trouble finding dates. So not only will there be more men, there will be more undesirable (for whatever reasons) members of both sexes. Men who use online dating services will initially try to contact the few women they are interested in. But because the desirable women receive more emails than they can respond to, male subscribers eventually figure out that they have to send out massive numbers of emails because the response rate is so low. So we wind up in the situation we're in now. Female subscribers to online dating services receive more emails than they can respond to, and male subscribers send out large numbers of emails and rarely get a response. Women actually complain about this, but I think they are in a far better situation than men. If you are a man, how do you fix the problem? The answer is that you need to move to Manhattan. There are more single women in Manhattan than men. If you do searches in Match.com for Manhattan, you will find about 50% more female profiles than male profiles. The opposite of the ratio for the rest of the United States. Living in Manhattan and using Match.com, I've been quite happy with how many women respond to my emails. And being a nerdy IT professional, I'm not a high priority catch for most women. They'd rather be going out with the good looking athletic men. You also get to meet women of a caliber you'd never find in Phoenix, Arizona, like graduates of Harvard and Yale law schools. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Aug 18 10:50:25 2005, in response to Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 10:42:53 2005. Peter,Are you looking for a girlfriend? Is this what I'm really reading here? From your posts on Subtalk and Subchat I gather you're somebody who could be very interesting to a lady (not counting the "gross posts" if you get my drift). You're just not going to the right venues...try signing up for events at the Manhattan Chamber of Commerce. They have an Entrepreneur's Niight type events, social mixers...or MoMA events, or invest in a $150 ad inNew York Magazine and see what happens. You'll spend a least that much, if not more, on dinner and a Broadway show, so why not make a little investment up front? |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Thu Aug 18 10:56:57 2005, in response to Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 10:42:53 2005. Solution: Look at ways of enhancing the desirability of older women. |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by Harry Beck on Thu Aug 18 10:57:35 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Aug 18 10:50:25 2005. Peter is married and has grown children (two daughters I think). |
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Re: There is no woman shortage; only open-minded guys |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Aug 18 10:57:45 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Aug 18 10:50:25 2005. I am good friends with close to half a dozen very eligible single women in New York and Philly (a couple of them divorced, one widowed) of age ranging from 20s to 50s, all of whom are:1) attractive (foxes) 2) intelligent and college educated 3) Personable and charming 4) Available and looking If I weren't happily married, if I were single and looking right now, there would be half a dozen minus one (so I wouldn't be looking any more and neither would she). What I'm short on are single guy friends to introduce them to. I did make one of them a birthday gift of a personals ad, which I wrote and she approved (and she got dates with a couple of wealthy men out of it). I'm telling you they are out there. All around you. Maybe one of them is somebody in plain view every day, but you don't realize it and blow her off... |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Aug 18 10:58:48 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Thu Aug 18 10:56:57 2005. How about enhancing men's judgment (and women's)? |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Aug 18 11:00:00 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Harry Beck on Thu Aug 18 10:57:35 2005. He is?Well, in that case I apologize for presuming that this was his purpose. (Does his wife read his posts?) But I stand by my other comments. |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Thu Aug 18 11:00:38 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Aug 18 10:58:48 2005. That, too. |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 11:01:40 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Aug 18 10:50:25 2005. Are you looking for a girlfriend? Is this what I'm really reading here?From your posts on Subtalk and Subchat I gather you're somebody who could be very interesting to a lady (not counting the "gross posts" if you get my drift). Actually, I'm married. As to why the Woman Shortage bothers me so, consider this analogy: You're walking down the sidewalk, minding your own business, when some bricks fall off the upper part of a building and slam into the sidewalk ten feet in front of you. Even though the bricks didn't hit you, I can pretty much guarantee that you'll be thinking of the incident for a long time to come - if you'd been walking just a little bit faster ... And so it is with me and the Woman Shortage. If just a few things had worked out differently, I could be single, and would find myself in a nearly hopeless position, just like so many other men. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: There is no woman shortage; only open-minded guys |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Thu Aug 18 11:01:58 2005, in response to Re: There is no woman shortage; only open-minded guys, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Aug 18 10:57:45 2005. I'm single, but I ain't wealthy. Same goes for most guys. |
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Re: There is no woman shortage; only open-minded guys |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Thu Aug 18 11:02:23 2005, in response to Re: There is no woman shortage; only open-minded guys, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Thu Aug 18 11:01:58 2005. I mean most single guys! |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 11:04:06 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Harry Beck on Thu Aug 18 10:57:35 2005. Peter is married and has grown children (two daughters I think).Close. 20-year-old stepdaughter and 16-y.o. stepson. And seven cats. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: There is no woman shortage; only open-minded guys |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Aug 18 11:14:29 2005, in response to Re: There is no woman shortage; only open-minded guys, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Thu Aug 18 11:02:23 2005. Neither was I. But that really didn't enter into it.In Los Angeles, when I was in college, $$$, a nice car and athletic prowess were factors, and I couldn't get a date to save my life. If I did manage to hold a young woman's attention long enough to see if a date could be in my future, the end of the conversation would be almost as bad as this: Me: "I've really enjoyed talking to you. You're very nice. Would you like to go to a movie with me sometime, or check out the ABC Restaurant for dinner?" The Girl (flashing her badge) "Undercover nerd police. Turn around and put your hands behind your back (into the radio: "Code 216, one in custody, send the wagon) What made you think you're allowed to ask anybody out to dinner, let alone me?" In New York that changed. It also helped that I was in residency and had an easily identifiable profession, but that wasn't the main point. The fact was, a lady who was every (actually, even more) bit as attractive as the LA version and much more charming met me at the subway without blinking, went to dinner with me, the museum, the theatre, whatever, and the situation was mine to handle. It doesn't mean she became my girlfriend. But it meant I could have a very decent social life. And if she didn't work out long-term, hey there's 4 million more where she came from... |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Aug 18 11:17:21 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 11:04:06 2005. That's great. So now you get to watch your kids' social skills in action...I'm sure they'll do fine... |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Aug 18 11:19:08 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 11:01:40 2005. No, wrong, not hopeless at all. You're in the most "target-rich" place in the world (OK, Moscow or London would give NY a run for the money). You just have to tune the senses a little, that's all... |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Thu Aug 18 11:33:17 2005, in response to Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 10:42:53 2005. Why do very big cities draw single women? |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Aug 18 11:52:37 2005, in response to Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 10:42:53 2005. most women I meet do not appear to be short.. |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Aug 18 19:33:18 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Thu Aug 18 11:33:17 2005. Why do very big cities draw single women?Cities are bastions of professional, high-ranking college educated work (with the exception of engineering and science). In turn, the rate of women going to college has outstripped the number of men attending since the 1980s. Basically, while men are looking for nonexistant work that doesn't require a college degree, women are going to college and completing degrees in larger and larger numbers. In addition, the men who do complete college, many of them are much more likely to stay at home (in the suburbs) than to leave. |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Aug 18 19:45:54 2005, in response to Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 10:42:53 2005. This Woman Shortage thing is becoming a major obsession with meWe've noticed. Get a short woman already. |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 21:42:56 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Aug 18 19:33:18 2005. Why do very big cities draw single women?Cities are bastions of professional, high-ranking college educated work (with the exception of engineering and science). In turn, the rate of women going to college has outstripped the number of men attending since the 1980s. But then again, the people who died in the World Trade Center attack were largely male, something like 75% even if you discount the FDNY and NYPD deaths. The mostly professional-level jobs in the WTC were a sausage party. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Aug 18 23:08:57 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Thu Aug 18 10:56:57 2005. Solution: Look at ways of enhancing the desirability of older women.We're already doing that. Look at increasing number of cosmetic surgery procedures are performed in this country. Some clinics now offer financing for those who can't afford to pay upfront. |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Aug 18 23:11:02 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 21:42:56 2005. But then again, the people who died in the World Trade Center attack were largely male, something like 75% even if you discount the FDNY and NYPD deaths. The mostly professional-level jobs in the WTC were a sausage party.IIRC, the professional female contingent of NYC works uptown in various diverse services, corporate HQs and media. |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Aug 18 23:18:02 2005, in response to Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 10:42:53 2005. Oh finally, I have the time to reply to the top post...I guess I could sit down and write, you're right, that I have no hope, and nearly no chance of finding a g/f. But I won't... Some have attributed the drop to decreasing infant mortality rates. Since the 1940s, we've had more male births than female births. And with the drop in infant mortality, the male babies who were more likely to die off are more likely to live now. The extra male births have created a glut of males. In addition, with the religious life less common among the young, it's another pool of men who previously didn't date is currently looking for dates. The thing about the woman shortage is that coincidentally, the women that I know have trouble finding men. Manhattan is filled with single women who complain that they're not able to find men. The problem isn't that there aren't any men around, but there aren't any men who meet their standards. For some women, if your salary isn't above $125K, and your position isn't something that they can brag about, you're quite useless for them. Women have a tendency to avoid marrying downwards, and with increasing numbers of women in college and in professional fields, you're going to find that many of them will refuse to date the busdriver or mechanic. Remember, the women on Sex and the City found men. The only thing was that they just weren't happy with them. BTW, hasn't the bump in immigration rates in the States during the 1980s and 1990s produced an extra bump in terms of male/female ratios? It's usually young men who flee their countries. |
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Re: There is no woman shortage; only open-minded guys |
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Posted by BrooklynQB on Fri Aug 19 08:03:43 2005, in response to Re: There is no woman shortage; only open-minded guys, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Aug 18 11:14:29 2005. Ahhh.....NY.Hey Ron, do you think a funny, chubby, honest, and all-around good guy like me can swim in NY waters? |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Aug 19 13:36:17 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Aug 18 23:18:02 2005. Some have attributed the drop to decreasing infant mortality rates. Since the 1940s, we've had more male births than female births. And with the drop in infant mortality, the male babies who were more likely to die off are more likely to live now. The extra male births have created a glut of males.Good point. I don't believe, however, that the ratio of male to female births is so different even today that it could be a major factor behind the Woman Shortage. Especially when you consider that males remain far more likely than females to die in adolescence or young adulthood. For some women, if your salary isn't above $125K, and your position isn't something that they can brag about, you're quite useless for them. Women have a tendency to avoid marrying downwards, and with increasing numbers of women in college and in professional fields, you're going to find that many of them will refuse to date the busdriver or mechanic. I have to disagree here. What women flock toward are not necessarily highly paid executive types, but studly Alpha Males. Men who are nerdy or unathletic are completely undesirable. Now, it's true that men who have high-paid jobs indeed often are Alphas, but there are exceptions, most notably the stereotypical IT professional. BTW, hasn't the bump in immigration rates in the States during the 1980s and 1990s produced an extra bump in terms of male/female ratios? It's usually young men who flee their countries. Quite possible. You'd have to take the ethnicity of immigrants into account, as most people prefer to date within their own ethnic groups. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: There is no woman shortage; only open-minded guys |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Aug 19 14:00:42 2005, in response to Re: There is no woman shortage; only open-minded guys, posted by BrooklynQB on Fri Aug 19 08:03:43 2005. blub blub |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Aug 19 14:04:39 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 21:42:56 2005. Whoa there! Biased sample! The original WTC was a bastion of the finance industry and was more representative of downtown stock-market and financial jockeys than of the Manhattanese workforce as a whole. What's to say the lassies don't dominate some other industries?Also, 9/11 happened 3 and a half to 4 yrs ago. |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Aug 20 01:20:07 2005, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Aug 19 13:36:17 2005. Some have attributed the drop to decreasing infant mortality rates. Since the 1940s, we've had more male births than female births. And with the drop in infant mortality, the male babies who were more likely to die off are more likely to live now. The extra male births have created a glut of males.Good point. I don't believe, however, that the ratio of male to female births is so different even today that it could be a major factor behind the Woman Shortage. Especially when you consider that males remain far more likely than females to die in adolescence or young adulthood. So the next question of course is, what have decreased crime rates and decreasing suicide rates in the US done to the supply of men available? If they’re not dying and getting shot, then how are they affecting the current ratios. In addition, in previous times, a war was a great way to dump excess men off, but with low casualty rates, the formerly excess men are coming back home alive. In addition, fighting in foreign lands was a great way to find a significant other (read: war brides), but with the recent major conflicts in Muslim lands, the amount of war brides will be pretty low. BTW, how do imprisoned men count towards census results. I don’t think they’re counted towards the results of their home communities. If they are, it would have an interesting effect on the ratios. If the ratio is high, but larger numbers of men are in the prison system, then that’s a supply of men who don’t count while they’re imprisoned. Mind you, in NYC, our prison population has declined. For some women, if your salary isn't above $125K, and your position isn't something that they can brag about, you're quite useless for them. Women have a tendency to avoid marrying downwards, and with increasing numbers of women in college and in professional fields, you're going to find that many of them will refuse to date the busdriver or mechanic. I have to disagree here. What women flock toward are not necessarily highly paid executive types, but studly Alpha Males. Men who are nerdy or unathletic are completely undesirable. Now, it's true that men who have high-paid jobs indeed often are Alphas, but there are exceptions, most notably the stereotypical IT professional. You can be under 30 and make (or inherit) good money, especially in NYC. Or you can have the appearance of it thanks to very liberal credit policies by our financial industry. I agree with you that studly Alpha males are grabbing most of the women, but said Alpha male better have money behind him, or at least several credit cards with $5,000+ limits. Quite simply, thanks to feminism, women now have the ability to outwait men. Previous generations of women have had to compromise and date the not so desirable guy in order to leave her parent’s house, have kids, and well basically support herself. Now, a woman can get her own credit, live alone, get a great paying job in most fields, and if she wants kids, an adoption agency or sperm bank is available to her. She’s no longer a spinster if she doesn’t marry or a disappointment if she’s a single mother. Quite simply, she doesn’t need the other guys, and if she can’t get the alpha man, well, she can still survive. Women can afford to choose men on the same basis that men have been choosing women for years, choosing based on superficial looks. I plan on getting a degree in Political Science and Urban Studies and working for the government and I’m not blowing my credit away for any woman. The only way I’m getting a g/f is if I move to Canada. |
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Re: There is no woman shortage; only open-minded guys |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Aug 20 01:31:41 2005, in response to Re: There is no woman shortage; only open-minded guys, posted by BrooklynQB on Fri Aug 19 08:03:43 2005. Ahhh.....NY.Hey Ron, do you think a funny, chubby, honest, and all-around good guy like me can swim in NY waters? No. Lose some weight, increase your bank account and spending habits, and maybe you'll have a chance. |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Sun Apr 20 17:41:48 2008, in response to Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Aug 18 10:42:53 2005. Wow! I guess google has some old threads! Talk about a THREAD BUMP! |
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Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 20 18:10:21 2008, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Sun Apr 20 17:41:48 2008. 
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Re: Still no proof of the Woman Shortage |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 20 18:29:22 2008, in response to Re: Still more proof of the Woman Shortage, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Sun Apr 20 17:41:48 2008. Give us a break, eh? |
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