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Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 18:29:13 2009

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Uh-oh. The liberal versus conservative war is back to its traditional setting, or is it? (This is but one of the issues splitting Williams' own church and is causing defections to the RCC. Even Elizabeth II's on the Pope's side in these matters, which means she's undermining the Act of Settlement over it.)

Reuters

Anglican head challenges Vatican over women clergy

Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:10pm EST
ROME (Reuters) — Roman Catholics should look beyond the divisive issue of ordaining women to see how much they share with the world's Anglicans and work toward greater Christian unity, the head of the Anglican Communion said on Thursday.

Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, whose own church is split over female priests and bishops, said the Vatican's ban on ordaining women was not as solidly grounded theologically as the core Christian doctrines the two denominations agree on.

His speech at a pontifical university in Rome came a month after Pope Benedict invited alienated Anglicans to join the Catholic Church, a move some Anglicans criticized as a bid to woo away those opposed to women bishops.

Several member churches of the 77-million strong worldwide Anglican Communion have women bishops — the Episcopal Church in the United States has a female head, Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori — and the Church of England is preparing to ordain them.

Williams said decades of Catholic-Anglican dialogue had achieved wide consensus on core Christian teachings and left only lesser issues of church organization and authority open.

"The question ... is whether this unfinished business is as fundamentally church-dividing as our Roman Catholic friends generally assume and maintain," he said.

"Do the arguments advanced about the 'essence' of male and female vocations and capacities stand on the same level as a theology derived more directly from scripture and (our) common theological heritage?"

Williams, in Rome to attend a conference on relations among Christian churches, is due to see Benedict on Saturday for their first meeting since the pope's offer to disaffected Anglicans.

Both sides have tried to present the offer as a normal step, but the Vatican's top ecumenical official, Cardinal Walter Kasper, last week revealed Williams had called him in the middle of the night for an explanation when he learned about the plan.

In his speech, Williams asked whether, since Catholics and Anglicans agreed so much on core theological doctrines, "is it really justifiable to treat other issues as equally vital?"

He said the Anglican Communion showed churches could stay together despite local differences. The Communion has come close to schism in recent years as conservatives, many in Africa, opposed liberal trends in churches in the West.

His argument seemed unlikely to convince the Vatican, which sees the disarray among Anglicans as proof that churches need clear doctrines and firm leadership.

(Reporting by Tom Heneghan; editing by Andrew Roche)

© Thomson Reuters 2009 All rights reserved

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Deaks on Fri Nov 20 05:25:28 2009, in response to Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 18:29:13 2009.

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How staggeringly interesting.

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Fred G on Fri Nov 20 05:29:12 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Deaks on Fri Nov 20 05:25:28 2009.

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I was expecting a Monty Python sketch.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Nov 20 07:23:56 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Deaks on Fri Nov 20 05:25:28 2009.

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Thanks. It's going to get more interesting, the more intertwined with politics it gets, too.

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Nov 20 07:25:22 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Fred G on Fri Nov 20 05:29:12 2009.

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You may not be disappointed.

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Nov 20 09:03:17 2009, in response to Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 18:29:13 2009.

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" Even Elizabeth II's on the Pope's side in these matters, which means she's undermining the Act of Settlement over it.)"

What is your source on that statement? did you have a conversation with the QUEEN??? lol over tea and biscuits?



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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Nov 20 09:33:07 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Nov 20 09:03:17 2009.

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What is your source on that statement? did you have a conversation with the QUEEN??? lol over tea and biscuits?

You're either not very smart or just lazy. You could have searched for my source, but here it is anyway.

Daily Telegraph (from October 3)

Queen 'appalled' at Church of England moves, claim Vatican moles

By Richard Eden
Published: 10:56PM BST 03 Oct 2009
When Pope Benedict visits this country next year, he is expected to stay at Buckingham Palace as a guest of the Queen. The warmth of her welcome will come as no surprise to the Pontiff, if senior sources at the Vatican are to be believed.

According to informants quoted in The Catholic Herald, the Queen has "grown increasingly sympathetic" to the Catholic Church over the years while being "appalled", along with the Prince of Wales, at developments in the Church of England.

The usually well-informed newspaper adds that the Queen, who is the Supreme Governor of the C of E, is "also said to have an affinity with the Holy Father, who is of her generation".

In July, The Sunday Telegraph disclosed that the Queen had told the heads of a traditionalist group, formed in response to the liberal direction of some parts of the Anglican Communion, that she "understood their concerns" about the future of the 80 million-strong global church.

One leading evangelical said: "We found the letters very supportive."

Her intervention was predicted to have surprised many because the group, called the Fellowship of Confessing Anglicans, was feared by some to be a divisive force and one of its senior figures was this accused of being homophobic.

The then Bishop of Rochester, Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, called on homosexuals to repent. He said the Church of England must stick to the Biblical teaching that marriage should only be between a man and a woman.

"We want to hold on to the traditional teaching of the Church," he said. "We don't want to be rolled over by culture and trends in the Church," said the bishop, who was one of the most senior religious figures in England.

A Buckingham Palace spokesman declines to comment.

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Nov 20 09:48:32 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Nov 20 09:33:07 2009.

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"You're either not very smart or just lazy."

Lol...I was thinking about you with that same thought...like why did Olag-hoi leave himself "open" like that...lol...look at that now...lol

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Nov 20 09:59:24 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Nov 20 09:48:32 2009.

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How did I leave myself open? You're very, very confused.

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Nov 20 10:10:41 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Nov 20 09:59:24 2009.

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"How did I leave myself open? You're very, very confused"

The "confusion" rests on you...sir....ask others...maybe they can better esplain it to you..since you are having such great difficulty.

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Deaks on Fri Nov 20 10:45:21 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Nov 20 07:23:56 2009.

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You're welcome. Anything that strokes your ego is fine by me.

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Nov 20 11:02:20 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Deaks on Fri Nov 20 10:45:21 2009.

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Why do I get the feeling that Olog-hai and Brian were somehow seperated at birth...lol

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Nov 20 12:59:55 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Nov 20 11:02:20 2009.

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I disagree. Olog-hai doesn't do ad hominum attacks. but Brian is the undisputed champion of ad hominum attacks.

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 20 13:13:50 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Nov 20 12:59:55 2009.

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haha, wrong again Dan Lawrence! You're almost always wrong.

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Deaks on Fri Nov 20 13:18:28 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Nov 20 13:13:50 2009.

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No Brian, you're the champion of them. Why do you think so many here dislike you?

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Nov 20 13:36:35 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Nov 20 12:59:55 2009.

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"I disagree. Olog-hai doesn't do ad hominum attacks."

So why is it that his ego tends to get in the way of him understanding what is being told to him at times?

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Nov 21 05:25:46 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Fred G on Fri Nov 20 05:29:12 2009.

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I was expecting a Monty Python sketch.

Here you go:



Although I was expecting something more like this:

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Nov 21 05:44:44 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Nov 20 12:59:55 2009.

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ad hominum attacks.

Towards of the men attacks? "Ad" takes the accusative, not the genitive. Or looking at it another way, "homo" is a third declension noun; there is no such word as "hominus".

So "argumentum ad hominem".

SingularPlural
Nominativehomohomines
Genitivehominishominum
Dativehominihominibus
Accusativehominemhomines
Ablativehominehominibus

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by Fred G on Sat Nov 21 06:04:17 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Nov 21 05:25:46 2009.

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Nobody expects Mendelssohn!

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests

Posted by SMAZ on Sat Nov 21 11:47:21 2009, in response to Re: Archbishop of Canterbury versus Pope Benedict XVI over Women Priests, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Nov 21 05:44:44 2009.

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stultorum calami carbones moenia chartae.

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